Looking for a competent ABX tool for Windows

[fas42]

In another ABX related thread here the concept of the ABX extension to foobar2000 was raised, by me, as being unsatisfactory for serious use, for various technical reasons - as well as subjectively being inadequate. I'm genuinely interested in finding a tool that works as well as such a mechanism should operate - I have just now downloaded a fairly recently uploaded version of a cross platform utility, http://lacinato.com/cm/software/othersoft/abx, and tried it - unfortunately, it also fails the subjective quality test: playing an orchestral WAV file on my laptop hard drive, under the same conditions as my preferred player MediaMonkey runs in, the sound degradation is quite severe - poor treble, and blurring of detail in complex passages - there are no options to improve this software's behaviour.

So, I'm on the lookout for software that will be the job properly - any ideas ...

 

[Sal1950]

Been smokin that formaldehyde in your crack pipe again hey Frank?

 

[fas42]

Now, now, Sal, play nice - I have control here ...

 

[FrantzM]

fas42

Let's assume you're correct. Then you should be able to discern the differences between the original signal and the converted/reformatted/mangled one? Right? If you can't, then your concerns are completely irrelevant since the process is transparent to you.

 

[ceedee]

poor treble, and blurring of detail in complex passages

Frank, are you suggesting they have implemented DSP inside this ABX comparator, in order to screw with the signal? Why would they do that?

Otherwise, there's really no way to screw up playing a wav file. Either it plays correctly or you should hear some massive errors like skipping or silence.

Maybe you can record the output of your laptop playing a short clip, once with the ABX software and once more with your preferred software.

 

[amirm]

I have used lacinto ABX software. Here is what I wrote about it a while back:

---

Now that you know the right feature set you can do your own search and find the right tool. Look at their UI and see if they have the features I was talking about. Here is a good example of a free tool that covers a lot of the bases that Foobar ABX does not: http://lacinato.com/cm/software/othersoft/abx.

External image, click to view at original size

Right away you see the Loop button as highlighted in the above sample screenshot. If you use the tool you will see that the sliders work without having to play anything. Better yet, there are two of them so you can position them closely to each other. In Foobar, the slider handle is thick and there is only one of it. This means that if you place the start and stop at say one second apart, you can't even tell that you have done that! They handle covers that short start-stop blue line.

Notice the ability to set gains as to equalize volumes if necessary.

The "offset" comes in handy for your track specifically. You have that deafening tone at the beginning which you need to skip over. And this lets you do that.

Is it perfect? No. It uses Java runtime and while it says it doesn't need a separate download, it asked me to do exactly that. The link at Oracle downloads version 1.7 and the tool wants 1.8. Good luck finding that version on Oracle site. But you can find it and once there the program runs without any installations. Simply double click on the .exe and it runs.

As much as I despise Java, in this case it does enable cross platform ability from Linux to Mac.

Another miss is not being able to enter the timecode directly instead of using the sliders.

And the best part is that I don't have to look at the silly mask of an alien in my task bar from Foobar.

 

[ceedee]

And the best part is that I don't have to look at the silly mask of an alien in my task bar from Foobar.

You can say that again!

I hate Java too but I'll have to check this tool out.

 

[fas42]

Frank, are you suggesting they have implemented DSP inside this ABX comparator, in order to screw with the signal? Why would they do that?

Otherwise, there's really no way to screw up playing a wav file. Either it plays correctly or you should hear some massive errors like skipping or silence.

Maybe you can record the output of your laptop playing a short clip, once with the ABX software and once more with your preferred software.

No, they haven't done that - Lacinto is using the native, default OS audio playing software as far as I can tell, with no options to adjust this. Standard foobar, and other normal media players on my laptop - and this was also the case on the previous desktop I was using - don't have enough options to alter their behaviour to optimise playback for a particular hardware setup; on that desktop it just happened that an old, simple version of Nero did the best job of playback. Of course, all DSP and FR fiddling is switched off for all these players.

