SVS Micro 3000 crossover with stereo amplifier

[Riggs88]

Hi,

So I have a question on where to set the subs LPF for 2ch music listening. I've read some advice on AV forum stating it should be 70% of your speakers lowest range for music to prevent overlap, so for my speakers (Focal Aria 926's) that would mean a LPF of 31.5hz as it's lowest range is 45hz. Does this seem right? I don't think I'll get much sub action at that. My objective was to extend the lower frequency range but also add some extra weight.

Amp is a Stereo Marantz PM6007 with a fixed LPF 150Hz sub pre out. Cheers

 

[radix]

I don't think the micro 3000 is going to add much below 35 or so. it's a great little sub, but it's not really that full range. It can fill in and fix nulls in the 40-80 range just fine, and those can make a lot of difference.

I usually cross around 60 - 80 Hz, even for larger speakers. Removing that low end from the speakers has several advantages. (1) you can position the subs to where it minimizes room modes (nulls) and get a flatter response. (2) the low end is where most all the speaker distortion is, your speakers will work a lot less hard. But that is when I have both a low-pass filter for the sub and high-pass filter for the speakers.

You should really get a UMIK-1 (or other measurement mic) and learn to use REW. There's no canned answer to how to set it up, it really depends on the room geometry, the speaker and sub placement, angles, distances, etc.

I could not find info on the sub crossover in the PM6007 manual. Without a high-pass filter, you likely want to set the sub crossover to be near where the speakers naturally die out. REW is really the only way to accurately do this. The speakers might not die out gracefully (i.e. have bumps or plateaus), so you will want to set the EQ on the sub too.

 

[Riggs88]

Thanks for the reply.

Yes unfortunately my amplifier doesn't have HPF just a LPF that's fixed, so 150hz and below goes to the sub. I did initially have the sub LPF set to 80hz and it sounded best around that figure.

I'll have to look into REW and a mic, it's definitely something that interests me and I can then make basic corrections via PEQ on the WiiM and SVS.

Anyway music has never sounded so good since adding the Micro 3000. I collect a second one tomorrow so can't wait to hear how that changes things, I've never ran two subs before

 

[radix]

Looking at the Aria 926 review, a crossover around 60-70 is probably pretty good, based on the "estimated in-room response." But the big thing is to fill in the nulls from the room that you will only see once you can do a REW measurement.

Focal Aria 906 Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Focal Aria 906 Bookshelf/stand-mount speaker. It was kindly purchased by a member and drop shipped to me. I think it costs US $2000 for a pair but I see it on Amazon including Prime shipping for half that at US $999. Better yet, they have a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

There's several recommended REW videos here.

REW how to guide?

Here are a few tutorials - - - - -

www.audiosciencereview.com

Despite it's small size and limited bass, I do like the 3000 micro for what it is. The size is fantastic for being able to fit it into most any room.

 

[CapMan]

I use a pair of 3000 Micros crossed at 100Hz to Revel F206s. With room gain they start to roll off in my smallish room at 30Hz. I don’t play at excessive levels. Great solution for a small room.

 

[Riggs88]

I use a pair of 3000 Micros crossed at 100Hz to Revel F206s. With room gain they start to roll off in my smallish room at 30Hz. I don’t play at excessive levels. Great solution for a small room.View attachment 367491

It's good to hear your experience as we have very similar setups. Btw what amplifier are you using?

That piano black finish sure does look sweet. Mine are both in Gloss white, only because I bought them pre-owned.

Looking at the Aria 926 review, a crossover around 60-70 is probably pretty good, based on the "estimated in-room response." But the big thing is to fill in the nulls from the room that you will only see once you can do a REW measurement.

Focal Aria 906 Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Focal Aria 906 Bookshelf/stand-mount speaker. It was kindly purchased by a member and drop shipped to me. I think it costs US $2000 for a pair but I see it on Amazon including Prime shipping for half that at US $999. Better yet, they have a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

There's several recommended REW videos here.

REW how to guide?

Here are a few tutorials - - - - -

www.audiosciencereview.com

Despite it's small size and limited bass, I do like the 3000 micro for what it is. The size is fantastic for being able to fit it into most any room.

Thanks for the advice. REW and a mic are definitely on my radar now.

 

[Riggs88]

I use a pair of 3000 Micros crossed at 100Hz to Revel F206s. With room gain they start to roll off in my smallish room at 30Hz. I don’t play at excessive levels. Great solution for a small room.View attachment 367491

That's great to hear as you have first hand experience and very similar setup to mine.

Wow! Piano black sure does look sweet. Mine are in gloss white, only because I bought pre-owned. Btw what amplifier are you using?

