• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Why do you think a few members have an 'alcoholic anonymous' vibe towards the audiophile community? It seems a harmless hobby as far as things go?

Victor Martell

Active Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
200
Likes
232
All true - but with pretty much all of those things, and what we pour into other hobbies, we are not lied to about what we are getting for our money.

If the high end sellers of "High end" audio jewellery were simply honest and said "well it sounds the same, but look at the aesthetics, feel how much it weighs, and think of the cred you'll get from your mates" then none of us would have a problem.
True too - but some of those comments you quoted were posted in the in the context of ASRers, specially ASRers looking down on those ASRers that like vinyl (see thread called "explain the vinyl renaissance" ), so who knows? context is important, as it is point of view and environment. Sure, we have the ASRers raining abuse and putting ASRers that like vinyl on the same bag as subjective audiophiles. BUT there has to be a situation where even the more science-y and truly qualified ASRer gets called out for not realizing that iPhone + Airpods is enough! :D
 

rdenney

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
2,294
Likes
4,026
To one watch 'expert' I spoke to once, Rolex is regarded by them the same way as B&O may be to us - expensive name but not really that 'wonderful' inside in the company of some almost hideously complex mechanical marvels that almost nobody except the makers could reliably service (I agree that B&O have done some very interesting things with their speakers, but why don't more audiophiles use them as I gather they're seriously good?)
Rolex is such a ubiquitous brand that it's the one watch nuts either love or hate. But here's what industry leaders often say about them--leaders who run companies that make much more expensive watches than Rolex... "How do they make such good watches for so cheap?" It's hard to imagine that statement being made about steel watches now priced into the five figures, but that statement was made back when they were still in the four figures. But still...

But Rolexes are very solidly made with robust designs that work well and are highly serviceable. They maintain some of the best timekeeping for traditional designs of anyone in the industry. Omega also has their METAS standard, which is similar. And companies that have specialized in accuracy, like Ulysse Nardin and Zenith, also have high accuracy standards for at least some of their watches.

Rolex don't change their movements very often and they maintain a strong service network--probably the best in the industry in that regard. As a company they are ruthless in some aspects (like most successful enterprises) but on the other hand the portion of the company that is owned by the Wilsdorf Foundation (which was created by the founder of Rolex before he died in the middle of the last century) is a board-run charitable non-profit. It's an interesting company with an interesting history. Where knowledgeable collectors push back on them is that the common view is that they are the best, most expensive watch in the world. That's just not so--they are a very nicely made mid-range luxury watch.

In comparison with audio products, they remind me of McIntosh, as founded by Frank McIntosh and as superbly managed by Gordon Gow. Imagine that Mr. McIntosh set up a foundation legally obligated to sustain his values for good engineering and also premium construction and aesthetics, preventing it from being bought and sold and subjected to alternative philosophies. Then, imagine an amazing ability to sustain brilliant marketing and product support through a succession of top executives. McIntosh hasn't been able to do that, but Rolex has been much better at it. The McIntosh of the 70's and 80's was positioned in the market similarly to Rolex. There were companies making higher-end stuff chasing landed-gentry dollars rather than successful-businesspeople dollars, if that makes any sense, in both audio and in watches. Maybe Mercedes is a good comparison brand, though watch people despise automotive comparisons for good reason.

So, not at all like B&O, which is as much about aesthetic minimalist design as supposed sound quality. Rolex has never made minimalist products by any possible meaning of that term. B&O would be more like, oh, say Rado, if I had to name a company with that reputation for aesthetic design and market target.

Rick "who does not own a Rolex, but who does own some of its direct competitors" Denney
 
Last edited:

KellenVancouver

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
869
Likes
6,184
1706303679941.png
 

RayDunzl

Grand Contributor
Central Scrutinizer
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
13,254
Likes
17,238
Location
Riverview FL
Although Facebook has a real-name policy, do you believe that any adroit scammer can't bypass this?

I've never been called adroit, that I know of...

I think I registered this one around their IPO time, when they were bragging about getting rid of fake accounts.


This one is older but I forgot the login.

