TAD CR1

[Pearljam5000]

Has anyone heard about them?
Why do they cost $36K a pair and how do they compare to Genelec Ones? (if at all)

 

[thewas]

2011 Stereophile review and measurements by @John Atkinson
https://www.stereophile.com/content/tad-compact-reference-cr1-loudspeaker
They measure well for their time and being passive, TAD had always an exclusive price tag which is also partially explained by the high built quality, materials, design, etc...
By the way they were engineered by Andrew Jones who is now at ELAC and was before TAD at KEF, so one of the top coaxial driver experts.

 

[tuga]

I listened attentively to the larger Reference Ones a couple of times.
They're one of the best speakers I've had the chance to audition.

TAD/Pioneer made a cheaper version of these speakers, the S-2EX:

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/speaker/bookshelf/pioneer-s-ex2-speakers/


Edit: confused the models, now corrected

 

[Murrayp]

I owned a pair, and later the Ref 1s (they still reside locally and I get to hear them now and then). I've only listened to Genelecs at shows.
All I can comment is personal preference and any time I do that here I'm politely informed it is of little value without level matched a/b testing. So make of it as you will - I found the TAD speakers to be very clear and clean, very dynamic (didn't compress when driven to silly levels), but also very unforgiving - any hardness was thrown at you. A friend thought they were the closest to live sound that he'd heard - he attends a lot of concerts - the sound at concerts is not always pretty. I hear the Ref 1s at my friend's place now and then and every time the sheer clarity (compared to my current B&W 800D3s) amazes me - so much more to be heard. Nevertheless I enjoy my B&Ws. At shows the TADs have impressed with their clarity. I've not had the same impression from Genelecs even when sitting through a demo of several models. But again how can one comment without it being blind - so clearly I was biased.

Why do they cost so much? Top end design but top end market positioning too I think. Are they worth it? - certainly they are waaay down the path of diminishing returns. but after that it's a personal thing I guess. I minimised my cost by buying second hand. They aren't really in the same market space.

 

[noobie1]

I owned a pair, and later the Ref 1s (they still reside locally and I get to hear them now and then). I've only listened to Genelecs at shows.
All I can comment is personal preference and any time I do that here I'm politely informed it is of little value without level matched a/b testing. So make of it as you will - I found the TAD speakers to be very clear and clean, very dynamic (didn't compress when driven to silly levels), but also very unforgiving - any hardness was thrown at you. A friend thought they were the closest to live sound that he'd heard - he attends a lot of concerts - the sound at concerts is not always pretty. I hear the Ref 1s at my friend's place now and then and every time the sheer clarity (compared to my current B&W 800D3s) amazes me - so much more to be heard. Nevertheless I enjoy my B&Ws. At shows the TADs have impressed with their clarity. I've not had the same impression from Genelecs even when sitting through a demo of several models. But again how can one comment without it being blind - so clearly I was biased.

Why do they cost so much? Top end design but top end market positioning too I think. Are they worth it? - certainly they are waaay down the path of diminishing returns. but after that it's a personal thing I guess. I minimised my cost by buying second hand. They aren't really in the same market space.

What differences did you notice between the CR1 and the Reference 1? Is it mainly bass extension?

I’ve auditioned Evo 1, CE 1, and ME 1. They are all top notch IMO. CR1 would be on my short list for end game speakers.

 

[Purité Audio]

I listened attentively to the larger Reference Ones a couple of times.
They're one of the best speakers I've had the chance to audition.

