There are significant differences between the DL200 and the DO300/DL300, the biggest being the DAC chip used in each. The DL200 uses the ESS ES9039Q2M which in theory, is less capable than the AKM AK4499EX used in the DL300 and the ES9039MSPRO used in the DO300.
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SMSL DL200 the best ever value DAC/AMP?
- Thread starter nerdemoji
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The tube amp probably has pretty high output impedance, which results in a bass boost on the DT880: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ynamic-dt-880-600-ohm-review-headphone.24694/
(they have a higher impedance in the lower frequencies which causes the supplied voltage from a tube amp to be higher for that area, which causes the bass to be elevated.)
I can definitely recommend the DT990 over the DT880. They are much more fun to listen to, with much more bass.
I have the 250 Ohm Edition (not the Pro version) and it's great fun with the DL200.
I haven't done extensive testing comparing them with tube amp vs DL200, but they are fun on both amps.
those are, in fact, insignificant differences.
All the mentioned DAC chips are completely transparent and measure WAY beyond what any human could ever dream of hearing. (filters are a different story, but they have the same filters anyways)
What the 300 series offers over the 200 series is:
1. a much better display (those cost a LOT compared to the simple one in the DL200)
2. XLR pre-outs instead of TRS (both are balanced, but XLR is more secure if you move cables around a lot in a live environment)
3. fancy sound modification to emulate tubes or something?! (srsly?!)
4. I2S input? never heard of this.. must be important!
Both have essentially the same output power on the headphone amp and are equally transparent in the DAC departement..
I guess, if you need both XLR + RCA output separately, that's a big win. (I could've used that, because I have my tube amp on the RCA and my studio monitors on the TRS output... but, oh well.. it doesn't hurt to power them off every now and then.)
nick_l44.1
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Not really. The DL200 loses noticeably by ear to the e1da 9039s. Even when compared to the TRS output. My 9039S shows a THD+N -125 dB, the dl200 (TRS) is quite a bit worse. Even on digitizations, the difference is noticeable. I didn't expect to hear that myself.
You're on ASR here, not on Head-Fi...
Your expectation bias sure made you expect shit!
Let me rephrase that:
In order to hear a THD+N of -80 dB (something considered to be "bad" by Amir), you need to drive the signal to a volume where a sound 80dB quieter than the signal can actually be audible!
Whenever you listen at regular non-damaging levels of 70-80dB, you cannot possibly hear a noise floor at -80dB
If you listen beyond 100dB, then yes! You might hear the noise at -80dB
If the THD+N is at -100dB?!
You need to listen at volumes that cause permanent hearing damage only to be able to hear that noise floor..
nick_l44.1
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Of course, this information is subjective, but this is not a reason to close ears. Also a double-blind comparison may becomes a proof.
One way or another, this is a good reason to look for the reason for this sound. Moreover, the DL200 shows fairly high measurements, not much inferior to the e1da 9039s. The only thing I could notice was some digital spikes at output DL200, here is an oscillogram. The 9039s does not have such spikes, although its line is just as thick - this is a feature of the es9039q2m.
I can't hear it directly, but I can feel its presence by its effect on the quiet sounds of the recordings without any extreme volumes.
staticV3
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Use the lowest gain that still allows you to reach satisfying volume.
+4dB it is!
both will experience a boost in bass. While the 880 can really use that (since it's so flat/weak in bass), the DT990 definitely doesn't need even more bass (imho)
I have both the DL200 & DL300. They do sound different. It depends on the genre, but the DL300 seems best for acoustic music. More detailed and 'earthy' sounding. I don't know how much of that comes down to the DAC chip, but its noticeable. Everyone here will tell you that there is no sonic difference, based on measurements ("All these DAC chips are transparent", etc.). So, dont bother trying to debate here. The only way you can know for know for sure, is by 1st hand experience. Don't judge on specs alone. Whichever one you like better, IS better. For you. - Recently, I've been listening to a specific synthpop album, and it sounds better to me on a Topping E50/L30II combo than either of these 2 units (either standalone or amp'd by the L30II). Am I right or wrong? It doesn't matter. I like it better, and that's all that matters.
you're definitely wrong, but that's okay.. bc you are right on one point:
all that matters is that YOU like it!
if your subconscious, placebo, expectation bias, whatever causes you to prefer one thing over another, that's fine.
