When did you decide to study STEM major in university? Tips for my daughter?

[Pdxwayne]

A good state university will provide the same education as the high priced spread.* She can be almost random in her major choices- it's a near guarantee that whatever she ends up doing will be only loosely related to what she started out doing.** However... whichever she chooses, go heavy on physics courses. No matter what one's scientific discipline, physics undergirds it, and understanding physics (and the consequent math) will give her a BIG advantage.

*I went to a tiny but good state school for undergrad, then a top 10 department for grad school followed by an Ivy League postdoc research and teaching position, so I saw both side of this.
**I went from a career goal of theoretical quantum chemistry (heavy physics) to an actual career in industrial chemistry, biology, electronics, wine, business operations... and about to make yet another career change.

Cool! Thanks for sharing! Wow, another career change?

 

[Pdxwayne]

but when she gets out she will be at the top of her field

some comments above remind me to tell you to tell her to find a faculty who is a woman for at least some informal advising

and BTW, you can add to or change advisors - she should spend time with multiple faculty; post-docs and grad. students can be helpful as well

all will be glued to their research, but a tenured faculty member will have more time (Associate or full Professor, not Assistant Professor)

Thanks for the tips!

 

[Pdxwayne]

This is what I did. I never had much loan debt, paid it all off while I was still working my way through school.

My recommendation is to look at bls.gov to see what people earn, and consider that as you go. You want to have good jobs waiting for you and you can figure out many paths to good jobs if you research labor markets a bit.

I knew I wanted to be a state wildlife biologist at age 14, got into a good program, and 3 years later I was earning more running a renovation crew in the summer than a person with a master degree earns as a state biologist.

I dropped out, got a full time job, and went back to study business a year after dropping out with my employer paying 100% to finish my BS and MBA.

Thanks for sharing. Yes, earning potential is another consideration.
Since she has no specific passion yet, might as well start with something with good earning potential...

 

[Pdxwayne]

A lot of places have spun off Environmental Engineering so it is now it's own discipline, and no longer under Civil. it has it's place, but what I see in everyday practice now is that many subdisciplines of Civil incorporate environmental into their work. You have to here in the US, as the building codes have a lot of requirements.

If you get into site development, a typical building site plan for DC now has many drawing sheets related to runoff, retention, etc. Pages and pages of calcs that used to be covered with a single sheet a few decades ago. It is much more technical than it used to be.

Just about anything you design has to earn LEED points, comply with energy and environmental codes, Energy-star, etc. In fact if you want to be a Civil and not need any environmental you are probably SOL. I think the 'real' Environmental Engineers are doing the big impact statements for heavy construction, new roads/ bridges, etc.

Construction is booming in the mid-Atlantic area. Hard to say when it will eventually correct. But when I go into construction trailer complexes on large jobs half of the construction engineers are women. It is no longer the realm of 6'-3" 285 lb men who direct the subcontractors mainly by physical intimidation. No more fist fights, throwing subs out the door, shouting matches, etc. And the construction engineering jobs are great for people who want office + outside time, and they pay very, very well in times when construction is really rolling. Construction Engineering, like Environmental, used to be a sub-discipline of Civil at many universities but has largely moved under the umbrella of the construction major. I have seen some places that provide dual majors so you get Civil - Construction Engineering degrees.

Interesting choices. Will let her know. Thanks!

 

[JuliaCoder]

I, overconfidently, thought I would succeed at Economics, Law, Politics, or Psychology. What turned me off was not seeing people in these fields accomplish things. I didn't want to just talk about changing the world. I wanted to do things that changed the world. In STEM you have a decent chance of that. Brilliant people in Social Sciences and Humanities do well for themselves but don't solve problems.

 

[mansr]

A good state university will provide the same education as the high priced spread.* She can be almost random in her major choices- it's a near guarantee that whatever she ends up doing will be only loosely related to what she started out doing.** However... whichever she chooses, go heavy on physics courses. No matter what one's scientific discipline, physics undergirds it, and understanding physics (and the consequent math) will give her a BIG advantage.

Good points. Maths and physics are useful whatever job you end up doing, and a solid understanding of the foundations helps moving between fields. Also for identifying snake oil.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I wanted to be an Engineer or a Vet because i was fascinated by how and why things work, both mechanical and animal. I went for engineering when my interest in motor racing began to exceed my interest in animals so knew by the age of 15 what I wanted to do then determinedly targeted achieving it.
Two of our 4 children knew what they wanted to do whilst still at school, the other two vacillated for some years until one of them decided on environmental science but was married with children before studying for his degree.
The third, who is a big hearted generous girl who has always been helpful and considerate ended up caring for homeless and old people so she will always be unfairly rewarded for her work.

 

[mohragk]

I don't know the system in the US, but in The Netherlands you have to pick a certain direction, or profile as they call it, for your last couple years of high school. When I went to school, they split it up in broadly "alpha" and "beta" which where then further subdivided. So alpha entailed more business, economics, statitistics in math, languages while Beta was more physics, algebreic mathematics, biology and less language oriented. I chose the beta side, and focused more on physics, math. Other beta students would pick a more biology side.

So after graduation, it was more natural to flow from a beta side to a STEM university. It would be weird to do a business school coming from a beta side, but of course not unfeasible. It just means you have to do some extra pre-schooling because you missed the material in high school.