TAD/Pioneer made a cheaper version of these speakers, the S-2EX:

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/speaker/bookshelf/pioneer-s-ex2-speakers/


Edit: confused the models, now corrected

Two customers owned the floor standing version of those Pioneers, I recolllect the drivers were labelled TAD and ‘designed by Andrew Jones’.
They weren’t at all bad and very reasonably priced compared to their siblings.
Keith

 

[tuga]

I owned a pair, and later the Ref 1s (they still reside locally and I get to hear them now and then). I've only listened to Genelecs at shows.
All I can comment is personal preference and any time I do that here I'm politely informed it is of little value without level matched a/b testing. So make of it as you will - I found the TAD speakers to be very clear and clean, very dynamic (didn't compress when driven to silly levels), but also very unforgiving - any hardness was thrown at you. A friend thought they were the closest to live sound that he'd heard - he attends a lot of concerts - the sound at concerts is not always pretty. I hear the Ref 1s at my friend's place now and then and every time the sheer clarity (compared to my current B&W 800D3s) amazes me - so much more to be heard. Nevertheless I enjoy my B&Ws. At shows the TADs have impressed with their clarity. I've not had the same impression from Genelecs even when sitting through a demo of several models. But again how can one comment without it being blind - so clearly I was biased.

Why do they cost so much? Top end design but top end market positioning too I think. Are they worth it? - certainly they are waaay down the path of diminishing returns. but after that it's a personal thing I guess. I minimised my cost by buying second hand. They aren't really in the same market space.

Which amplifiers did you drive them with?

Did you find them unforgiving with to pop/rock; jazz or classical?

 

[Pearljam5000]

I owned a pair, and later the Ref 1s (they still reside locally and I get to hear them now and then). I've only listened to Genelecs at shows.
All I can comment is personal preference and any time I do that here I'm politely informed it is of little value without level matched a/b testing. So make of it as you will - I found the TAD speakers to be very clear and clean, very dynamic (didn't compress when driven to silly levels), but also very unforgiving - any hardness was thrown at you. A friend thought they were the closest to live sound that he'd heard - he attends a lot of concerts - the sound at concerts is not always pretty. I hear the Ref 1s at my friend's place now and then and every time the sheer clarity (compared to my current B&W 800D3s) amazes me - so much more to be heard. Nevertheless I enjoy my B&Ws. At shows the TADs have impressed with their clarity. I've not had the same impression from Genelecs even when sitting through a demo of several models. But again how can one comment without it being blind - so clearly I was biased.

Why do they cost so much? Top end design but top end market positioning too I think. Are they worth it? - certainly they are waaay down the path of diminishing returns. but after that it's a personal thing I guess. I minimised my cost by buying second hand. They aren't really in the same market space.

Thank you very much

I owned a pair, and later the Ref 1s (they still reside locally and I get to hear them now and then). I've only listened to Genelecs at shows.
All I can comment is personal preference and any time I do that here I'm politely informed it is of little value without level matched a/b testing. So make of it as you will - I found the TAD speakers to be very clear and clean, very dynamic (didn't compress when driven to silly levels), but also very unforgiving - any hardness was thrown at you. A friend thought they were the closest to live sound that he'd heard - he attends a lot of concerts - the sound at concerts is not always pretty. I hear the Ref 1s at my friend's place now and then and every time the sheer clarity (compared to my current B&W 800D3s) amazes me - so much more to be heard. Nevertheless I enjoy my B&Ws. At shows the TADs have impressed with their clarity. I've not had the same impression from Genelecs even when sitting through a demo of several models. But again how can one comment without it being blind - so clearly I was biased.

Why do they cost so much? Top end design but top end market positioning too I think. Are they worth it? - certainly they are waaay down the path of diminishing returns. but after that it's a personal thing I guess. I minimised my cost by buying second hand. They aren't really in the same market space.

Yeah they're very different but they're both high end coaxials which aren't very common, obviously TAD is 4 times more expensive

 

[Murrayp]

What differences did you notice between the CR1 and the Reference 1? Is it mainly bass extension?

I’ve auditioned Evo 1, CE 1, and ME 1. They are all top notch IMO. CR1 would be on my short list for end game speakers.

I agree they are in the top group. The differences I felt were mainly big speaker vs small speaker differences - authority, bass extension, slam. On the other hand they are big and I was listening fairly close ~3m - at this distance they are feel a bit intimidating. I thought they might be end game, but for me not in the end. Now I am back enjoying much less respected B&W800s..... presentation in my room suits me better .... I guess this to be due mainly to wider horizontal dispersion in the B&Ws but I may be wrong. Sorry, none of this very scientific - just my personal path....

