Qobuz or Tidal?

[Zensō]

I have tried Amazon Music and ran into a serious (and deal-breaking) problem with it. I am surprised that I have not seen anybody else write about this.

When listening to an album that is only available in CD-quality (oddly called HD) they will replace individual tracks with high definition versions if available on other albums. On my first go-around two years ago, I found five or six instances where they had replaced a track with an incorrect version of the song. That was within the first hour of using the service. Sadly, things have not gotten better.
Check out the remastered version of The Beatles’ Abbey Road. Somehow, three tracks are in Ultra HD and Dolby Atmos, while the others are all in HD. Clearly, those three tracks are from the 2019 remix of the album, while all of the other tracks are from the 2009 CD release.
On the special edition of Something Else by the Kinks, several of the mono mixes have been replaced with ultra HD stereo mixes. The tracks still say mono, but are definitely stereo.
Another example is the Bootleg Series recording of Bob Dylan‘s Rolling Thunder Review. They replaced one of the tracks with a different high definition version. Clearly the track A Hard Rain’s A-Gonna Fall is from a different release than the other tracks on the album. I doubt the publisher sent this to Amazon with only one Ultra HD track on the album. Compare it to the same track from the same album on Qobuz. They are clearly different masterings, if not different performances.

How can anyone have any confidence that they are actually hearing what they want to listen to? I listen to a lot of classical music. How can I be sure that I am listening to the conductor or the soloist that I have selected? How can I be sure that Amazon didn’t just decide that the third movement of any given symphony should be replaced with a different recording?
For me, this constitutes a fatal flaw.

I wrote to Amazon about this problem last year and they suggested that I check my Internet bandwidth. Not very helpful.



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This a deal breaker. In my experience, Amazon delivers sub-par experiences in both music and other streaming services (not talking about sound/video quality specifically). Jeff Bezos famously once said that Amazon Video only exists to sell more tennis shoes. He was speaking to the idea that their add-on services only exist to help lock people into the Prime ecosystem. Who knows, but to me it appears this approach doesn't prioritize the user experience in ways other companies might.

 

[ahofer]

I have both Qobuz and Tidal and I use Roon. To me, Qobuz is superior to Tidal. I will look first on Qobuz for a track or album before looking to Tidal. On my Roon setup I have bias towards selecting Qobuz as well. Additionally, I have no issues at all with the Roon / Qobuz connection.

I do the same, but I've had one problem with Roon - sometimes the Qobuz tracks aren't accessible. I think it's a licensing thing or album replacement. Very annoying. Qobuz has been telling me "it's a known issue" for years and doing nothing about it.

Tracks / Albums Unavailable in Qobuz

When you say “removed” do you mean tracks become unavailable?

community.roonlabs.com

 

[MRC01]

I do the same, but I've had one problem with Roon - sometimes the Qobuz tracks aren't accessible. I think it's a licensing thing or album replacement. ...

This happens when the owner of the music rights prevents Qobuz from streaming certain tracks. The owners sometimes release only a few tracks as a teaser and hold back others in the hopes that people will buy the album. This can also happen with other streaming services. It's out of their hands - music streaming services are distributors who have to negotiate with rights owners on terms.
I find it equally annoying, but it's not unique to Qobuz. And fortunately, it's rare (at least in the music I listen to).

 

[ahofer]

This happens when the owner of the music rights prevents Qobuz from streaming certain tracks. The owners sometimes release only a few tracks as a teaser and hold back others in the hopes that people will buy the album. This can also happen with other streaming services. It's out of their hands - music streaming services are distributors who have to negotiate with rights owners on terms.
I find it equally annoying, but it's not unique to Qobuz.

It's unique to Qobuz in my experience (which isn't definitive). Also tracks will be available, then unavailable. Very annoying

 

[777]

Troll

Are you serious ? I simply like Tidal more. For me it has more natural sound and MQA has even more closer. Qobuz has an artificial sound with exaggerated highs. That's what I hear.

 

[MRC01]

Are you serious ? I simply like Tidal more. For me it has more natural sound and MQA has even more closer. Qobuz has an artificial sound with exaggerated highs. That's what I hear.

OK, but now you know that Tidal is reprocessing the music and Qobuz isn't. So Tidal is less faithful to the source, but they've modified it in a way that you prefer.
PS: I sympathize with this view - most modern music is recorded / processed to sound overly bright, crunchy and artificial. Taming the treble a bit often does make it sound better. Yet I prefer to listen to have a faithful bit perfect version of the source and if it needs any changes, apply them myself.

 

[ahofer]

Are you serious ? I simply like Tidal more. For me it has more natural sound and MQA has even more closer. Qobuz has an artificial sound with exaggerated highs. That's what I hear.

But it likely has nothing to do with the streaming service, so it is likely misleading. If there is an audible difference, Tidal is audibly distorted.

 

[Sal1950]

When listening to an album that is only available in CD-quality (oddly called HD) they will replace individual tracks with high definition versions if available on other albums. On my first go-around two years ago, I found five or six instances where they had replaced a track with an incorrect version of the song.

If I understand you right, I think you will find the same situation with most streamers.
If your sign up for their highest quality sound, they will mix & match songs within an album to
give you the "best quality" available in that album.
I use Apple and when songs are available in Atmos they will punch them in with other non-Atmos songs
on the same album.
I'm not supporting the practice, just stating that it's just the way it is.

