Zu Audio speaker solutions

[fpitas]

Low distortion from a horn!
Keith

It's been known to happen.

 

[mhardy6647]

The aversion to horns is hardly universal.

Some of the very best speakers I've heard have been horn loaded, at several times the price of the Klipsch versions. The new Klipsch Jubilee shows great promise.

But, IMO, Klipschorns sound amazingly musical and like a live orchestra (I've played in 5, if you count school, used to eat lunch in front of one rehearsing, and have been a frequent classical, romantic period, and contemporary concert goer). They have sounded great (low distortion and incredible dynamics) in the three rooms I have had Klipschorns in, and also at all of the audio stores in which I have heard them (except The Good Guys). The Cornwall isn't quite as good, and doesn't have the precise bass of the Khorns. The La Scala and the Belle definitely need a subwoofer, preferably a horn loaded one. Just as my dislike of the La Scala was reaching the max, I walked into a cheesy little store where they sounded great! When the monarch asked the wise men for a saying that would always be appropriate, they suggested, "It all depends."


The Klipschorn sound can be optimised 1) in a properly treated room 2) with either Audyssey, the highest Dirac, Trinnov, etc. 3) for some recordings, further EQed with TLC 4) a high ceiling 5) a thick carpet, or area rugs 6) more than 13-15 feet away 7) on tweeter axis 8) in a large room 9) containing the newest stock upgrades from Klipsch (we brought our 1980 Klipschorns up to the 2005 level by installing a Klipsch upgrade -- we could hear the difference, although subtle, with most music. One subtle improvement resulted from adding 2' x 4' absorbers to the walls where a yardstick pressed flat across the front of the midrange horn would touch the side wall, with the absorbers reaching 2 feet farther into the room, from there. This advice came from Chris A, an engineer who is on the Klipsch forum, in his article, "Corner Horn Acoustics." These absorbers are in a completely different location than the position dictated by the "mirror test."
View attachment 229370

How about distortion? At THX's highest peak SPL of 105 dB (above 80 Hz; subwoofers can go 10 dB higher) would be a decent place to measure. IM (Modulation or Doppler)

https://www.stereophile.com/content/red-shift-doppler-distortion-loudspeakers-page-3)

distortion is generally the most serious. I fully realize that these measurements were taken by different people, in different locations, at different times -- just like subjective listening tests. So, at 105 dB, then:

Speakers	IM distortion at 105dB (fs) at ~~14'	THD at 105 dB (fs) at ~~14'
Klipschorn	1.7% Slightly Audible	0.25%
AR 4-way AR 98RS	2.7% Clearly Audible and slightly Annoying	~3% Audible
Fried Studio 4	10% Clearly Audible & Annoying	4% Audible
Platinum Studio 2	7% Clearly Audible and Annoying	1.9% Audible					​
From reviews by Heyser, Keele, Jr., and others.
		.

TL/DR (sorry)
I am not horn-averse (that's an understatement). I am Klipsch-averse (as a former Cornwall owner). The cottage industry of heritage Klipsch "improvers" (mods, tweaks, and major remodeling) sort of testifies to the notion that I'm not alone... as does your post.
The K-horns, stock, are OK. The rest can be literally painful to listen to.
I do hope/presume they current morphs are better.

 

[garyrc]

TL/DR (sorry)
I am not horn-averse (that's an understatement). I am Klipsch-averse (as a former Cornwall owner). The cottage industry of heritage Klipsch "improvers" (mods, tweaks, and major remodeling) sort of testifies to the notion that I'm not alone... as does your post.
The K-horns, stock, are OK. The rest can be literally painful to listen to.
I do hope/presume they current morphs are better.

As you know, the Cornwall (I don't know about the newest one, the IV) has a shorter midrange horn than the K401 in the Klipschorn, and doesn't have horn loading in the bass.

IMO any speaker should start out being used in the most appropriate acoustical (room treatment and position) and electronic setting (electronic room correction, with that correction being switched in and out), as well as trying the most up to date drivers, horns, cabinet etc., by the lights of the manufacturer (in Klipsch's case, with the Klipsch revolving room corner in their anechoic chamber, if appropriate, plus the combined experience of the staff with former versions of the model). Then, if changing any or all of the components improves the sound, so be it. Once I made the changes outlined above (keeping the original design of the Khorn AK4 then 5), I felt no need to change anything, except for putting a K401 on my center channel (Belle Klipsch) in a new top hat, with part of the horn/driver sticking out the back, flush mounted in the wall, with the enclosure panels under pressure to damp vibration.

Some people who have tried "improvements" reverted to the original configuration. The much maligned K77 series of tweeters, considered "too bright" by some (just as was the JBL 075) when the source recordings have distortion and over brightness that several other tweeters veil, were reinstalled by owners several times. One case that sticks in the mind is a blind test of three tweeters on a Cornwall, a Beyma, a Ciare, and an original K77 square magnet. The blindfolded owner eliminated No 1 (the Beyma) early on, and his wife switched back and forth between the other two, which, although different, was a tough choice, but finally selected the K77, because he thought it was just a bit smoother.

I understand that since I have logged so many hours near live instruments when playing in orchestras I may have developed a taste for bright sound. But I still like it bright and nearly undistorted, vs. bright and distorted. Many speakers I have heard and liked do sound rather veiled to me. Good old Bozaks, some B&Ws, Vandersteens, older Warfedales, ADC, etc. Only the most expensive JBLs, Klipsch, EV, etc. sound "right" to me. There are probably others.

 

[mhardy6647]

Altec, EV, JBL.
Now you're talkin'.

 

[Doodski]

Only the most expensive JBLs, Klipsch, EV, etc. sound "right" to me.

After owning my first horn speakers I was a believer in horns. Good horns sound so vivid and real.

 

[ba1473]

There are many posts on this forum thrashing Zu speakers while Audio reviews continue to praise them. I am the unfortunate owner of the soul supremes. Every once in a while I bring them out of storage and try to make them listenable diferent amplifiers,ect.. Persévérance and luck paid off. Inserting a constant directivity filter seem to work.

Do you want to sell them

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Actualy, it is a very small accomplishment, they are going back deep into my the basement. These speakers are a joke Reviewers like steve gotenburg and Darko must be on the same substance. These people cost me money.

I really sympathize. OTOH, there are any number of "audiophiles" who hang on Stevo and Darko's every word. Some of them peruse HiFi Shark looking for a deal on Zu speakers. Y'know.

 

[fpitas]

I really sympathize. OTOH, there are any number of "audiophiles" who hang on Stevo and Darko's every word. Some of them peruse HiFi Shark looking for a deal on Zu speakers. Y'know.

So, find the right sucker erm discerning listener and sell!

 

[ba1473]

Do you want to sell them

So, find the right sucker erm discerning listener and sell!

.I'll be the sucker, I would be happy to buy them

 

[fpitas]

.I'll be the sucker, I would be happy to buy them

Fixer upper?

 

[ba1473]

No I love ZU speakers and peter said he hates them to so depending on where he is I would like to buy them

 

[pablolie]

In general, speakers is where your personal preference should come in. Your choice there is not to please others, unless your motivation for audio is to claim you have the most linear sounding setup. Another speaker that some adore and other abhor are the Devore Orangutans, which many professional audiophile reviewers adore even though they measure poorly (cabinet resonances galore). That said, I listen to them quite often at a good friend's place, and one should listen to them with Chopin or solo piano or classic quitar...

Personally, I'd never make any excuses or seek validation for speakers that appeal to *me* and present my fav music in a way I enjoy.

 

[ba1473]

I was just offering to buy some speakers at one of your your members hates that's it