 

[Murrayp]

Which amplifiers did you drive them with?

Did you find them unforgiving with to pop/rock; jazz or classical?

I started with the original Devialet amplifier, later with TADs own C600/M600. Also Halcro DM88s and CH Precision L1. I don't listen to classical so comments really relate to other genres. Though incredibly clear, in my room there seemed to be a slight leanness to the sound and perhaps a slight hardness. Again these are not scientific evaluations so make of them as you will. I recall some music sounded a little metallic, lacking warmth - case in point was piano and voice on Cat Stevens "Morning has Broken" on A/B with my 800s.

 

[PGAMiami]

I had M1s, in my view the best speaker TAD ever made, and now have R1s. Unfortunately the M1 cabinets would literally come unglued, and TAD eventually replaced them with R1s. Both can sound a little bright. I had many amps on them to mitigate the brightness, including Spectral, MSB, Pass, Constellation. Now I’m using AHB2s which coincidentally were designed by Andrew Jones twin brother. Without a doubt the AHB2 are the best amps I’ve owned and the least expensive by a lot. I’m fortunate to have a good relationship with Andrew and with his help I’m now biamping my R1s using a Pass XRV1 and 4 AHB2s in mono. The system also employs a Roon based Audiolense designed convolution filter tuned to a Harmon curve. Mitch Barnett did the work on the filter and this made a huge difference in the perceived and measured timbral response. Very low distortion, 20-20khz bandwidth and excellent dynamics.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Wow the old ones used to cost much less
The new ones cost $89K with stands
That's quite a price jump

 

[FrantzM]

I had M1s, in my view the best speaker TAD ever made, and now have R1s. Unfortunately the M1 cabinets would literally come unglued, and TAD eventually replaced them with R1s. Both can sound a little bright. I had many amps on them to mitigate the brightness, including Spectral, MSB, Pass, Constellation. Now I’m using AHB2s which coincidentally were designed by Andrew Jones twin brother. Without a doubt the AHB2 are the best amps I’ve owned and the least expensive by a lot. I’m fortunate to have a good relationship with Andrew and with his help I’m now biamping my R1s using a Pass XRV1 and 4 AHB2s in mono. The system also employs a Roon based Audiolense designed convolution filter tuned to a Harmon curve. Mitch Barnett did the work on the filter and this made a huge difference in the perceived and measured timbral response. Very low distortion, 20-20khz bandwidth and excellent

 

[sweetchaos]

Wow the old ones used to cost much less
The new ones cost $89K with stands
That's quite a price jump

Hey AI…

Write me a bunch of flowery words to describe a perfect / expensive speaker.

The perfect speaker is an enchanting maestro, orating with a melodious voice that captivates and resonates within the very souls of their audience. They are like a blooming sunflower in a field of daisies, standing tall and radiant amidst a sea of ordinary voices. Their eloquence is akin to the delicate petals of a rose, unfurling gracefully to reveal profound insights and wisdom.

Their masterful use of language paints vivid images in the minds of listeners, as if they were strolling through an exquisite garden filled with vibrant hues and fragrances. Each word is chosen carefully, like picking ripe berries from a bush, ensuring every message delivered is both nourishing and delightful.

A harmonious blend of charisma and humility graces their presence, making them approachable yet commanding respect. Like a majestic oak tree, they provide shelter and solace for those seeking knowledge while remaining grounded in authenticity.

As engaging as a babbling brook, their stories flow effortlessly, inviting all who listen on a journey full of twists and turns, laughter and tears. With the poise of a swan gliding across a still pond, they navigate complex topics with ease, leaving ripples of understanding in their wake.

In essence, the perfect speaker embodies the beauty and elegance of nature itself – constantly evolving, growing stronger, and blossoming into something truly extraordinary.