 

Vacceo

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
2,703
Likes
2,859
Gaming is more mainstream than audiophilia. A good gaming rig costs more than a good hifi system if you follow ASR recommendations and people spend grossly inflated prices during shortages like the GPU shortage. They also have to be updated regularly unlike a stereo.

It would be interesting to do a survey on how much the average 'woo' audiophiles spend. Steve Guttenberg is one of the main influencers in the online 'woo' side of audiophilia. Some of his viewers' systems are in the $3000 range on the used market. That's not much money as one-time expenses for people in industrialized countries. They express varying degrees of individuality. Their systems are a kind of self-expression.



Just it might not be easy to find many ones which are less dangerous if you look at it on balance. Knitting is probably less harmful than audiophilia. They both have the main danger of encouraging physical inactivity. Knitting doesn't encourage big spending. Just it often uses wool which has potential environmental and ethical costs.
Yet, you don't see the amount of subjective crap in gaming as you see in audio reproduction. FPS, nits, loading times, latency and so on are universally understood and the elements provided to evaluate rigs.

I personally think that audio classics may start looking at the gaming market, because in AVR's they'll advertise when the product is capable of passing ALLM signals or 120 fps...

Indeed... not sure if there's anything to it, but it does SEEM like engineers operating outside of their fields are easily trapped in extreme, silly beliefs. Supposedly a lot of suicide bombers/terrorists are engineers. At my University, there was a tenured professor of engineering who was also a prominent Holocaust denier. I guess it goes to show that engineering skill is not based on having a firm and all-encompassing grasp on the scientific method...
Adorno and Horkeheimer gave that apparent paradox a very classy name: instrumental reason. Their case of application tried to explain the paradox of something as irrational as the Soha being performed by industrial production logic and how both ways of thinking clash.
 
Last edited:

MattHooper

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
7,433
Likes
12,502
Anecdote: My wife likes the sound of bad vinyl playback. We had our TT connected to an old HK receiver with a phono stage of unknown quality and the same goes for the tone controls on that thing. The speakers were some B&W 602s placed very poorly, sideways, and one of the tweeters has a dent in it.

In the new place I connected our TT to a Schiit Mani 2, through to LS60s, which are at least better placed. Her immediate reaction was that it sounded too clean, "almost digital", she said, not as a compliment. She says she likes the "cozy", noisy sound of vinyl sometimes.

There's a long thread, "Do we crave distortion" with lots of discussion - but the answer in many cases is simply yes. That, and high noise and bad FR, too. Consider the possibility that "lo-fi" is more often touted as a feature than a bug, when people even use the term.

That's why I think there will always be a place for distortion in the lives of some audiophiles. We've had essentially transparent sources and amps for a long time now, we've heard it, and sometimes we still like a little something extra.
 

Anton D

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Mar 17, 2021
Messages
916
Likes
1,052
Rolex is such a ubiquitous brand that it's the one watch nuts either love or hate. But here's what industry leaders often say about them--leaders who run companies that make much more expensive watches than Rolex... "How do they make such good watches for so cheap?" It's hard to imagine that statement being made about steel watches now priced into the five figures, but that statement was made back when they were still in the four figures. But still...

But Rolexes are very solidly made with robust designs that work well and are highly serviceable. They maintain some of the best timekeeping for traditional designs of anyone in the industry. Omega also has their METAS standard, which is similar. And companies that have specialized in accuracy, like Ulysse Nardin and Zenith, also have high accuracy standards for at least some of their watches.

Rolex don't change their movements very often and they maintain a strong service network--probably the best in the industry in that regard. As a company they are ruthless in some aspects (like most successful enterprises) but on the other hand the portion of the company that is owned by the Wilsdorf Foundation (which was created by the founder of Rolex before he died in the middle of the last century) is a board-run charitable non-profit. It's an interesting company with an interesting history. Where knowledgeable collectors push back on them is that the common view is that they are the best, most expensive watch in the world. That's just not so--they are a very nicely made mid-range luxury watch.

