SMSL D-6s Balanced DAC Review

[Bleib]

I voted only fine because their own C200 at around the same price with balanced and unbalanced HPA outs is clearly the better product.

Unless you really hate 6.35mm TRS for some reason.




IINW the KH120-II have daisy-chained RCA SPDIF in and outs with selectable L/R on the monitors so you might not even need a DAC box.

DL200 likely beats the C200.. same:ish price

 

[Gremlins]

Then one question remains , do these dacs with amazing specs sound the same, this is the question

I mean, all of them now have specs beyond audible range, 200 euro to 800 euro, does the 200e smsl sound identical to the 800e smsl?

 

[Lithovox]

The Vivaldi (and Vivaldi Apex) remain the flagships. The “newer” ones are cost “reduced” versions of the ring DAC.

It may very well be that you need the price points of the Vivaldi to beat the chip implementations from AKM and ESS.

I would love to see the Vivaldi tested to the same standards that Amir tests everything else.

I do think that the issue is with the "Apex" revision, not the different price tiers. For instance compare the results for the Rossini and Rossini Apex:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/dcs-rossini-player-rossini-clock-measurements
https://www.stereophile.com/content/dcs-rossini-apex-da-processor-measurements

The original Rossini seems to handily outperform the Apex in the 50Hz measurement, even when the Apex has the advantage of a 100kΩ load instead of 600Ω.

Meanwhile the 50Hz measurement is suspiciously missing from the Vivaldi Apex review:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/dcs-vivaldi-apex-da-processor-measurements

Without the measurements it can't be said for certain, but I suspect it might have been omitted due to a poor performance from the Apex compared to the non-Apex.

 

[groot]

Can you guys tell me why someone has spoken about Qudelix as a choice with equalizer?
Isn’t this Qudelix is just a cheap portable DAC?

It is both relatively cheap and portable, but it also has a Parametric EQ engine built in.
It also pulls in the AutoEQ headphone profile library and provides "balanced" (or at least "high, independently generated") output via a dual DAC chip design and 2.5mm jack.

It's a fairly unique device with a very advanced UI (via an App) for a "dongle"

https://www.qudelix.com/blogs/5k-dac-amp/equalizer

I've only used the 5k. There a newer Qudelix-T71 that also has the PEQ engine, but the design of the T71 is around multi-channel processing. And it's not so cheap.

 

[frabor]

I voted only fine because their own C200 at around the same price with balanced and unbalanced HPA outs is clearly the better product.

Unless you really hate 6.35mm TRS for some reason.




IINW the KH120-II have daisy-chained RCA SPDIF in and outs with selectable L/R on the monitors so you might not even need a DAC box.

Yes, not needed but ... The dac is the preamp/ remote volume control. It is very nice to have a remote without being in front of the PC/ streamer screen.

 

[Bleib]

all of them now have specs beyond audible range, 200 euro to 800 euro, does the 200e smsl sound identical to the 800e smsl?

yup. It's a perfected technology by now.

 

[frabor]

Then one question remains , do these dacs with amazing specs sound the same, this is the question

I mean, all of them now have specs beyond audible range, 200 euro to 800 euro, does the 200e smsl sound identical to the 800e smsl?

That is the subjective question. Over here , if it measures good, it's good. In other forums ( like one full of super friends) they argue that measurments and sound quality to your ears are independent; negative feedback and opamps amplification/ signal conditioning is a sin, an audio heresy.

Me, I don't have golden ears, so I rather use measuring equipment to tell me what is good.

 

[TonyJZX]

people will then say they need a Chord Dave because their system is highly 'resolving' and that you need the extra 'resolution' of a Dave over a D6S.

Crummy ass poor people with crappy setup huh?

 

[GeekyBastard]

It is in the specs I looked at last night.

They forgot to update their Taobao spec page then

 

[Grooved]

Then one question remains , do these dacs with amazing specs sound the same, this is the question

I mean, all of them now have specs beyond audible range, 200 euro to 800 euro, does the 200e smsl sound identical to the 800e smsl?

They certainly sound the same... as long as you set both with the same filter.
If you compare two, and they don't use the same filter, they can sound different.

That is the subjective question. Over here , if it measures good, it's good. In other forums ( like one full of super friends) they argue that measurments and sound quality to your ears are independent; negative feedback and opamps amplification/ signal conditioning is a sin, an audio heresy.

Me, I don't have golden ears, so I rather use measuring equipment to tell me what is good.

