Roon 1.3 Adds DSP PEQ, Sonos, Multi-channel, and more

[dallasjustice]

Convolution
https://kb.roonlabs.com/DSP_Engine:_Convolution

 

[watchnerd]

Convolution
https://kb.roonlabs.com/DSP_Engine:_Convolution

Oooh, thanks, now need to read (and install the software upgrade)....

 

[oivavoi]

Question from a non-Roon user: what's the best argument for using Roon? Currently streaming tidal and local files through sonos connect and the sonos interface.

 

[dallasjustice]

Question from a non-Roon user: what's the best argument for using Roon? Currently streaming tidal and local files through sonos connect and the sonos interface.

Arguments are for convincing other people. The good news is you only need to convince yourself. You can try it for free.

 

[amirm]

Question from a non-Roon user: what's the best argument for using Roon? Currently streaming tidal and local files through sonos connect and the sonos interface.

A few things for me:

1. It is focused on audio alone so it is not a massively bloated app with tons of other features.
2. Its user interface is the same on every device. You can for example configure your audio device from a tablet -- something I do all the time. Other apps have slimmed down "browsers" on other devices with different user interface than Windows/Mac version.
3. It is elegantly architected. When updates come for example, it will ask you about it on any device you are holding and when you say yes, it updates all versions in just a few seconds. No reboot. No going to your windows machine to run another setup. Nothing. It simply shuts down, upgrades itself and runs.
4. It has rich metadata about every album and artist.

See my write-up here: http://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...ic-player-and-library-management-software.18/

 

[oivavoi]

Thanks! The metadata seems like the best reason (ok not argument DJ) for me to give it a try. I love sonos, but metadata is lacking, and it's horrible for organizing and accessing classical music.

 

[amirm]

You are welcome but be forewarned that most classical lovers don't like Roon. I think their comments are in my thread above. Get a trial version and see if it fits your needs.

 

[oivavoi]

Ah, thats a bummer in that case. Guess I just need to give it a try.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

You are welcome but be forewarned that most classical lovers don't like Roon. I think their comments are in my thread above. Get a trial version and see if it fits your needs.

You are being highly ethical in providing that caution. Here is a recent thread in another forum that I added some comments to:

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/16/162901.html

I suspect Roon can be made to work for a small classical library. But, not a large one.

People keep saying Roon is working on classical. Classical really just needs a few more standard tag fields than pop music albums do. The problem is that the raw metadata provided by disc authors and databases is rather messy and inconsistent from disc to disc. So, unless Roon or someone invests massively in data cleanup, the results will be poor at the user end. And, given classical's small market share, is that massive effort worth it? BTW, essentially the same problem exists with searching Tidal for classical.

Bottom line. In my opinion, maintaining a large classical library will never be smooth sailing via automatic Roon tagging. You will always have to edit or amend the standard tags provided with the disc or download in classical. So, I do not find Roon the best choice for me for classical. JRiver is, at least for now.

 

[oivavoi]

You are being highly ethical in providing that caution. Here is a recent thread in another forum that I added some comments to:

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/16/162901.html

I suspect Roon can be made to work for a small classical library. But, not a large one.

People keep saying Roon is working on classical. Classical really just needs a few more standard tag fields than pop music albums do. The problem is that the raw metadata provided by disc authors and databases is rather messy and inconsistent from disc to disc. So, unless Roon or someone invests massively in data cleanup, the results will be poor at the user end. And, given classical's small market share, is that massive effort worth it? BTW, essentially the same problem exists with searching Tidal for classical.

Bottom line. In my opinion, maintaining a large classical library will never be smooth sailing via automatic Roon tagging. You will always have to edit or amend the standard tags provided with the disc or download in classical. So, I do not find Roon the best choice for me for classical. JRiver is, at least for now.

Question: How does Roon organize classical albums from within Tidal? I came rather late to the classical party, so most of my classical listening is via Tidal (while I have lots of jazz, rock and electronica that is ripped from CDs). Does Roon do a better job than the native Tidal app when it comes to searching for streamed classical music?

 

[watchnerd]

Hmmmm...

So many places to do DSP now, each with different capabilities and pros / cons.

Should I use Roon as my main DSP engine?

Can it do everything my miniDSP (currently unused) can do?

Either approach would benefit my digital streaming (90% of my listening) but do nothing for LPs.

Or should I invest in something like the JBL 705P/708P that seems to have some level of EQ / Room EQ built-in?

Probably not as powerful as Roon or miniDSP (but who knows, we haven't seen details), but would apply to LPs, too....

 

[watchnerd]

You are welcome but be forewarned that most classical lovers don't like Roon. I think their comments are in my thread above. Get a trial version and see if it fits your needs.

Ah, thats a bummer in that case. Guess I just need to give it a try.

