• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Starting with turntables

VMAT4

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2018
Messages
940
Likes
746
Location
South Central Pennsylvania
I'm not into Vinyl. But, you may want to look into something like this:
VC-S_03.jpg

This is a Pro-ject model and sells for about $500 US. These machines can work wonders for a record. But, you'll still be listening to an obsolete format.
 

Sal1950

Grand Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
14,269
Likes
17,063
Location
Central Fl
vinyljoke.jpg

rice krispies.jpeg
 
D

Deleted member 21219

Guest
I'd like to counter this by highlighting that certain cultural practices and pleasures often involve immersing oneself more deeply, cultivating rituals, and embracing such experiences. The essence lies in the idea that embracing certain cultural practices can bring about a richer and more fulfilling enjoyment, even if it involves a bit more effort.

Sounds like dating in the'50s. :D

Jim
 

Snoopy

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
1,645
Likes
1,250

This is rather getting boring to see under every post about turntables and Vinyl :)
I’m sure most people won’t be bothered by 1-2 pops per LP side.

sure if there is a hair or dust stuck on the tip of the stylus the whole LP with sound like popcorn… but keeping a LP clean isn’t that difficult either.

Sometimes Vinyl is all there is for some music.
Not everything got digital releases.
 

Thomas_A

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 20, 2019
Messages
3,495
Likes
2,518
Location
Sweden
  • Like
Reactions: EJ3

Robin L

Master Contributor
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
5,322
Likes
7,760
Location
1 mile east of Sleater Kinney Rd
This is rather getting boring to see under every post about turntables and Vinyl :)
I’m sure most people won’t be bothered by 1-2 pops per LP side.

sure if there is a hair or dust stuck on the tip of the stylus the whole LP with sound like popcorn… but keeping a LP clean isn’t that difficult either.

Sometimes Vinyl is all there is for some music.
Not everything got digital releases.
Yes, I'm finding the repetition of these memes akin to a stuck record.
 

Sal1950

Grand Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
14,269
Likes
17,063
Location
Central Fl
Not everything got digital releases.
You may be right, I don't know.
But not in the last 40 years has there been a piece of music I really wanted to listen
to that didn't eventually end up available from a clean, detailed, noiseless digital source.
I still got like 500 needle drops I saved that I never listen to any more.
YMMV

Yes, I'm finding the repetition of these memes akin to a stuck record.
As do I of the never ending claims of the stuff like above,
"I spent $xxxxxxx on vinyl payback gear for a half dozen albums not on digital."
Besides the fact that audio, it's technology and quality, has moved so far further down the road
than vinyl has ever been of will be, it's just an irrelevant quantity in 2023.

In response to the OP's question, sometimes you get thru to people with humor better
that any other way. It tells the story better and faster than once again listing all the FACTS of
the technical areas where vinyl will keep you forever stuck in the 1960s SQ wise.
If you just want a toy to tinker and play with, fine.
If your desires are really about hearing the music in the best sounding, most convenient, and least expensive way,
digital is by miles the best choice.
flintstone.png
 

Robin L

Master Contributor
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
5,322
Likes
7,760
Location
1 mile east of Sleater Kinney Rd
You may be right, I don't know.
But not in the last 40 years has there been a piece of music I really wanted to listen
to that didn't eventually end up available from a clean, detailed, noiseless digital source.
I still got like 500 needle drops I saved that I never listen to any more.
YMMV


As do I of the never ending claims of the stuff like above,
"I spent $xxxxxxx on vinyl payback gear for a half dozen albums not on digital."
Besides the fact that audio, it's technology and quality, has moved so far further down the road
than vinyl has ever been of will be, it's just an irrelevant quantity in 2023.

In response to the OP's question, sometimes you get thru to people with humor better
that any other way. It tells the story better and faster than once again listing all the FACTS of
the technical areas where vinyl will keep you forever stuck in the 1960s SQ wise.
If you just want a toy to tinker and play with, fine.
If your desires are really about hearing the music in the best sounding, most convenient, and least expensive way,
digital is by miles the best choice.
View attachment 331500
Again, you've repeated yourself to the point where your attempts at "humor" have ceased to be funny. They are now simply annoying. There are people who like their LPs, deal with it. I like my CD transcriptions of 78s, some are very early electrics, like the Bing Crosby CD I got two days ago. Those recordings mark the beginning of electrical recording and the "talkies". Loving music is not always about hearing the music in the best sounding, most convenient, and least expensive way, Sometimes the music isn't all that well recorded in the first place, like the 1928 recording of Tchaikovsky's 5th symphony I got two days ago or the 1930's set of Beethoven sonatas I got the same day.