In comparison with audio products, they remind me of McIntosh, as found by Frank McIntosh and as superbly managed by Gordon Gow. Imaging that Mr. McIntosh set up a foundation legally obligated to sustain his values for good engineering and also premium construction and aesthetics, preventing it from being bought and sold and subjected to alternative philosophies. Then, imaging an amazing ability to sustain brilliant marketing and product support through a succession of top executives. McIntosh hasn't been able to do that, but Rolex has been much better at it. The McIntosh of the 70's and 80's was positioned in the market similarly to Rolex. There were companies making higher-end stuff chasing landed-gentry dollars rather than successful-businesspeople dollars, if that makes any sense, in both audio and in watches. Maybe Mercedes is a good comparison brand, though watch people despise automotive comparisons for good reason.

So, not at all like B&O, which is as much about aesthetic minimalist design as supposed sound quality. Rolex has never made minimalist products by any possible meaning of that term. B&O would be more like, oh, say Rado, if I had to name a company with that reputation for aesthetic design and market target.

Rick "who does not own a Rolex, but who does own some of its direct competitors" Denney
I wonder if the Rolex forum member have tales of when their chronometric gear really wowed them.

"There was this one instance where my Rolex just told the shit out of time, it really made me appreciate luxury chronometric devices. It's like I never really KNEW the time up until then, ya know? I mean, I always knew what time it was, but I didn't GET what time it was."

With Hi Fi gear, even the vapor gear lovers can point to an experience and say, "The swell of the instruments as Beethoven's 6th got moving really had me glued to my chair. It felt like I was transported to another place. A very enjoyable listen."


I'm giving the edge to audio gear on this, no matter how you may prefer it be delivered.

Regarding gaming, keyboard aficionados practically keep Dropdotcom alive!
 

Vacceo

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
2,703
Likes
2,859
That's why I think there will always be a place for distortion in the lives of some audiophiles. We've had essentially transparent sources and amps for a long time now, we've heard it, and sometimes we still like a little something extra.
What would be of us metalheads, without distortion??? ;)
 

rdenney

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
2,294
Likes
4,026
Ok that kinda jives with what I assumed. I assume this varies among watch fanatics but: do watch hobbyists care about accuracy in their watch at all? I mean, I can't imagine an expensive watch would be inaccurate enough to be worthless as an actual time piece, and so any deviations would be extremely minor. But it's part of being an enthusiast to care about the small details, and I'd expect accuracy would be one of those little details is that right?

Total speculation, but I'm imagining that like audio there will be a spectrum where watch accuracy is seen as an obvious virtue and one to be persued, whereas others are in the 'don't care much that it's super accurate, just like the design and looks.' Would that guess be correct?
Watch enthusiasts are not monolithic. Some are accuracy freaks, but those are not the ones shopping for mechanical watches. They are more interested in high-accuracy quartz watches that can still be quite expensive. Grand Seiko Spring Drive models, for example, use quartz timing, but the timing circuit is powered by the dynamo action of a mechanical spring spinning the timing wheel, and the circuit then applies braking eddy currents electromagnetically to that same spinning wheel to regulate it. So it is wound like a mechanical watch and needs no battery or other storage of electrical power, but is still electronically regulated with a thermally compensated quartz circuit. High-accuracy quarts watches achieve 10-15 seconds a year accuracy, but they have to be thermally compensated to do that. I have a Certina DS2 split-seconds chronograph powered by a high-accuracy quartz movement. It was not expensive by the usual watches standards (hundreds, not thousands), and it is accurate to 10-15 seconds a year also.

Other priorities vary widely. Some are into divers, and are attracted to watches tested to pressures vastly higher than could find use in any practical application. I have an Ebel that is tested to 500 meters, which is ridiculous, but really not that special for deep divers, some of which will withstand pressures to over a thousand meters of depth.

Still others are into precious metals, or watches like those used by movie stars, or watches from companies with deep history (though this is one area of deception in the watch biz--many company histories are about companies that ceased to exist and were revived as brands by companies unrelated to the originals), or watches with particularly highly respected movements, or watches with highly complicated features, or watches crafted by hand by a few rock-star makers, and on and on. Generally, though, people know what they are buying.