I recognize that most classical music lovers don't like Roon.

However, about 50% of listening is classical and I find it fine. More than fine. I prefer it.

My suspicion is that people who use a tree-based approach, with carefully named directories and file names, may find Roon frustrating because it doesn't care about directory structures or file names or where music resides.

Me, personally, I think that's one of it's strong points -- I like the fact that location is obscured.

However, if meta-tagging is bad, missing, or incomplete, and one isn't comfortable using a search based approach, as opposed to browsing a tree, it would be annoying.

It find it analogous to finding information via Dewey Decimal System vs Google.

 

[oivavoi]

Thanks. I prefer google over the dewey system.

 

[watchnerd]

Thanks. I prefer google over the dewey system.

I think there is another important distinction:

In a search system, you need to know what you're looking for.

What it's not so good at is showing you things you didn't know you had or didn't think to look / search for.

 

[Vincent Kars]

You are welcome but be forewarned that most classical lovers don't like Roon. I think their comments are in my thread above. Get a trial version and see if it fits your needs.

Another example: http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=162901

 

[watchnerd]

Another example: http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=162901

The JR MC screenshot in that thread is a perfect example of the kind of tree-view I was talking about.

If that's your preferred way of navigating (as opposed to using search), Roon isn't good at that kind of user experience.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Question: How does Roon organize classical albums from within Tidal? I came rather late to the classical party, so most of my classical listening is via Tidal (while I have lots of jazz, rock and electronica that is ripped from CDs). Does Roon do a better job than the native Tidal app when it comes to searching for streamed classical music?

I am not an expert on either Roon or Tidal separately or together, but I have considered both a little. So, I cannot answer your question adequately.

All that I was trying to say was that Tidal searches for classical music are inadequate, as they are with Roon. I think the underlying causes are the same - lack of sufficient and consistent metadata for each and every album. That likely goes deeper into the issue that the whole metadata scheme - the standard tag fields - used in the recording industry are rock/pop, meaning not classically, oriented. Hence, there are gazillions of albums already out there that do not have sufficient, well organized data to be useful today.

 

[watchnerd]

I think the underlying causes are the same - lack of sufficient and consistent metadata for each and every album. That likely goes deeper into the issue that the whole metadata scheme - the standard tag fields - used in the recording industry are rock/pop, meaning not classically, oriented. Hence, there are gazillions of albums already out there that do not have sufficient, well organized data to be useful today.

This is also true.

Much of the downloadable classic I've bought, much of it straight from the labels, is horrible tagged from the source.

Which is a much bigger problem than Roon, Tidal, J River, etc.

Ironically, the more strict private trackers have more stringent criteria for classical tagging than the labels seem to have for themselves.

 

[oivavoi]

I am not an expert on either Roon or Tidal separately or together, but I have considered both a little. So, I cannot answer your question adequately.

All that I was trying to say was that Tidal searches for classical music are inadequate, as they are with Roon. I think the underlying causes are the same - lack of sufficient and consistent metadata for each and every album. That likely goes deeper into the issue that the whole metadata scheme - the standard tag fields - used in the recording industry are rock/pop, meaning not classically, oriented. Hence, there are gazillions of albums already out there that do not have sufficient, well organized data to be useful today.

Good point. I guess what I'm asking, more precisely, is whether Roon does its own indexing of the albums in Tidal - or does it just use whatever metadata or album classification Tidal provides them with? If so, garbage in garbage out. In Tidal and Sonos there is no way of searching for "Bach" or "Poulenc" and getting all the albums which contain works by these composers for example - not to mention the possibility do a refined search within these albums for specific performers etc. But if Roon does its own indexing, it's possible that it may be better than Tidal's own search system. And it may improve even more in the future.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

I recognize that most classical music lovers don't like Roon.

However, about 50% of listening is classical and I find it fine. More than fine. I prefer it.

My suspicion is that people who use a tree-based approach, with carefully named directories and file names, may find Roon frustrating because it doesn't care about directory structures or file names or where music resides.

Me, personally, I think that's one of it's strong points -- I like the fact that location is obscured.

However, if meta-tagging is bad, missing, or incomplete, and one isn't comfortable using a search based approach, as opposed to browsing a tree, it would be annoying.

It find it analogous to finding information via Dewey Decimal System vs Google.

If it works for you, fine. It does not work for me, based on the details. But, I suspect my classical library is quite a bit larger than yours.

Agreed, and I do not advocate at all a single-dimensional Windows-style heirarchical file structure. I advocate a tagged, multi-dimensional database architecture with links to the media files, in a separate location wherever they might be on your network.

My panel of experts say that for classical music, MusiChi is best, particularly in enabling the correction and ordering of the notoriously bad author-supplied tag data. But, it is somewhat limited in other ways, especially as to media types.