This is a hobby, you're on a hobby horse and not everyone wants what you want.
 

Sal1950

Grand Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
14,269
Likes
17,063
Location
Central Fl
This is a hobby, you're on a hobby horse and not everyone wants what you want.
I get what your saying.
But, this is ASR and when folks come here "asking" about vinyl, they'll get the
same honest straight answers they'll get on the cable subject.
I'm sure you hear that a lot too..
Guess you'll just have to deal with it.
 

Snoopy

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
1,645
Likes
1,250
You may be right, I don't know.
But not in the last 40 years has there been a piece of music I really wanted to listen
to that didn't eventually end up available from a clean, detailed, noiseless digital source.

In that case let turntable manufacturers , LP publishers and used record stores know that they could have stopped bothering 40 years ago… :)
 

Robin L

Master Contributor
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
5,322
Likes
7,760
Location
1 mile east of Sleater Kinney Rd
I get what your saying.
But, this is ASR and when folks come here "asking" about vinyl, they'll get the
same honest straight answers they'll get on the cable subject.
I'm sure you hear that a lot too..
Guess you'll just have to deal with it.
I don't bother worrying about wire anymore. I used to be a "true believer", gave that up a long time ago.

Like I wrote a while ago:

Ten Signs that you may be suffering from Audiophilus Nervosa, the neurotic behavior of the self-described "Audiophile":

#1: You have a box full of line level interconnects but can only use two pair at any given time.
#2: You have multiple LP copies of the same title, being wrapped up in the search for "The Perfect Copy".
#3: You have, at one time or another, used a green marker on your CDs or attached "rings" to said CDs, and can hear the difference.
#4: You have adjusted VTA on your tonearm so many times, you have worn out the screws.
#5: You are "into" swapping tubes.
#6: You have "Upgraded" your electronic gear with "High-End" passive parts.
#7: You have a re-clocking device between your digital source and your DAC, and the DAC set you back $10,000.00
#8: There are scratch marks all over your floor from constantly re-positioning your heavy floorstanding speakers
#9: You KNOW LPs sound better.
#10: You get into a pointless argument on ASR and then get blocked.
I figure 99.9% of the folks around here have already figured that one out.
 

Robin L

Master Contributor
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
5,322
Likes
7,760
Location
1 mile east of Sleater Kinney Rd
Also note my earlier response on this thread, advising Alaios to look into getting a CD player.

Let me offer a bit of background. From around 2005 to 2019 I had a side hustle of transcribing LPs to other digital media for various clients. Most of the transfers were to CDs. Before that I had many years - going back to 1970 - of collecting LPs and finding the sound often dissatisfying. When I was doing these transfers, I encountered some of the worst LPs I have ever heard, along with some really weird formats like home disc recordings that had the groove move from the center to the edge. Some of the discs were damaged or worn, some - like the many high school choral recitals I transcribed - were horribly recorded to begin with. I don't think I would have had access to real time de-clicking at the time, but I did use click repair and that was fairly effective. I'm sure there are more effective means of reducing surface noise now. And I frequently used the services of a record store that would use an ultrasonic cleaner, using new sleeves. That mode of record cleaning was the most effective I've encountered.

Having all this experience with how bad LPs can sound, it's worth noting that some of the best sound I've heard was from a turntable-based system. I also have experience with recording orchestras, pianos, chamber ensembles and choirs, for radio, grant writing and commercial CDs. I've worked with some excellent recording engineers. So, I have some Idea of what's possible. And I can honestly say that in spite of everything, it is possible to get great sound from LPs.

Here's the catch - one cannot get great sound from LPs cheaply. However, one can get great sound from digital sources for cheap.
 

Salt

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 7, 2023
Messages
633
Likes
352
Location
DE
So it is the time to get my first turntable. This is my amplifer: leak 130 and it say that it has a
Moving Magnet (MM) phono pre-amplifier

1. I do not know what that means. Probably that I can buy a turntable without one
2. Budget is around 500 euros/dollars
3. Which is the ones that are the most compact ones as my table is small to find a very large unit. If compact costs more I am then fine of spending more. I am mostly constrained in width.

Thanks a lot
Regards
Alex
30 replies later 1 question:
what's Your motivation to go the vinyl way?
 

Sal1950

Grand Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
14,269
Likes
17,063
Location
Central Fl
Having all this experience with how bad LPs can sound, it's worth noting that some of the best sound I've heard was from a turntable-based system.
Considering all the known, absolutely verifiable sonic issues with the LP media, both on the cutting side and playback side, doesn't that tell you there's a fly in the ointment of that statement?
We're having that same debate with a new member here today.
 