I tried various players on my laptop - it turned out that MediaMonkey allowed adjustments of buffering, etc, which give optimum results, in this specific environment. The amusing side note to this all, is that this laptop was upgraded to Windows 8.1, not by me, and the video driver is not bug free - every now and again it freezes, completely at random, and I then use a combination of key strokes, reinserting of plugs, to finally "unstick" the driver. I have attempted to try to correct this by getting the latest release, but no joy ... anyway, at random, this same glitch causes the audio to burble in fast repeat momentarily, but it happens rarely enough not to bother me.

To me, the ideal ABX tool should drive one's preferred player with a "remote control" - something like an interface macro recorder tool. Then, one could try comparing two different software players in an ABX fashion.

 

[NorthSky]

Hi Frank,
I decided to google around for what you're looking for, but not much than what you have already discovered...Lacinato.

• http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2014/07/30/a-new-abx-tool/
• https://www.gearslutz.com/board/pro...hs/920300-new-abx-blind-testing-software.html
• http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue56/abx.htm
• Test: http://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_index.php
• http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=ABX
• https://theproaudiofiles.com/audio-perception-and-abx-testing/
• http://www.head-fi.org/t/431522/abx-test-of-320kbps-vs-flac-results

 

[fas42]

Bob, thanks for doing that - if I was more motivated I would have a go at putting some software together myself - that's what I used to do for a living - but these days, like you , I'm living in the now - let some young whippersnapper whip something up, ...

 

[NorthSky]

Yeah, I understand. I don't make a living anymore...I live life for today, pretty much basically, 99%.
It's good for the brain, less stressful and more rewarding all around.
Plus I can communicate with people like you, living in other parts of our world, and share few for knowledge and pleasure.
...Like discovering on how to live in harmony with myself first, and with the rest.

* ABX testing would be a great tool in our audio advancement. So this is is an important audio subject.

 

[Sal1950]

As much as I despise Java, in this case it does enable cross platform ability from Linux to Mac.

Yep, same for REW. It nice that it "just works".

 

[dallasjustice]

Jriver 22 will have an ABX tool soon.

 

[amirm]

Ah, that is good news.

 

[fas42]

Amusing bit I came across just yesterday - Max Headroom, Dan, on diyAudio "discovered" the foobar ABX problem, except he got somewhat more worked up about it than I did - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/loun...ch-preamplifier-part-ii-8612.html#post4796397. It's a shame that no-one has done anything yet to improve things - what does that say about people's hearing?

 

[amirm]

Amusing bit I came across just yesterday - Max Headroom, Dan, on diyAudio "discovered" the foobar ABX problem, except he got somewhat more worked up about it than I did - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/loun...ch-preamplifier-part-ii-8612.html#post4796397. It's a shame that no-one has done anything yet to improve things - what does that say about people's hearing?

It says that Max Headroom doesn't understand what bias means. Of course the ABX plug in can sound different to him. That is the nature of ad-hoc subjective testing. You can imagine differences that are not there.

Have someone test him blind and then we can tell. All he has to do is let someone play the same track inside and outside of the Foobar ABX a few times in a row. If it sounds as different as he says, he should get a score of 100%. I am confident he will fail miserably but it is easy enough to try and confirm.

 

[fas42]

Of course he can test it this way, the interesting thing was that he "discovered" the issue without any particular expectations, as I did. I hadn't read anything positive or negative about the tool, just started to use it, and immediately noted the loss of quality in the ABX work version of the track. In MP3 terms, , it was like dropping from 32o down to 128kbps - which we all know is inaudible ...

 

[Blumlein 88]

Max Headroom can test it that way, but I won't accept his results as meaning anything. Just more imaginary audiophillia.

 

[fas42]

In case I confused anyone, I meant that Max could test it blind, as Amir suggested, to confirm his findings.

 

[ceedee]

the interesting thing was that he "discovered" the issue

Why? Believers "discovering" reasons to invalidate ABX tests is hardly unexpected or interesting.