Has the headphone stuff (headfi) becoming ridiculously expensive?

[WLVCA]

Then I hope Watchnerd gets the new version and has a much better experience than I did.

 

[bobbooo]

Then I hope Watchnerd gets the new version and has a much better experience than I did.

HifiMan have assured me that all the Pali Pads they're selling direct now are the latest versions. I would think the same is true for the Sundaras themselves as well.

 

[jerryfreak]

i still use the HD650 and ety er4ps i bought around 2002

my hearing hasnt gotten better in that time

 

[thewas]

I do. Around 2015, the companies made a series of flagship headphones like the LCD 3, LCD X, HD 800, etc all for $2000 or less, and those represented the pinacle of what could be achieved with headphone technology. Problem is, there also existed an entire market of headphone audiophools who believed that still more could be achieved by spending even more. Result is the $4-$5 k flagships which are no better than those $1-2k flagships from 2015. And of course there are still the fools who buy $5 k headphone amps, when spening even $650 for a Yulong is really an overspend.

And even back then the state of many flagships was a mess
The State of the Flagships
An Under-Engineered Mess
and things didn't really get better after the headphone boom..

 

[EJ3]

Yes, nowadays they use Beryllium which was not available in the 80's .....but is this tech innovation?

SHURE used Beryllium cantilevers for a few years starting in 1982 with these phono cartridges: The V15V came out in 1982. The V15V-MR came out in 1983 or 84 (depending on where the information comes from). They were not the first to do so. A number of others did also. But both the Technics and the SHURE ones became legendary. The manufacturing process safety issues at the time killed them. Today there are a # of Aluminum Beryllium is one of numerous metal alloys sold by American Elements under the trade name AE Alloys™. Generally immediately available in most volumes, AE Alloys™ are available as bar, ingot, ribbon, wire, shot, sheet, and foil. Ultra high purity and high purity forms also include metal powder, submicron powder and nanoscale, targets for thin film deposition, and pellets for chemical vapor deposition (CVD) and physical vapor deposition (PVD) applications. Also there are other's such as Copper beryllium, Nickel beryllium & beryllia ceramics.
Like you, I wonder about "where's the innovations that are effective?" (despite [or maybe because] of the fact that my hearing hasn't gotten any better over the years and exposure to excessive noise such as motorcycling, convertible cars, hot rods, unexpected gunfire inside a concrete room, idiots revving tractor trailer engines in a concrete floored 1 acre pole barn with a metal roof, etc.).

 

[KeithPhantom]

And even back then the state of many flagships was a mess
The State of the Flagships
An Under-Engineered Mess
and things didn't really get better after the headphone boom..

The only two reasons I can't keep a Senn 600 series are the bass quantity and bass distortion. >5% is something unacceptable to my ears and with bassy tracks, you can clearly hear the distortion. EQ, if done to actually "flatten" their bass response, you start hearing distortion. Then, you have the likes of Grado that "tune by ear", and you know how that measures.

Also, if you see the top-of-the-line dynamic headphones, they are either biodynamic or a sort of tweeter (compression driver/ring radiator for the HD 800 and the Focal line uses pretty much a design extremely similar to their speaker tweeters but smaller). Revolutionary designs with dynamic technology have diminished, focusing on other technologies such as planar magnetics.

 

[Jimbob54]

I mean aren't all the baller mobile head fi guys into DAPs?

I thought it was de rigeur for corded can wearing if you don't want to be laughed at for using a smart phone.

Just ordered a pair of Clear Pros in the Red/Black on Amazon. Should be here by Sunday, free return if I end up still liking the HD 800 better for some reason. Thanks for the recommendation.

You're in for a treat- mine arrived this morning.

 

[Jimbob54]

The planars make my ears hot, though.

I can't wear them for more than 1 hour comfortable.

The Senns are a little boring, but I can wear them forever.

I hope the Elex perform similarly to the Clears. Very nice headphones.

 

[KeithPhantom]

Report what you think about the Clears, I'm eager to know.