My own interests vary, too. I have a large collection of Ebel watches, old and more recent, because the history of the company became a research hobby of mine. Frank Dernie owns an Ebel watch given to him by Keke Rossberg, which is exceptionally cool. I own the same model, but mine doesn't have the same history. That model uses a chronograph movement by the Zenith watch company, which is one of the few that is still in business in their original factory. I own a couple of Zeniths, some upper-range Concords, a Ulysse Nardin chronometer of exceptional quality and accuracy (by mechanical standards), and watches by a dozen other brands ranging from Seiko to Longines. The value of mine range from Seiko 5 cheapies up to Rolex levels, but higher than that I cannot countenance. And even the good ones I have in that range were not that expensive--I'm attracted to unique buying opportunities, and that more than anything is why I don't own a Rolex. Rolex buyers and collectors have lost their minds. :)

But most watch people think of accuracy as a requirement, not a feature. If it's accurate enough, it's accurate enough. This week I'm wearing an Eterna Madison, which uses an Eterna-made rectangular hand-wind movement that really is lovely to look at. I put the watch on last week, and I've wound it every day but haven't reset the time, and it's at this moment still on the correct minute. That's more than good enough for me.

To pass Swiss requirements to be labeled a chronometer (which requires every watch to be so tested by the Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres), a watch is tested in five positions and a wide temperature range, and must run 24 hours in each position, losing no more than four seconds and gaining no more than six seconds during that period. The testing takes weeks for each movement, but that's what it takes for a Swiss company to be able to put "Chronometer" on the dial of the watch containing that particular movement. I own perhaps a 8 or 10 watches so certified. Rolex is a company that certified every single watch it sells, and of COSC's three testing facilities in Switzerland, one is devoted just to Rolex watches. But then Rolex makes a million watches a year, or something like that. But a chronometer is expected to run within two minutes a month. Zodiac, back in the late 60's, famously guaranteed their watches to run within "a minute a month", which is, on average, two seconds a day, to give all that some perspective. Common quartz movements are generally expected to be accurate to 15 seconds a month.

But high-end watches have other measures, too. What does the anglage look like under a 20X loop? Is it fully polished to a mirror reflection? Is it precisely even in width? Anglage is the chamfering of the plates and bridges in a watch, and that feature might--might--be as much as 0.1mm wide. It takes a 20x loupe to appreciate it when it is done well. This is like admiring custom jewelry or the brush technique of a great artist, and that's what enthusiasts in the deep end are looking for. There are some published standards for that sort of construction, such as the Geneva Seal, for example.

Rick "doesn't have to keep his best audio stuff in a safe" Denney
 
Last edited:

kemmler3D

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 25, 2022
Messages
3,483
Likes
7,101
Location
San Francisco
Regarding gaming, keyboard aficionados practically keep Dropdotcom alive!
Collecting keyboards / keycaps and gaming have about as much in common as collecting baseball cards and playing baseball. And, for what it's worth, the performance and experience aspects of mechanical keyboards are also well-quantified. You can find the force/distance curves for a lot of keycaps, the SPL of the click is often measured, etc. Aside from that it's a sheerly aesthetic pursuit, so back to the watch analogy, mostly. :)
 

rdenney

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
2,294
Likes
4,026
I wonder if the Rolex forum member have tales of when their chronometric gear really wowed them.

"There was this one instance where my Rolex just told the shit out of time, it really made me appreciate luxury chronometric devices. It's like I never really KNEW the time up until then, ya know? I mean, I always knew what time it was, but I didn't GET what time it was."

With Hi Fi gear, even the vapor gear lovers can point to an experience and say, "The swell of the instruments as Beethoven's 6th got moving really had me glued to my chair. It felt like I was transported to another place. A very enjoyable listen."


I'm giving the edge to audio gear on this, no matter how you may prefer it be delivered.

Regarding gaming, keyboard aficionados practically keep Dropdotcom alive!
You're right. Watch lovers look at watches and think, "I wonder if wearing this would get me laid."