 

[MRC01]

If I understand you right, I think you will find the same situation with most streamers.
If your sign up for their highest quality sound, they will mix & match songs within an album to
give you the "best quality" available in that album.
I use Apple and when songs are available in Atmos they will punch them in with other non-Atmos songs
on the same album.
I'm not supporting the practice, just stating that it's just the way it is.

I haven't seen Qobuz doing this (maybe they do but I just haven't seen it). When Qobuz has multiple versions of an album, say the CD version decades old and a new high-def remastered one, each appears as a separate album and you decide which to listen to.

 

[Turambar]

Take for instance in Qobuz the album by Buffalo Springfield, "Last Time Around". It's offered in CD resolution, but the second song, 'It's so Hard to Wait" it's in 24 bits / 88.2 kHz...

 

[MRC01]

Take for instance in Qobuz the album by Buffalo Springfield, "Last Time Around". It's offered in CD resolution, but the second song, 'It's so Hard to Wait" it's in 24 bits / 88.2 kHz...

I just checked and you're right! First time I've seen that.

 

[steabert]

I listen to a lot of classical music. How can I be sure that I am listening to the conductor or the soloist that I have selected? .

For classical music you can use a service like https://www.idagio.com/

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

Take for instance in Qobuz the album by Buffalo Springfield, "Last Time Around". It's offered in CD resolution, but the second song, 'It's so Hard to Wait" it's in 24 bits / 88.2 kHz...

Is it offered in CD resolution? when I look at the album info it says this:

 

[Ken Tajalli]

This is my problem too. No one service to rule them all. If they all opened up APIs to 3rd party software I would probably go for amazon as the highest value proposition but not the best experience.

I use Amazon too.
I had Qubuz, but left them.
Amazon has the largest inventory, there has not been any album that I couldn't find on Amazon with at least CD quality. The inventory even includes a lot of Persian classical music (important to me), that I could not find elsewhere. Sound quality is very good, has its own equaliser.
Best thing about the Windows app or browser play, is the fact that output can be routed through Jriver media player in exclusive mode.
This means I can use Jriver DSP engine.

Qubuz app had no EQ, and it would not work with Jriver in exclusive mode.
So my answer to the title question is:
Neither! Amazon.

 

[MRC01]

I used to use Idagio (and Primephonic). Idagio is a good service, but reasons I switched to Qobuz:

1. Idagio is lossless, but it resamples everything to 44-16.
2. Qobuz had everything I could find on Idagio (though it can be harder to find on Qobuz), and more since Idagio is classical only.

Regarding (1), I don't care much whether music is high-def, but I do care if they're resampled or otherwise processed it. So it's not that I think 96-24 (for example) is "better" than 44-16, but while the process of resampling/converting it should be transparent, all methods aren't created equal and some are not transparent. Since bandwidth and space isn't a concern, it's simpler and cleaner to stream whatever the studio provides without changing it.

One thing I did like better about Idagio is their metadata. It's customized for classical music, FAR superior giving better searchability and discoverability.

 

[Mr. Widget]

I just checked and you're right! First time I've seen that.

Yep... odd. I checked and Tidal is straight 44.1 16 bit.

Roon does provide a heads up. "Mixed Formats"

 

[MRC01]

I use Amazon too.
I had Qubuz, but left them.
...
Qubuz app had no EQ, and it would not work with Jriver in exclusive mode.
So my answer to the title question is:
Neither! Amazon.

I tried Amazon too. The reason I stuck with Qobuz is I listen on a Linux desktop, and Qobuz is the only service that streams lossless native bit rates to any browser. All the other services only give you bit-perfect with their own proprietary players - if you connect with a browser they resample or compress it.

Also, Qobuz opens their API so people can write their own apps. USB Audio Player Pro plays Qobuz bit-perfect, so if you have an Android device it can become a bit-perfect source to feed into your DAC.

 

[steabert]

I used to use Idagio (and Primephonic). Idagio is a good service, but reasons I switched to Qobuz:

1. Idagio is lossless, but it resamples everything to 44-16.
2. Qobuz had everything I could find on Idagio (though it can be harder to find on Qobuz), and more since Idagio is classical only.

Regarding (1), I don't care much whether music is high-def, but I do care if they're resampled or otherwise processed it. So it's not that I think 96-24 (for example) is "better" than 44-16, but while the process of resampling/converting it should be transparent, all methods aren't created equal and some are not transparent. Since bandwidth and space isn't a concern, it's simpler and cleaner to stream whatever the studio provides without changing it.

One thing I did like better about Idagio is their metadata. It's customized for classical music, FAR superior giving better searchability and discoverability.

Interestingly, I'm convinced most high quality lossy is transparant to me, I always choose that since I don't like wasting energy on bandwidth and processing power however small. So I don't even use lossless on Idagio.

But as you mention, it's all about the search functionality! I do have Spotify to have access to a larger collection of music.

Many different opinions and listeners here

 

[ahofer]

1. s everything to 44-16.
2. Qobuz had everything I could find on Idagio (though it can be harder to find on Qobuz)

I have Idagio too. Don't mind the 44 sampling rate. I'm a classical buff and it's *much* easier to find what I want on Idagio. Also their suggestions/'radio' selections are just waaaaaaay better than anyone else. Wish it was available within Roon (except then it would be Roon radio...).

 

[Sal1950]

I tried them all for a bit but ended up with Apple.
I hate the user interface, but they offer by far the largest catalog of 5.1, Atmos, surround titles out there.