 

[Riggs88]

Oh any suggestion on what the ideal slope would be I currently have it set at -24db is that to steep?

 

[witwald]

Yes unfortunately my amplifier doesn't have HPF just a LPF that's fixed, so 150hz and below goes to the sub. I did initially have the sub LPF set to 80hz and it sounded best around that figure.

With the subwoofer LPF set to 80Hz, there would be a very wide frequency range of interaction between the output from the main speakers and that from the subwoofer. Although the bass sound being reproduced was liked, quite possibly it wasn't as accurate as would be desired. To improve the bass response, a subwoofer with a –3dB point of 20Hz or so would be the preferred option, although 25Hz would still be capable of making a very worthwhile improvement in bass extension. The SVS SB-2000 Pro would produce superior results to those of the Micro 3000. See the frequency response comparison shown below to get an idea of the differences between these two subwoofers.

 

[CapMan]

That's great to hear as you have first hand experience and very similar setup to mine.

Wow! Piano black sure does look sweet. Mine are in gloss white, only because I bought pre-owned. Btw what amplifier are you using?

Denon X4800 AVR and Dirac to integrate the subs . In the past I used REW as suggested to measure and integrate the subs when used with a devialet amp. The gloss black is nice

 

[Riggs88]

With the subwoofer LPF set to 80Hz, there would be a very wide frequency range of interaction between the output from the main speakers and that from the subwoofer. Although the bass sound being reproduced was liked, quite possibly it wasn't as accurate as would be desired. To improve the bass response, a subwoofer with a –3dB point of 20Hz or so would be the preferred option, although 25Hz would still be capable of making a very worthwhile improvement in bass extension. The SVS SB-2000 Pro would produce superior results to those of the Micro 3000. See the frequency response comparison shown below to get an idea of the differences between these two subwoofers.
View attachment 367512

Ah okay I'm with you, I was looking at the larger 12" Sb-2000/3000 Pro subs but I couldn't find any on the used market in the finish I want. Something to consider in the future no doubt.

 

[Riggs88]

Denon X4800 AVR and Dirac to integrate the subs . In the past I used REW as suggested to measure and integrate the subs when used with a devialet amp. The gloss black is nice

That's a real nice AVR. I do have a soft spot for HT too, I'm using a dated Yamaha DSP AX 763 5.1 in the bedroom for when the missus is watching trash downstairs!

 

[radix]

Ah okay I'm with you, I was looking at the larger 12" Sb-2000/3000 Pro subs but I couldn't find any on the used market in the finish I want. Something to consider in the future no doubt.

I use the SB2000 Pro in my TV room. It is a step up from the 3000 micro. If you look at the 2000 review (below), it gets plenty loud in the CEA-2010-A/B tests.

SVS SB-2000 Pro vs SB-3000 Subwoofer Review

Full review can be found on my site here: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/subwoofer_testing/svs_sb3000_vs_sb2000pro/ SVS SB-2000 Pro vs SB-3000 Subwoofer Shootout Tuesday, Mar 16, 2021 Foreword / YouTube Video Review The review on this website is a brief overview and summary of the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

That said, the 3000 micro is 1000% better than no sub.

 

[CapMan]

I use the SB2000 Pro in my TV room. It is a step up from the 3000 micro. If you look at the 2000 review (below), it gets plenty loud in the CEA-2010-A/B tests.

SVS SB-2000 Pro vs SB-3000 Subwoofer Review

Full review can be found on my site here: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/subwoofer_testing/svs_sb3000_vs_sb2000pro/ SVS SB-2000 Pro vs SB-3000 Subwoofer Shootout Tuesday, Mar 16, 2021 Foreword / YouTube Video Review The review on this website is a brief overview and summary of the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

That said, the 3000 micro is 1000% better than no sub.

And 2 x 3000s are 2000% better

 

[Riggs88]

And 2 x 3000s are 2000% better

Just installed the second Micro 3000. My first time ever listening to two subs and, it's really made a difference compared to one, the bass is more uniform across the sofa now. Also I finally have the weighty tight bass that I was after at lower volumes

 

[radix]

Just installed the second Micro 3000. My first time ever listening to two subs and, it's really made a difference compared to one, the bass is more uniform across the sofa now. Also I finally have the weighty tight bass that I was after at lower volumes

Nice. Given the limited space, the 3000 micro might just be the right sub.

Did you hook those up with a Y cable or daisy chain them? (I think either would be ok, just wondering).

It would be interesting to see how REW measures the system, but if you're happy with the sound that's what really counts.

 

[Riggs88]

Nice. Given the limited space, the 3000 micro might just be the right sub.

Did you hook those up with a Y cable or daisy chain them? (I think either would be ok, just wondering).