Rick "well, except for me, of course" Denney
 

DSJR

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Messages
3,464
Likes
4,625
Location
Suffolk Coastal, UK
Rolex is such a ubiquitous brand that it's the one watch nuts either love or hate. But here's what industry leaders often say about them--leaders who run companies that make much more expensive watches than Rolex... "How do they make such good watches for so cheap?" It's hard to imagine that statement being made about steel watches now priced into the five figures, but that statement was made back when they were still in the four figures. But still...

But Rolexes are very solidly made with robust designs that work well and are highly serviceable. They maintain some of the best timekeeping for traditional designs of anyone in the industry. Omega also has their METAS standard, which is similar. And companies that have specialized in accuracy, like Ulysse Nardin and Zenith, also have high accuracy standards for at least some of their watches.

Rolex don't change their movements very often and they maintain a strong service network--probably the best in the industry in that regard. As a company they are ruthless in some aspects (like most successful enterprises) but on the other hand the portion of the company that is owned by the Wilsdorf Foundation (which was created by the founder of Rolex before he died in the middle of the last century) is a board-run charitable non-profit. It's an interesting company with an interesting history. Where knowledgeable collectors push back on them is that the common view is that they are the best, most expensive watch in the world. That's just not so--they are a very nicely made mid-range luxury watch.

In comparison with audio products, they remind me of McIntosh, as found by Frank McIntosh and as superbly managed by Gordon Gow. Imaging that Mr. McIntosh set up a foundation legally obligated to sustain his values for good engineering and also premium construction and aesthetics, preventing it from being bought and sold and subjected to alternative philosophies. Then, imaging an amazing ability to sustain brilliant marketing and product support through a succession of top executives. McIntosh hasn't been able to do that, but Rolex has been much better at it. The McIntosh of the 70's and 80's was positioned in the market similarly to Rolex. There were companies making higher-end stuff chasing landed-gentry dollars rather than successful-businesspeople dollars, if that makes any sense, in both audio and in watches. Maybe Mercedes is a good comparison brand, though watch people despise automotive comparisons for good reason.

So, not at all like B&O, which is as much about aesthetic minimalist design as supposed sound quality. Rolex has never made minimalist products by any possible meaning of that term. B&O would be more like, oh, say Rado, if I had to name a company with that reputation for aesthetic design and market target.

Rick "who does not own a Rolex, but who does own some of its direct competitors" Denney
How much B&O have you *heard music through* though? Some of the 90's gear they made was exceedingly capable in client's homes, not that the latter cared overmuch in the UK home counties as the visuals, multi-room back then and remote functions ruled. They didn't always get it right, but when they did, I felt it was very good indeed and the Beolab 4000's and 6000's in good irder used are cheap actives (RCA sockets to use with non B&O sources) really appeal as these |Harbeths just sit and glower at me unused currently for no reason to do with them... The lack of bass makes them work in or near corners and that may be necessary in a future living room...
 

MattHooper

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
7,433
Likes
12,502
Ha! I dared ask a watch enthusiast a question about watches :)

(Reminds me of when watches come up among my watch enthusiast friends...I'll get the full story to be sure).

I do appreciate the detail and the insight in to the watch enthusiast world. All the distinctions you laid out are interesting.

Watch enthusiasts are not monolithic. Some are accuracy freaks, but those are not the ones shopping for mechanical watches. They are more interested in high-accuracy quartz watches that can still be quite expensive. Grand Seiko Spring Drive models, for example, use quartz timing, but the timing circuit is powered by the dynamo action of a mechanical spring spinning the timing wheel, and the circuit then applies braking eddy currents electromagnetically to that same spinning wheel to regulate it. So it is wound like a mechanical watch and needs no battery or other storage of electrical power, but is still electronically regulated with a thermally compensated quartz circuit. High-accuracy quarts watches achieve 10-15 seconds a year accuracy, but they have to be thermally compensated to do that. I have a Certina DS2 split-seconds chronograph powered by a high-accuracy quartz movement. It was not expensive by the usual watches standards (hundreds, not thousands), and it is accurate to 10-15 seconds a year also.