Robin L

Master Contributor
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
5,322
Likes
7,760
Location
1 mile east of Sleater Kinney Rd
Considering all the known, absolutely verifiable sonic issues with the LP media, both on the cutting side and playback side, doesn't that tell you there's a fly in the ointment of that statement?
We're having that same debate with a new member here today.
I think my reaction points to the limits of what one can find audibly pleasing. I am perfectly aware of the measurable issues of the LP media, but I can only state what I have heard myself. I'm pretty sure you never have heard the best in LP reproduction, which explains why you accepted the sound of digital playback so soon after introduction. On the other hand, I somehow managed to become friends with people working at the design and manufacturing level who continued to develop and improve LP playback well after the introduction of CDs. You and Matt Hooper have been going 'round and 'round on this issue since God knows when, and I have little doubt that Matt has the sort of playback gear and media that would demonstrate how good LPs can sound. But I doubt you have heard such gear yourself. Hearing such gear and LPs at shows/exhibitions hardly ever counts as the set-up and the room are important factors. Of course, listening with an open mind is an even more important factor.

In any case, within the parameters of the OP, I do not think the OP would get satisfactory results considering their budget limitations and hasn't explained exactly why they would want a turntable in the first place.
 

Sal1950

Grand Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
14,269
Likes
17,063
Location
Central Fl
But I doubt you have heard such gear yourself. Hearing such gear and LPs at shows/exhibitions hardly ever counts as the set-up and the room are important factors. Of course, listening with an open mind is an even more important factor.
Now you sound just like all the rest of the audiophools on the believer sites, it's either my gear or my ears that I can't hear what you describe. All the million dollar rigs I hear at the audio shows each year, with 50+ years of listening experience, nothing counts except what you say you can hear. I thought we were above that crap here. :facepalm:
Yea, on a very very expensive rig, one in one million of all the LP's pressed in the last 100 years can sound "almost" as good as any well produced CD or stream on a CHEAP digital front end. All the rest of them are noisy, have bad speed consistency, tracking problems, inner groove distortions, mono'd bass, de-essd highs, etc, etc, etc., besides getting worse with each play. They are not a decent reproduction of what was on the master tape/file after all the required manipulations are done to make them playable., Never have been and never will be no matter how much you spend.
 

AaronJ

Active Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2021
Messages
299
Likes
548
I get what your saying.
But, this is ASR and when folks come here "asking" about vinyl, they'll get the
same honest straight answers they'll get on the cable subject.
I'm sure you hear that a lot too..
Guess you'll just have to deal with it.
He did not ask if he should buy a turntable. He asked about buying a turntable that would suit his specific needs, presumably with his mind made up that it's something he wants to do based on how the entire post was written. What he received are a bunch of answers and advice to questions he didn't even ask.
 

Sal1950

Grand Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
14,269
Likes
17,063
Location
Central Fl
He did not ask if he should buy a turntable. He asked about buying a turntable that would suit his specific needs, presumably with his mind made up that it's something he wants to do based on how the entire post was written. What he received are a bunch of answers and advice to questions he didn't even ask.
Just IMHO very good advice before he makes a mistake based on things he may have read elsewhere.
Once he's armed with the accurate info he's free to make his own decisions.
 

Salt

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 7, 2023
Messages
633
Likes
352
Location
DE
I'm not into Vinyl. But, you may want to look into something like this:
VC-S_03.jpg

This is a Pro-ject model and sells for about $500 US. These machines can work wonders for a record. But, you'll still be listening to an obsolete format.
Discussion is about turntables, not record cleaning mashines, what would be worth another two or three threads ;) .
 

restorer-john

Grand Contributor
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Messages
12,796
Likes
39,219
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Nearly 42 years ago, a digital consumer music format was introduced which was demonstrably superior in every measurable and audible parameter to the pre-eminent formats of the time. Nobody argues with that.

The fact that people continue to enjoy and pursue other music carrying formats all those decades later is testament to the attraction of relative simplicity of those formats and the incredible satisfaction that can come from using products from a simpler time. I love the fact kids today are doing exactly that- listening and buying vinyl in huge quantities.

I enjoy open reel, cassette, compact disc, DAT, vinyl reproduction, broadcast radio and very rarely, computer/file based playback. The latter gives me zero joy. There is no interaction, no challenge, no history and no fun. It's a hollow experience for me.

I listen to music when I want to be moved, when I want to become emotional and when I want, or need to listen to music. It is never played in the background.
 
Top Bottom