Just don't go around claiming that the difference is actually real.
in a sighted test, all rationale gets thrown out the window..
maybe you like the design better, maybe the brand speaks to you more through marketing, maybe the price "must" mean something, bigger knobs are awesome, etc..
also, in a blind test, often times people fail at the most crucial part: volume matching..
go to www.audiocheck.com and make the tests to see how your hearing holds up.
Many people can hear as little as 0.1dB in volume differences. (I suck, I can only easily hear 0.5dB)
to match the volume to this degree, you'll have to match the output voltage to fractions of milli volts for many headphones! If you don't, the louder one will always win.
Now, I do agree that we can just skip all the testing and simply use what we LIKE objectively.. in the end, it's all about loving music and enjoying it.
If a horrible tube amp gives me greater enjoyment bc of the glow and the distortion, fuck measurements
You really don't get it, do you?!
You should really move over to head-fi where you can find likeminded people to praise the "audio gawds" living in your chips and cables.
I asked you to reflect on whether you can actually be sure whether your "test" was in ANY way relevant or significant. And your reply shows me that you had to find that, no, it definitely was not.
Instead of going back to your test and doing it "right" to make sure, you decide to throw around stupid arguments to devalue science.
Are you an anti-vaxxer, too?!
First of all, You didn't ask me ANYTHING. - Secondly, I don't have to (or care to) do any other test, other than to see if I like it. The advantage I have, is that I have the units to judge for myself. You don't (that's why I posted the waveform asked if you can tell me what it sounds like). Unlike you, I'm not arguing, getting mad, or fighting back. I'm just giving advice based on my experience. However, You're just being a meanieYou really don't get it, do you?!
You should really move over to head-fi where you can find likeminded people to praise the "audio gawds" living in your chips and cables.
I asked you to reflect on whether you can actually be sure whether your "test" was in ANY way relevant or significant. And your reply shows me that you had to find that, no, it definitely was not.
Instead of going back to your test and doing it "right" to make sure, you decide to throw around stupid arguments to devalue science.
Are you an anti-vaxxer, too?!
- Telling me I'm wrong, and that I don't get it.Actually, I have it. I have many of them (about a dozen amps & dacs, and 30 headphones & speakers)!
You can't win this fight. Give up...
I thought you were making sense till the "Anti-vaxxer" comment. Really? That is so 2017.. Everyone knows now. The gig is up. I am 100% proud to never get any of that crap poison in me.You really don't get it, do you?!
You should really move over to head-fi where you can find likeminded people to praise the "audio gawds" living in your chips and cables.
I asked you to reflect on whether you can actually be sure whether your "test" was in ANY way relevant or significant. And your reply shows me that you had to find that, no, it definitely was not.
Instead of going back to your test and doing it "right" to make sure, you decide to throw around stupid arguments to devalue science.
Are you an anti-vaxxer, too?!
Back to audio.
You are saying essentially that ALL DAC's sound the same and one cannot tell the difference between them. (Given all other variables match, volume, ect.).. Right?
I highly doubt that is true based on different sound floor alone. Can I prove it? No. I actually kinda agree with you in some ways. Past a certain point of measurement what else matters?
I ordered the DL200, I'm so happy to get a new device!
My first dac was Nuforce uDac 2. It sounded great with Genelec G1. Then I got the Pro-Ject Box-Design Head Box S2 Digital, also great with G1. I then bought Genelec G2. It sounded great with them also. Then I bought the Topping DX3 Pro+. I remember the moment I first listened to it. I didn't understand it. I thought they all sound the same. All my music sounded so boring and dead with that. I can't explain why. I'm sure it worked. I stopped listening to music pretty much because of it. It sounded great, but something in the back of my head felt empty and wrong when listening from DX3 Pro+, I think that is the best way to describe the feeling. I hope that the DL200 makes me listen again.