It would be interesting to see how REW measures the system, but if you're happy with the sound that's what really counts.

Yeah the 3000's are about the biggest subs I could accommodate, with the room being smallish and an odd shape.

I daisy chained them but also have a Y connector, not sure if one connection is better than the other, would the Y connection not cause a voltage drop to the pre outs on the subs?

Im really happy with the sound, the bass is nice and tight and not boomy at all, it just blend's nicely with the 926's. I can definitely hear more low end detail in music now too. Currently I have them both set to 100hz and -12db slope. That was not possible before with only 1 as I could localise the sub over 80hz.

Unfortunately I don't have REW or a mic yet, but I do have the House curve App, but not yet ran a test. I could throw pic of that up if you like?

 

[Gary_G]

Great to see this post as I am in the same situation. My system is : Focal 926 Speakers with a SVS Micro3000 sub, Parasound P6 preamp and A23+ amp. I can't do any treatments. The room is the big issue, 15'x15'x9'. I am still wrapping my head around proper placement of th sub. I tried the sub crawl and using a mic with pink noise and REW. I ended up mapping out room modes laid out over a plan of the room and then measuring the sub in different locations that would be acceptable. Once I landed on the location I started making modifications to the myriad of options I have. The preamp has high pass settings for the main output and low pass settings for the two sub out. My goal was to get control over the room modes first. attached are some images of room and measurements. I stopped messing with things and jus ttook a break to listen to music for awhile. I think it sounds better, not as boomy.

I know there is more work to be done. Maybe a 2nd sub or MiniDSP Flex for complete control.

A work in progress for sure.

 

[Riggs88]

Great to see this post as I am in the same situation. My system is : Focal 926 Speakers with a SVS Micro3000 sub, Parasound P6 preamp and A23+ amp. I can't do any treatments. The room is the big issue, 15'x15'x9'. I am still wrapping my head around proper placement of th sub. I tried the sub crawl and using a mic with pink noise and REW. I ended up mapping out room modes laid out over a plan of the room and then measuring the sub in different locations that would be acceptable. Once I landed on the location I started making modifications to the myriad of options I have. The preamp has high pass settings for the main output and low pass settings for the two sub out. My goal was to get control over the room modes first. attached are some images of room and measurements. I stopped messing with things and jus ttook a break to listen to music for awhile. I think it sounds better, not as boomy.

I know there is more work to be done. Maybe a 2nd sub or MiniDSP Flex for complete control.

A work in progress for sure.

Nice setup. The data is interesting too.

I bought a WiiM Pro plus for streaming but also for its 5 band PEQ which is quite useful for making room corrections. It might be a more cost effective way of getting what you want.

The integration of the subs is very new to me with 2ch. So I've got a plenty of listening and tweaking to do, with 1-2 subs engaged at different LPF's, just to wrap my head around what exactly are the benefits of using two, rather than 1 sub. That however will have to wait, as I'm off to the Nurburgring tomorrow for some petrolhead fun!

 

[radix]

Great to see this post as I am in the same situation. My system is : Focal 926 Speakers with a SVS Micro3000 sub, Parasound P6 preamp and A23+ amp. I can't do any treatments. The room is the big issue, 15'x15'x9'. I am still wrapping my head around proper placement of th sub. I tried the sub crawl and using a mic with pink noise and REW. I ended up mapping out room modes laid out over a plan of the room and then measuring the sub in different locations that would be acceptable. Once I landed on the location I started making modifications to the myriad of options I have. The preamp has high pass settings for the main output and low pass settings for the two sub out. My goal was to get control over the room modes first. attached are some images of room and measurements. I stopped messing with things and jus ttook a break to listen to music for awhile. I think it sounds better, not as boomy.

I know there is more work to be done. Maybe a 2nd sub or MiniDSP Flex for complete control.

A work in progress for sure.

If you have a mostly rectangular room, you can use the room wizard in REW to predict the room modes and test out sub/speaker placement.

With only one sub, you might try crossing at 60-70 to let the speakers do some work. A second sub could likely fill in that 45-70 Hz range, depending on position. You could also try elevating the sub on a milk crate or something (just to test) and see if that helps.

I think minidsp would end up cutting the speaker down so you get a better balance between the sub and speaker. For example, it would cut things down to about the level of the green 60 Hz, so you'd still have two smaller dips, but it would look better. Assuming you can spare that 6dB or so. A second sub could likely fill in the 45-70 Hz region, if you could find the right place for it.

That P6 has high-pass and low-pass filters. That's really nice. Have you tried increasing the high-pass to maybe 85-90 or the sub down to 70-75 to see if you can tame that hump at 80?