Other priorities vary widely. Some are into divers, and are attracted to watches tested to pressures vastly higher than could find use in any practical application. I have an Ebel that is tested to 500 meters, which is ridiculous, but really not that special for deep divers, some of which will withstand pressures to over a thousand meters of depth.

Still others are into precious metals, or watches like those used by movie stars, or watches from companies with deep history (though this is one area of deception in the watch biz--many company histories are about companies that ceased to exist and were revived as brands by companies unrelated to the originals), or watches with particularly highly respected movements, or watches with highly complicated features, or watches crafted by hand by a few rock-star makers, and on and on. Generally, though, people know what they are buying.

My own interests vary, too. I have a large collection of Ebel watches, old and more recent, because the history of the company became a research hobby of mine. Frank Dernie owns an Ebel watch given to him by Keke Rossberg, which is exceptionally cool. I own the same model, but mine doesn't have the same history. That model uses a chronograph movement by the Zenith watch company, which is one of the few that is still in business in their original factory. I own a couple of Zeniths, some upper-range Concords, a Ulysse Nardin chronometer of exceptional quality and accuracy (by mechanical standards), and watches by a dozen other brands ranging from Seiko to Longines. The value of mine range from Seiko 5 cheapies up to Rolex levels, but higher than that I cannot countenance. And even the good ones I have in that range were not that expensive--I'm attracted to unique buying opportunities, and that more than anything is why I don't own a Rolex. Rolex buyers and collectors have lost their minds. :)

But most watch people think of accuracy as a requirement, not a feature. If it's accurate enough, it's accurate enough. This week I'm wearing an Eterna Madison, which uses an Eterna-made rectangular hand-wind movement that really is lovely to look at. I put the watch on last week, and I've wound it every day but haven't reset the time, and it's at this moment still on the correct minute. That's more than good enough for me.

To pass Swiss requirements to be labeled a chronometer (which requires every watch to be so tested by the Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres), a watch is tested in five positions and a wide temperature range, and must run 24 hours in each position, losing no more than four seconds and gaining no more than six seconds during that period. The testing takes weeks for each movement, but that's what it takes for a Swiss company to be able to put "Chronometer" on the dial of the watch containing that particular movement. I own perhaps a 8 or 10 watches so certified. Rolex is a company that certified every single watch it sells, and of COSC's three testing facilities in Switzerland, one is devoted just to Rolex watches. But then Rolex makes a million watches a year, or something like that. But a chronometer is expected to run within two minutes a month. Zodiac, back in the late 60's, famously guaranteed their watches to run within "a minute a month", which is, on average, two seconds a day, to give all that some perspective. Common quartz movements are generally expected to be accurate to 15 seconds a month.

But high-end watches have other measures, too. What does the anglage look like under a 20X loop? Is it fully polished to a mirror reflection? Is it precisely even in width? Anglage is the chamfering of the plates and bridges in a watch, and that feature might--might--be as much as 0.1mm wide. It takes a 20x loupe to appreciate it when it is done well. This is like admiring custom jewelry or the brush technique of a great artist, and that's what enthusiasts in the deep end are looking for. There are some published standards for that sort of construction, such as the Geneva Seal, for example.

Rick "doesn't have to keep his best audio stuff in a safe" Denney

I have the same perspective on the watch hobby as my wife does on my audio hobby: all the enthusiasm and details still strike me as a bit inscrutable as I don't share them. I've never liked wearing watches, and for most of my life until very recently if I've worn a watch it's the cheapest, thinnest black digital watch I could buy. The less visible and intrusive on my wrist the better. Currently I'm wearing an Apple Watch, but only because it was necessary for a current medical treatment. Apple did a pretty good job of making a comfortable watch. I wouldn't wear it if I didn't have to though. (And analogously, my wife has no interest in my audio gear. I can get her to sit and listen maybe once every decade or so).

