Speakers: Technology Vs Implementation

[BKr0n]

There are lots of different types of speakers. Some tout the technology is simply better, others say they implement it the best. A lot of people say companies like RAAL, Bliesma, Purifi, etc. are the best, but I've also seen a lot out there that can give them a run for their money. What's the fact and what's the fiction? Is it all about what they're made of, or is it about how it's used or both?

 

[Chrispy]

You talking about drivers particularly? Or finished speakers?

 

[HoweSound]

Nature vs nurture - seriously? do you think this is a worthy debate?

 

[nerdemoji]

well, purifi does have very low distortion drivers, though they are quite expensive

 

[AudiOhm]

There is no ultimate driver configuration, design, material, etc.
If that is what you are talking about.

Ohms

 

[BKr0n]

You talking about drivers particularly? Or finished speakers?

Mostly drivers, but open to anything.

Nature vs nurture - seriously? do you think this is a worthy debate?

...yeah. If it generates a discussion everyone can learn something from and enjoy, then why not? That and, as far as I can tell, they still DO debate nature vs nurture

well, purifi does have very low distortion drivers, though they are quite expensive

Price to performance definitely seems alive and well in the audio space

There is no ultimate driver configuration, design, material, etc.
If that is what you are talking about.

Oh yeah I definitely get that. What I was more getting at is the specific trends between different manufacturers when it comes to construction. The age old debate of soft/hard dome and ribbon come to mind as a popular one.

 

[Dimitri]

ultimate driver configuration,

I like all ribbon twitters equally

 

[BKr0n]

I like all ribbon twitters equally

I'm assuming positively?

 

[Chrispy]

Mostly drivers, but open to anything.

Okay, wtf does that mean?

 

[Dimitri]

I'm assuming positively?

Yes,

 

[kemmler3D]

There are better and worse drivers, but ultimately they're just parts of a functional product.

Just like putting a spoiler on your car doesn't make it go faster (except in situations that spoilers are designed for), using a better driver in a bad speaker design won't make it sound better.

A better analogy - putting a bigger engine in the car should make it go faster. However, you also need the transmission, fuel system, brakes, wheels, and tires to keep up with the engine for the car to actually go faster.

In general speaker designers need to choose drivers for their strengths and work around their weaknesses to get the best overall result they can. The crossover and cabinet can all ruin the performance of a great driver if done incorrectly.

So ultimately, let's say that the quality of drivers defines the ceiling of performance ... there is no floor, if the implementation is bad enough.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

Sometimes patent infringement may stop certain developments being used in concert with others.

Other than that, it's like @kemmler3D noted above: all parts must fit the overall design to be truly great. A sports team made up of the greatest individuals of all time won't work well if those individuals can't co-operate with each other as a team.

So it can get complicated ....

Jim

 

[Dimitri]

The age old debate of soft/hard dome and ribbon come to mind as a popular one.

You left horns out, but ultimately if you can play with the tone controls or DSP and the twitter doesn't go into convulsions or blow out, what it's "made out of" shouldn't matter

 

[AudiOhm]

Different manufacturers have a multitude of differently educated engineers/designers, therefore you will see a difference in material (soft hard/dome/ribbon etc.)

I made my own speakers, that I like, based on my personal opinion of what I think is best, no ribbon tweeter in my designs, that does not make it wrong, just different...

Ohms

 

[Somafunk]

I want a small 3 way monitor similar to my Dynaudio LYD 48’s built with purifi 4” & 8” drivers, bliesma tweeters (beryllium?), not decided on amp module but want streaming capability built in with roon/Apple Music etc, nice round aluminium remote control knob for simple control of volume skip/back and pause - if you want to get fancy then an oled display in the round knob would be nice for menu control etc.

Do all that for £4k-£5k and I’d buy it.

 

[BKr0n]

There are better and worse drivers, but ultimately they're just parts of a functional product.

Just like putting a spoiler on your car doesn't make it go faster (except in situations that spoilers are designed for), using a better driver in a bad speaker design won't make it sound better.

A better analogy - putting a bigger engine in the car should make it go faster. However, you also need the transmission, fuel system, brakes, wheels, and tires to keep up with the engine for the car to actually go faster.

In general speaker designers need to choose drivers for their strengths and work around their weaknesses to get the best overall result they can. The crossover and cabinet can all ruin the performance of a great driver if done incorrectly.

So ultimately, let's say that the quality of drivers defines the ceiling of performance ... there is no floor, if the implementation is bad enough.

Very true. Actually one of our conversations from a prior post, a bit of reading from the loudspeaker cookbook, and a conversation with Alex over at RAAL, got me really critically thinking about not just the tech used to make a speaker, but all of the physics that go hand in hand in terms of materials selected and placement in relation to the shape of the enclosure.

Sometimes patent infringement may stop certain developments being used in concert with others.

Could you elaborate on that one? Other than maybe something like Manger or MBL or Purifi, I can't find a lot of those. I'm sure there's plenty.

I want a small 3 way monitor similar to my Dynaudio LYD 48’s built with purifi 4” & 8” drivers, bliesma tweeters (beryllium?), not decided on amp module but want streaming capability built in with roon/Apple Music etc, nice round aluminium remote control knob for simple control of volume skip/back and pause - if you want to get fancy then an oled display in the round knob would be nice for menu control etc.

Do all that for £4k-£5k and I’d buy it.

I'm totally not doing that right now. Who me? No never lol

Edit: not the streaming part. Will do DSP though. Aliexpress has some boards with decent dsps from ADI on them. No screen either.

 

[mhardy6647]

Okay, wtf does that mean?

He means that, deep down inside, he's interested in Karlson enclosures.
Mind you -- I am speculating.

source: https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Electronics/50s/1955/Radio-Electronics-1955-10.pdf

 

[DVDdoug]

Most pro studio monitors are rather traditional designs so with all of the choices & compromises I assume that's usually the best way to go.

 

[BKr0n]

He means that, deep down inside, he's interested in Karlson enclosures.
Mind you -- I am speculating.

YOU... are hilarious

If we're talking weird speaker designs, I think my favorite has to be the airblade

View attachment 340624

Looks hungry.

Most pro studio monitors are rather traditional designs so with all of the choices & compromises I assume that's usually the best way to go.

Genelec is a prime example to me. Can't think of their last redesign. Stone age probably.

 

[boxerfan88]

There are lots of different types of speakers. Some tout the technology is simply better, others say they implement it the best. A lot of people say companies like RAAL, Bliesma, Purifi, etc. are the best, but I've also seen a lot out there that can give them a run for their money. What's the fact and what's the fiction? Is it all about what they're made of, or is it about how it's used or both?

This is my personal perspective. Different types of speakers are like different types of dishes (food).

The speaker drivers and components are like the food ingredients (type of meat, cuts of meat, vegetables, salt, pepper, spices, etc.).

The speaker designer is like the chef ... using the speaker drivers & components to design a speaker system to a particular sound profile "taste".

And on the consumer side, different people prefer different dishes and flavors ... that is why there are so many types of speakers.

In my limited interaction with the audiophile community I am in touch with, I have heard:

• I like "live performance" therefore I hate box speakers, I prefer open baffle/omni as it is closer to "live performance"
• I like studio monitors that producers use so that I can hear what the producers intended.
• I like speakers that throw a "huge soundstage"
• I like "warm and musical" presentation
• I like "pin point imaging"
• Some like audio jewellery "statement pieces".
• etc...

No one speaker can do all of the above .... I guess that's why speakers are so varied in design and prices.