 

[valerianf]

Between the $5 headphone that you can buy in a plane and a $55.000 headphone there are many competitors.
It is up to everybody to chose a target price.
All of us do not drive a Rolls Royce...

 

[restorer-john]

Nah. Yamaha had beryllium tweeters back in the 70's.

I bet @restorer-john knows something that predates even that...

Yep, the NS-1000 Beryllium midranges and tweeters were 1974. And that's pure beryllium, vapor deposited.

 

[EJ3]

Yep, the NS-1000 Beryllium midranges and tweeters were 1974. And that's pure beryllium, vapor deposited.

I was mentioning things that I currently own. And I knew that there was earlier stuff. However I was completely unaware of these mid-ranges & tweeters. My point was that now beryllium and alloys of it are available more than it ever was but there is a dearth of innovation and a lot of "they are doing it, so should we" thinking.

 

[KeithPhantom]

I was mentioning things that I currently own. And I knew that there was earlier stuff. However I was completely unaware of these mid-ranges & tweeters. My point was that now beryllium and alloys of it are available more than it ever was but there is a dearth of innovation and a lot of "they are doing it, so should we" thinking.

For me materials do not innovate unless they are used to better a characteristic of a headphone. If you can achieve the same with paper, beryllium just doesn't make sense. It isn't the material, it's the implementation and results what matters.

 

[EJ3]

For me materials do not innovate unless they are used to better a characteristic of a headphone. If you can achieve the same with paper, beryllium just doesn't make sense. It isn't the material, it's the implementation and results what matters.

I agree: innovation should make it lighter/have better sonics/be more efficient/ less expensive or something else that using said material does better than another material.

 

[restorer-john]

If you can achieve the same with paper, beryllium just doesn't make sense. It isn't the material, it's the implementation and results what matters.

In the case of the Yamaha NS-1000Ms, the beryllium midrange is arguably one of the finest midranges ever built. But I agree, just using an exotic material for the sake of it is silly.

 

[EJ3]

And even back then the state of many flagships was a mess
The State of the Flagships
An Under-Engineered Mess
and things didn't really get better after the headphone boom..

And then "good to great" wireless ones are an additional challenge (I personally will not be corded). I also am not doing "critical" listening if I am wearing headphones. It is because I want to do one (or both) of two things: not disturb others and be able to move around while using my hands.
Therefore the headphones don't need to be "Flagship" but do need to be better than "low end". Having lived year round on ships for 18 years I found that using the SENNHEISER TR180 worked for me. Now that I am in a quieter (still not quiet) environment I aspire something better for this purpose.

 

[Jimbob54]

And then "good to great" wireless ones are an additional challenge (I personally will not be corded). I also am not doing "critical" listening if I am wearing headphones. It is because I want to do one (or both) of two things: not disturb others and be able to move around while using my hands.
Therefore the headphones don't need to be "Flagship" but do need to be better than "low end". Having lived year round on ships for 18 years I found that using the SENNHEISER TR180 worked for me. Now that I am in a quieter (still not quiet) environment I aspire something better for this purpose.

By all accounts the Drop THX Panda might be worth looking at.

 

[EJ3]

By all accounts the Drop THX Panda might be worth looking at.

Thank you. At the moment I am too busy (selling a car in Guam, having another one shipped to my home here from Guam, getting my wife from Guam to here, getting my renters out of here when their lease ends at the end of the year, remodeling the place so that my wife & I can move into it, etc [it still has windows that you use a small hand crank to open the window slats {similar to blinds}]). I suspect that it will be next summer before I am seriously looking for new wireless head phones. But I will check those out tonight. Who knows? Maybe something in my budget can go to that cause before then.

 

[watchnerd]

I haven't seen much chatter about AKG's entries into the $1000+ headphone club.

K812

K872

Okay, they're actually $1500.

Given AKG is part of Harman, did we get spins?

 

[Jimbob54]

I haven't seen much chatter about AKG's entries into the $1000+ headphone club.

K812

K872

Okay, they're actually $1500.

Given AKG is part of Harman, did we get spins?

They don't get reviewed well. By all accounts terribly overpriced.