Is there any overlap at all in watch enthusiasm between mechanical and digital watch enthusiasts? Are there many mechanical watch enthusiasts who care about smart watches like Apple?
 

rdenney

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
2,294
Likes
4,026
Ha! I dared ask a watch enthusiast a question about watches :)

(Reminds me of when watches come up among my watch enthusiast friends...I'll get the full story to be sure).

I do appreciate the detail and the insight in to the watch enthusiast world. All the distinctions you laid out are interesting.



I have the same perspective on the watch hobby as my wife does on my audio hobby: all the enthusiasm and details still strike me as a bit inscrutable as I don't share them. I've never liked wearing watches, and for most of my life until very recently if I've worn a watch it's the cheapest, thinnest black digital watch I could buy. The less visible and intrusive on my wrist the better. Currently I'm wearing an Apple Watch, but only because it was necessary for a current medical treatment. Apple did a pretty good job of making a comfortable watch. I wouldn't wear it if I didn't have to though. (And analogously, my wife has no interest in my audio gear. I can get her to sit and listen maybe once every decade or so).

Is there any overlap at all in watch enthusiasm between mechanical and digital watch enthusiasts? Are there many mechanical watch enthusiasts who care about smart watches like Apple?
Lots of overlap between mechanical and digital watch enthusiasts, and most collectors of mechanical watches still own some quartz watches.

The Apple Watch? That's a bit more polarizing. But usually watch people agree that it's good to encourage younger generations to put something on their wrists.

Rick "no Apple Watch here" Denney
 

antcollinet

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 4, 2021
Messages
7,866
Likes
13,309
Location
UK/Cheshire
She says she likes the "cozy", noisy sound of vinyl sometimes.

I've quoted Passenger before:

"I took myself down to the cafe to find all
the boys lost in books and crackling vinyl"

Conjures an image of warmth and friendship. There is a romance to it. At least to me.
 
OP
BobbyTimmons

BobbyTimmons

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2019
Messages
355
Likes
403
I think it is. At least the Ferrari will go fast and look cool, which is what people expect from it. The $200K system won't (always) sound any better, but people FERVENTLY believe it will.
Unless you take it to the race track a Ferrari won't go faster in top speed than a Kia without breaking the law. With traffic most journeys will take the same time. It will perform worse than a Kia for daily driving. Just it looks cool and has social cachet. It's handcrafted and limited edition. Sonus Faber speakers will hardly sound different than JBL studio monitors. Just they look cool and have social cachet. The value of Ferraris and Sonus Faber speakers is being made by hand in Italy, limited edition, looking cool.
Arguably not irrational at all, if they actually believe the USB cable makes the sound significantly better, which everyone buying those cables absolutely does.
For most people believing USB cables have some magical effect on the sound of the 1s and 0s they transport would seem irrational. Paying $20k for a USB cable would merit a trip to a psychiatrist.
As you say, there are plenty of people who have reasonable systems and don't get carried away or fully sucked into the woo... I don't think we have any disagreement about those folks.
After Facebook the most popular audiophile group is r/audiophile with over 2 million members. The typical systems the audiophiles show off there are in the $3000 range. The third popular audiophile group in the world after Facebook and r/audiophile is probably r/BudgetAudiophile where people have systems in the $500 range. Being in the most popular audiophile spaces you don't get the feeling it is an expensive hobby for the typical audiophile. There are whales in Silicon Valley buying $200,000 speakers. The same people buy $200,000 kitchen units. They wear $100,000 watches. It's not typical of the other 99% of audiophiles with their sub $10,000 systems. Audiophiles who spend $3000 or even $10,000 on a system which should last them for years are not breaking the bank.
 
Last edited:

rdenney

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
2,294
Likes
4,026
Unless you take it to the race track a Ferrari won't go faster in top speed than a Kia without breaking the law. With traffic most journeys will take the same time. It will perform worse than a Kia for daily driving. Just it looks cool and has social cachet. …
Looking cool is all the justification one needs if they have the money. There’s no deception there.

Who uses a Ferrari for a daily driver, even in Dubai?

Rick “it’s the lying” Denney
 
Top Bottom