Stereophile's snide editorial on ASR and Amir

[Audiofire]

0.1% THD, readily achievable in 1944. Just makes you appreciate what a mess some of the tube amps are that have been tested here

That is if the distortion is not considered euphonic, which isn't a given for people who are interested in tube amplification...

 

[Galliardist]

Hang on, you are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You are claiming that you are not imagining hearing inaudible things. Show me one properly conducted and controlled listening test, where subjects cannot respond to anything but changes in the sound waves, that shows a high statistical confidence that these infinitesimal changes in the sound waves, that should not be audible without superhuman hearing, are indeed audible.

Your big mistake is to think that your sloppy casual sighted home A/B 'listening' 'tests' are telling you about what is audible in the sound waves. They DO NOT. Your test method is a perfect setup for audio illusions, just as perfect as a David Copperfield 'magic' trick is a visual/cognitive illusion, and your response to your audio 'test' is the equivalent of insisting that Copperfield is actually possessed of supernatural magic powers, that he actually sawed his assistant in half and put her together again, etc.

cheers

I think you've missed my point.

I know for a fact that I have heard "inaudible differences". I didn't consciously make it up. It didn't feel imaginary or vague or anything like that.
Now, I've learnt from both theory and practice that it can't be that the sound waves can explain the experience.

I don't like the word "claim" for the experience. The problem is not what our perception (we use the word "ears" wrongly for this) tells us. The problem is faulty reasoning around that perception: "I heard a difference because Amp A is better than Amp B" rather than " I "heard" a difference because I saw the brand name on Amp A - I associate Amp A with a particular sound - so I heard that sound".

Actually, with sighted tests, as you know, it's worse than that, because testing conditions introduce audible changes: so "I heard a difference because Amp A is better than Amp B" rather than "I heard a difference because I had Amp A playing several dB louder", or "I heard a difference because my preferred DAC puts out 6v and overloaded the input of Amp B".

To the person who doesn't have that extra knowledge or can't process it, the visual/cognitive illusion is no different from the reality, and the experience is "real". That's a big gap for people to exploit -you can fill the hole with supernatural powers, religion, or "custom quantum tunnelling". Even better, you can make your victims perform the illusion on themselves. And that is the basis of much in the hifi field, is it not? "Just add an egg".

Oh, and my favourite Copperfield trick is the one where he makes something massive like a jet "disappear" by putting a big black cloth behind it and turning the lights off. If we're dumb enough to fall for that....

 

[birdog1960]

It must hurt that ASR has more readers than Stereophile.

Now, get back to your Diana Krall on vynil and stop crying.

Don't know Amir but this comment was spot on from what I've seen here: " And of course, criticize products that aren’t transparent and the people who make it. Nothing wrong with harassing, mocking and banning those who disagree with you. That seems to be how audio sites work." How does one exit this ship?

 

[voodooless]

How does one exit this ship?

Ctrl or Command "W" in most cases...

 

[birdog1960]

Ctrl or Command "W" in most cases...

making my point for me.

 

[Audiofire]

Don't know Amir but this comment was spot on from what I've seen here: " And of course, criticize products that aren’t transparent and the people who make it. Nothing wrong with harassing, mocking and banning those who disagree with you. That seems to be how audio sites work." How does one exit this ship?

Well, you can try to get harassed, mocked and banned by writing things that are likely to offend and break other terms of use like you did, or you can press Alt + F4 on Windows...

 

[voodooless]

making my point for me.

Well, you asked... What can I say?

As for this:

And of course, criticize products that aren’t transparent and the people who make it. Nothing wrong with harassing, mocking and banning those who disagree with you. That seems to be how audio sites work.

We criticize when people or companies spout baseless nonsense. Yes, some mocking may be involved, this is the internet, deal with it. I'd like to be mocked when (not if) I make a raging buffoon out of myself. Harassing? Where have you seen that? Please use the report function next to every post. And banned you get when you become rude, or go in circles with the same stupid arguments. There are plenty of people around here that disagree on any number of things. They are still here, and still happily debating.

 

[birdog1960]

Well, you asked... What can I say?

As for this:

We criticize when people or companies spout baseless nonsense. Yes, some mocking may be involved, this is the internet, deal with it. I'd like to be mocked when (not if) I make a raging buffoon out of myself. Harassing? Where have you seen that? Please use the report function next to every post. And banned you get when you become rude, or go in circles with the same stupid arguments. There are plenty of people around here that disagree on any number of things. They are still here, and still happily debating.

ironic that the initial criticism was over a snide remark

 

[fpitas]

That is if the distortion is not considered euphonic, which isn't a given for people who are interested in tube amplification...

True. I would like to think that is the case, that the design choices were intentional. To me it seems cumbersome and scattershot to simply screw up the design of an amp until it gets that "warm glow" (or whatever), but as long as I don't have to own it or pay for it, I'm cool.

 

[Vacceo]

Don't know Amir but this comment was spot on from what I've seen here: " And of course, criticize products that aren’t transparent and the people who make it. Nothing wrong with harassing, mocking and banning those who disagree with you. That seems to be how audio sites work." How does one exit this ship?

Did I offend your golden ears?

 

[birdog1960]

Did I offend your golden ears?

Heard Golden Ears in a ripoff stereo store that also insisted I needed $500 cables. Wasn't impressed. Must be a character flaw. But Diana Krall, I like.

 

[Vacceo]

Heard Golden Ears in a ripoff stereo store that also insisted I needed $500 cables. Wasn't impressed. Must be a character flaw.

No worries, my ears are also clouded like a bad London morning.

 

[Audiofire]

ironic that the initial criticism was over a snide remark

Why? Ironic that you complain here about harassing or mocking when that is what you delivered to the conversation yourself. There are much more constructive conversations than that on the ASR Forum.

 

[birdog1960]

Why? Ironic that you complain here about harassing or mocking when that is what you delivered to the conversation yourself. There are much more constructive conversations than that on the ASR Forum.

just temporarily engaging in the prevalent style of discourse. When in Rome...

 

[Audiofire]

just temporarily engaging in the prevalent style of discourse. When in Rome...

I have read a lot of things on the forum I am indifferent to, but have used the search function sometimes and found some great info as well.

 

[voodooless]

just temporarily engaging in the prevalent style of discourse. When in Rome...

Ah yes, those Romans... lex talionis.

 

[Galliardist]

just temporarily engaging in the prevalent style of discourse. When in Rome...

Not engaging in, but mocking. You're not even doing that very well, either. Diana Krall is definitely a minority taste around these parts. We listen to test tones and distortion graphs here, not music, don't you know?

 

[voodooless]

Not engaging in, but mocking. You're not even doing that very well, either. Diana Krall is definitely a minority taste around these parts. We listen to test tones and distortion graphs here, not music, don't you know?

Hey, stop it, I like Diana Krall

 

[birdog1960]

Ah yes, those Romans... lex talionis.

In American, that translates to "the best defense is a good offense". Not that I necessarily subscribe.

 

[voodooless]

In American, that translates to "the best defense is a good offense". Not that I necessarily subscribe.

Eh, no, that is not at all what it translates to at all, not even in American English