 

[jonfitch]

The used prices on the TAD CR1s are much more reasonable than retail. That said, TAD speakers tend to sound a little bit bright because the off-axis response doesn't have that gradual dropoff like you see with a lot of more modern designs from Revel or Kef. The best analogy I can give is if you've ever heard the old Paradigm Signature v2/v3 speakers, they sound kind of similar. Very linear on axis, but a bit too linear off axis as well, giving it just a little too much overall treble energy in-room.

 

[boxerfan88]

I’ve heard the Evo 1TX both in a home setting & show setting. They are very very good indeed.

Mids & high is super clear. The bass gives a solid thump and is really “fast”, probably from really good time alignment of the woofers.

 

[Purité Audio]

I tried to import TAD for years during the Andrew Jones era, I remember telephoning him, he was driving down Santa Monica Boulevard in a convertible at the time!
Then they out of the blue appointed an’ ambassador’ who appointed distributors left right and centre!
The TAD room at Munich early 2000’s always sounded pretty good.
Keith

 

[FrantzM]

Pioneer/TAD are for profit and as such follow the market. They've noticed that things are getting more expensive, even groceries , o why not bump up the price? with appropriate marketing/verbiage? On top of that, their market is not expanding by leap and bounds. To keep revenues, perhaps profits, flowing... Why not?

What bothers me in here is that once someone (most often @pearl ... ?? Nah !! ) post about an expensive item, it seems like a license for others, to post wildly subjective opinions... And those are not what ASR is about: There is a Science to accurate Reproduction. Accurate Audio is not expensive anymore. This has been proven to us: Many (most) of those HEA speakers performance, is surpassed by speakers of reasonable prices, some could even be called inexpensive. I take for example the LS3/5A recently reviewed here who would not hold a candle to the cheap JBL LSR 308 ... the one priced at a maximum of $250 on most any online store ...
Now if we want to remain in the realm of what we could call "expensive".. those hovering around $10k and that are coaxial... Genelec 8351? 8361? Kef Reference Meta?

So what does this TAD speaker offers at $83,000? Seriously?

Peace.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Pioneer/TAD are for profit and as such follow the market. They've noticed that things are getting more expensive, even groceries , o why not bump up the price? with appropriate marketing/verbiage? On top of that, their market is not expanding by leap and bounds. To keep revenues, perhaps profits, flowing... Why not?

Wh3at bothers me in here is that once someone (most often @pearl ... ?? Nah !! ) post about an expensive item, it seems like a license for others, to post wildly subjective opinions... And those are not what ASR is about: There is a Science to accurate Reproduction. Accurate Audio is not expensive anymore. This has been proven to us: Many (most) of those HEA speakers performance, is surpassed by speakers of reasonable prices, some could even be called inexpensive. I take for example the LS3/5A recently reviewed here who would not hold a candle to the cheap JBL LSR 308 ... the one priced at a maximum of $250 on most any online store ...
Now if we want to remain in the realm of what we could call "expensive".. those hovering around $10, k and that are coaxials... Genelec 8351? 8361? Kef Reference Metas?

So what does this TAD speaker offers at $83,000? Seriously?

Peace.

That was my original post
How the TADs compare to the 8361 as they're both coaxial and about the same size

 

[PGAMiami]

That was my original post
How the TADs compare to the 8361 as they're both coaxial and about the same size

I haven’t heard the Genelecs, but the R1s and CR1s are extraordinary speaker. Current pricing is insane. Both TADs benefit greatly from judicious application of DSP to reduce room effects and tailor the frequency response to one’s preference. They are wide dispersion speakers and this will make them sound bright in rooms that are not well damped. I haven’t measured this, but I would expect the Genelecs distortion levels would exceed the TADs at high SPL levels. DSP will not fix this. The TADs with a proper Audiolense convolution filter running on Roon playing on Benchmark DACs and amps are hard to beat. Andrew Jones is an extraordinary engineer. The coax in the TADs is now 20 years old. Unfortunately Andrew hasn’t designed a cost no object coax since.