It's not really a subjective question, like said above, it changes if they don't use the same filter. I don't why everybody ignore it, maybe just because we don't have a graph showing the result that we are used to. Maybe also because the graph showing the different filters shows a difference in the higher frequencies, but that it's not there that you will hear the difference (very small, but you can hear it depending on the content of the track)
I did some tests that show the difference, but you can't really show the results as a graph like frequency response, but the two filters giving me the biggest sound difference were also the two with the biggest difference in the measurements (with the same DAC that measure the same at 1kHz with all filters).

 

[Palladium]

people will then say they need a Chord Dave because their system is highly 'resolving' and that you need the extra 'resolution' of a Dave over a D6S.

Crummy ass poor people with crappy setup huh?

Lets just keep pretending megabuck gear can never sound bad.

 

[eliash]

Could be even more versatile with built-in Ethernet+Wifi based UPnP rendering!!!

 

[totti1965]

It is both relatively cheap and portable, but it also has a Parametric EQ engine built in.
It also pulls in the AutoEQ headphone profile library and provides "balanced" (or at least "high, independently generated") output via a dual DAC chip design and 2.5mm jack.

It's a fairly unique device with a very advanced UI (via an App) for a "dongle"

https://www.qudelix.com/blogs/5k-dac-amp/equalizer

I've only used the 5k. There a newer Qudelix-T71 that also has the PEQ engine, but the design of the T71 is around multi-channel processing. And it's not so cheap.

Aah! Thank you. I suppose that the integration of a parametric equalizer is for the final sound output much much more important, than the last 15 - 20 dB Sinad in Comparison to the SMSL D-6s balanced stereo DAC. Is it the database of my hero Crinacle? I really like that guy!

 

[totti1965]

They certainly sound the same... as long as you set both with the same filter.
If you compare two, and they don't use the same filter, they can sound different.

It's not really a subjective question, like said above, it changes if they don't use the same filter. I don't why everybody ignore it, maybe just because we don't have a graph showing the result that we are used to. Maybe also because the graph showing the different filters shows a difference in the higher frequencies, but that it's not there that you will hear the difference (very small, but you can hear it depending on the content of the track)
I did some tests that show the difference, but you can't really show the results as a graph like frequency response, but the two filters giving me the biggest sound difference were also the two with the biggest difference in the measurements (with the same DAC that measure the same at 1kHz with all filters).

Is there a filter you prefer sonically for most musical content? It´s the same for MQA. Perhaps they use some more "natural" Filters in regard of the Phase. I don´t know why, but I prefer MQA a tiny little bit over "full 16 bit 44.1 kHz" Flac.
Can @amirm also do measurements in regard of these Variations in the "phase behaviour"?

 

[JSmith]

I don´t know why, but I prefer MQA a tiny little bit over "full 16 bit 44.1 kHz" Flac.

I might know why... the little blue light.


JSmith

 

[TonyJZX]

I might know why... the little blue light.


JSmith

the spirit of Bob Stuart compels you!

prob. mastering IRL

are people really complaining about the lack of the same tired suit of smsl filters they have in all their dacs???

 

[raif71]

Sorry, I'm not a complainer...really. But with the release of the DL200 two months ago and which includes a balanced headphone amp for $10 less, isn't the D-6s obsolete from the start?

It's as if SMSL want to cater to the XLR crowd with d-6s coz DL200 has only TRS for balanced out ie making both camps happy ?

 

[ocinn]

Yeah, you can also say that about for example reviewed by stereophile in 1993 Mark Levinson No.35

well no, the “dac problem” I was referring to was that you used to need to spend huge amounts of money (that mark levinson was $17,000 adj for inflation) to get a totally transparent product. Which honestly means no-one with speakers that are worth less than $50k or so are going to purchase it.

Even a few years ago the cream of the crop products (benchmark, mola mola, matrix, etc) were quite expensive.

Now we can get far higher performance in products under $200. That’s solving the dac problem.

 

[ocinn]

i keep wondering when smsl will start putting hdmi as standard feature on their dacs?

The user market which desires a ultra-high performing stereo DAC does not overlap with those who need HDMI audio support at all.

HDMI users almost universally want surround processing.

And for the niche group of individuals that desire “higher than AVR” D/A performance, in a stereo system, are happy to spend $30 for an eARC/HDMI toslink extractor.

SMSL is not going to add a feature that 99% of their customers don’t care about, which in-turn adds a fixed cost increase, which then means lower value and lower sales for said product. It doesn’t make financial sense to either the manufacturer or the consumer to humor an ultra niche use-case in a product line which is centered around high value.

 

[TonyJZX]

It's as if SMSL want to cater to the XLR crowd with d-6s coz DL200 has only TRS for balanced out ie making both camps happy ?

it would not surprise me if they make a DL200S now with XLR

i'd own the DL200 if it came with XLR but like many of you guys, we dont need any more dacs do we?