My first dac was Nuforce uDac 2. It sounded great with Genelec G1. Then I got the Pro-Ject Box-Design Head Box S2 Digital, also great with G1. I then bought Genelec G2. It sounded great with them also. Then I bought the Topping DX3 Pro+. I remember the moment I first listened to it. I didn't understand it. I thought they all sound the same. All my music sounded so boring and dead with that. I can't explain why. I'm sure it worked. I stopped listening to music pretty much because of it. It sounded great, but something in the back of my head felt empty and wrong when listening from DX3 Pro+, I think that is the best way to describe the feeling. I hope that the DL200 makes me listen again.
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I have a degree in Biochem and Molecular Biology and can assure you that getting vaccinated has noting to do with "crap poison".. the amount of poison you get injected with is far lower than what you get from drinking a single beer.
But that wasn't my point.
Dear Lambo1985 travels AudioSCIENCEreview propagating his own personal BELIEFS and trying to convince that what he BELIEVES is superior to the SCIENCE that this site is all about.
People like me came here to get away from this stupidity that has taken over Head-Fi and other places.
If these people could just accept the scientific FACT that there are dozens of factors affecting what they PERCEIVE in their "tests", that would already make everything a lot easier. But they behave like braindead cult-members who insist that science is fine as long as it doesn't interfere with their beliefs!
And no, I didn't say that all DACs sound the same.
I said that the human hearing is so bad that beyond a certain noise floor, we cannot possibly make out any differences anymore. Not in trained listening tests and most definitely NOT in listening to music! Just like there has never been a blind ABX test that ended successfully for any participants.
Everything that's been done on here where people had a high hit rate with acoustically transparent devices turned out to be mostly due to "cheating"... (where people would look at the waveforms OR focus on the silent parts of the sample files to differentiate the noisefloors at volumes they would never listen to)
And every other scientifically sound ABX blind test ever conducted failed to provide ANY indication that there were people out there that can reliably tell the difference.
In actual listening tests (blind ABX), even after training sighted (and finding clear differences!), people couldn't even discern between crappy measuring PA amplifiers and super clean measuring high-end amps costing 100x as much.
Now, I'm not gonna accept that our dear Lambo here is the chosen one, the one and only human being among millions that can actually hear the differences between dozens of devices clearly!
Humans have this sickening tendency to ALWAYS believe that they are "at least" better than average.. in everything.. That's fine by me.. who wants to admit to be below average, right?!
But when random people insist that they belong to the top 0.001% of the population and refuse to provide any proof, that rubs me the wrong way!
And no, @Qu@rk , this is not off-topic at all.
This topic is about the DL200 being "the best ever value DAC/AMP" because it provides transparency and all the features most anyone could wish for at an incredibly competitive price.
And dear Lambo here is arguing that it's well worth spending twice as much for the SAME features and the same transparency, because HE, the chosen golden Lambo of the audiogods, can clearly HEAR the difference.
Yes I've had both and using a C200 right now for a DAC with an SMSL Drop HO150X. The DL200 volume wheel is less than half the size of the C200 but it's easy to reach and far from the headphone jacks to make up for it. It's about the same size as on a Schiit Magni Heresy, but easy to get used to because of the good location.
Sounds to me like you expected an improvement from a device that couldn't possibly bring you what you hoped for and your disappointment turned you away from enjoying music.
I'm fairly convinced that the DL200 won't "improve" your sound.. even if the DAC could make the tiniest bit of a difference, the fact that the DX3pro + uses the "same" chip as the DL200... I dunno, man..
(ESS9038Q2M vs ESS9039Q2M is not really a difference worth mentioning)
Considering that you are using professional grade ultra-linear studio monitors, I'd suggest you start looking into different speakers that provide a more "lively" sound signature.
If you feel like the Genelecs are "the real deal", then I'd suggest experimenting with placement of speakers, acoustic treatment of the room, and other measures that actually affect the sound.