This system has it's up- and downsides. Upside is that you can get more specialised and focused study material to prep for university. You also don't have to do stuff you're not interested in. Downside is that, well, what if you picked the wrong side? Or you simply don't have a clear preference? I still think it's a good system though. I knew I *didn't* want to have to learn French and German and hated economics, so a more physics and math oriented path I generally preferred.

I don't think many people who did a beta profile, eventually switched to a non-STEM school. What would happen is that while in uni, they simply would pick other minors than the more "pure engineer"-oriented folk.

Coming back to the original question, I think it's best she sort of "plays around" before comitting to a certain direction. Do some orientation, go to different schools, check out what's out there. You'd be surprised at what's available. Doing imagineering courses at Carnegie Mellon would've been my dream. But, since I'm not American I never came across anything like that.

Another thing is, life is not set in stone. It's suprisingly easy to do something else if you choose to do so.

 

[SIY]

Good points. Maths and physics are useful whatever job you end up doing, and a solid understanding of the foundations helps moving between fields. Also for identifying snake oil.

One other thing: business courses. I make sure that everyone in my research group can read a balance sheet, generate a cash-flow statement, and knows how to set up a P&L. Again, this is something that will put a tech person ahead of the pack of nerdy specialists competing with her or him.

 

[mansr]

One other thing: business courses. I make sure that everyone in my research group can read a balance sheet, generate a cash-flow statement, and knows how to set up a P&L. Again, this is something that will put a tech person ahead of the pack of nerdy specialists competing with her or him.

Well, I wouldn't want a job where I'd have to deal with those things. Then on the other hand, basic arithmetic is a good skill to have.

 

[SIY]

Well, I wouldn't want a job where I'd have to deal with those things.

That aversion is common among tech folks, which makes those skills a great advantage both in the job market and entrepreneurship.

 

[mansr]

That aversion is common among tech folks, which makes those skills a great advantage both in the job market and entrepreneurship.

I've never really experienced any competition.

 

[SIY]

I've never really experienced any competition.

Most of us have. And as you get older, the competition will be stiffer. An edge sure helps.

 

[mansr]

Most of us have. And as you get older, the competition will be stiffer. An edge sure helps.

I prefer to be really good at engineering.

 

[SIY]

I prefer to be really good at engineering.

And I’m really good at material science. But so are a lot of other people.

 

[mansr]

And I’m really good at material science. But so are a lot of other people.

The idea is to be among the best. There are, by definition, only a few of those people. I'd rather compete by being skilled at what I like to do than by being able to do things I'd rather not.

 

[Tks]

Some people get lucky and know what they want to do, and it ends up being a correct assumption (since preferences can shift even if expectations are met completely). While others aren't so lucky (simply don't know like your daughter it seems).

This whole schooling ordeal is quite simple to me. If you don't know what you want to do, but have the credentials, and prowess to chose between any of them - simply opt for whatever is financially most rewarding. Not knowing whether you like chem, bio, comp, math and such doesn't matter if all are something you're iffy on. At least if you drudge through something that pays well - you will always have enough wiggle room to pivot the moment you realize where you want to veer course.

Don't see why people need to make a bigger fuss than this. Now I know some people don't have the resume your daughter has, and don't know what they want to do on top of it.. But seeing as how she does have a shining resume, simply have a councilor find her information on the top three highest grossing professions she could stand to bare currently given her ignorance of the fields (ignorance of whether she will enjoy it or not). Let her find herself later then. If it happens to be too late, then so be it, but at least she'll have enough financial leeway to do what she wants to do in the future if such an instance presents itself.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Some people get lucky and know what they want to do, and it ends up being a correct assumption (since preferences can shift even if expectations are met completely). While others aren't so lucky (simply don't know like your daughter it seems).

This whole schooling ordeal is quite simple to me. If you don't know what you want to do, but have the credentials, and prowess to chose between any of them - simply opt for whatever is financially most rewarding. Not knowing whether you like chem, bio, comp, math and such doesn't matter if all are something you're iffy on. At least if you drudge through something that pays well - you will always have enough wiggle room to pivot the moment you realize where you want to veer course.

Don't see why people need to make a bigger fuss than this. Now I know some people don't have the resume your daughter has, and don't know what they want to do on top of it.. But seeing as how she does have a shining resume, simply have a councilor find her information on the top three highest grossing professions she could stand to bare currently given her ignorance of the fields (ignorance of whether she will enjoy it or not). Let her find herself later then. If it happens to be too late, then so be it, but at least she'll have enough financial leeway to do what she wants to do in the future if such an instance presents itself.

Thank you. Yes, like you said, since she doesn't know her passion yet, she is including earning potentials as a deciding factor.

 

[Pdxwayne]

I, overconfidently, thought I would succeed at Economics, Law, Politics, or Psychology. What turned me off was not seeing people in these fields accomplish things. I didn't want to just talk about changing the world. I wanted to do things that changed the world. In STEM you have a decent chance of that. Brilliant people in Social Sciences and Humanities do well for themselves but don't solve problems.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[Pdxwayne]

I wanted to be an Engineer or a Vet because i was fascinated by how and why things work, both mechanical and animal. I went for engineering when my interest in motor racing began to exceed my interest in animals so knew by the age of 15 what I wanted to do then determinedly targeted achieving it.
Two of our 4 children knew what they wanted to do whilst still at school, the other two vacillated for some years until one of them decided on environmental science but was married with children before studying for his degree.
The third, who is a big hearted generous girl who has always been helpful and considerate ended up caring for homeless and old people so she will always be unfairly rewarded for her work.

Thanks for sharing! Haha, half knew, half didn't, similar to my family.