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McIntosh Transformer causing noise in speakers while disconnected.

Blumlein 88

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Just curious ... What will the exchange procedure look like? Is McIntosh going to send someone to your home, picking your MC255 up and bringing a new one? I mean, that model is some 40 kilograms ...
Real men audiophiles laugh at 40 kg. Are you serious or what? I mean worst case unless you are old and feeble you and a buddy grab it and move it. If you are old and feeble and can afford a McIntosh hire a couple local high school students or something to move it for you. Sorry in a curmudgeonly mood tonight.
 

Golf

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Are you serious or what?

Well, I am dead serious.

Obviously, the whole situation is not ClassG33’s fault. After spending hours and hours with nailing a faulty unit, what more he should do now is manning his couch and watching McIntosh taking care of all the rest of that affair. While McIntosh themselves should think about how to even more compensate ClassG33 for the annoying experience he went through with one of their models.
 

Sokel

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Just curious ... What will the exchange procedure look like? Is McIntosh going to send someone to your home, picking your MC255 up and bringing a new one? I mean, that model is some 40 kilograms ...
I don't know about the US habits but in Europe the procedure is just that in this price tag.
The rep sends people to pick it and the same with return,set-up and check.

Same stands for trying speakers,etc,for established clients of course.It's a standard service.

(that's for same city reps of course but I know of people enjoyed the same service with some premium even at 200 kilometers far )
 

Blumlein 88

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Before making the return, I would suggest a repeatable measurement of the leakage which could be compared with the new replacement unit. Maybe a smartphone app that detects flux. Measure it at a few distances from the current amp, and record results. When the new unit arrives, put it in the same position and measure magnetic flux to see if it is reduced or not.

Possible method #2. Take a disconnected speaker which produces noise. Put it at three defined distances. Measure voltage across the speaker terminals with a good multimeter with at least a 10 megaohm input impedance. Plenty have this or more. Record the voltage at the three distances. When the new unit comes in repeat the measurements to see if the situation has improved (or not).
 
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ClassG33

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I am capable of packaging and lifting this back into my car to the dealer :) but I appreciate the concern for great service.

I have buddies at the dealer who may provide a free delivery, or even the whole exchange.

Service from McIntosh and the Dealer has been 10/10, as one should expect from such a brand.
 
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ClassG33

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Before making the return, I would suggest a repeatable measurement of the leakage which could be compared with the new replacement unit. Maybe a smartphone app that detects flux. Measure it at a few distances from the current amp, and record results. When the new unit arrives, put it in the same position and measure magnetic flux to see if it is reduced or not.

Possible method #2. Take a disconnected speaker which produces noise. Put it at three defined distances. Measure voltage across the speaker terminals with a good multimeter with at least a 10 megaohm input impedance. Plenty have this or more. Record the voltage at the three distances. When the new unit comes in repeat the measurements to see if the situation has improved (or not).
Can you recommend a specific multimeter?
 

Blumlein 88

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Can you recommend a specific multimeter?
For one that isn't expensive I like the Klein multimeters. They are built well, safe to use, and tend to be pretty reliable. They aren't equivalent to a Fluke or some others, but they'll have 10 mohm input impedance and should have .1 millivolt resolution for one costing around $35 or a bit more if you get a higher end model. You can get them at most Lowes or Home Depot stores. Usually for the same price as ordering online. The model MM325 or better should work. These aren't as accurate at lower voltages on the scale vs some better brands in my experience. As long as they are consistent it would work for your needs. Often they offer the MM325 with an electrical socket tester and a non-contact voltage checker for an additional $5. The socket tester might come in handy or not if you have grounding issues with your gear.

Some really cheap brands like Etekcity are fine too, but seem to have reliability issues with some of them. I'm not sure I'd trust them on higher voltage (for safety reasons), but for your purposes the voltages are not an issue.
 

restorer-john

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Before making the return, I would suggest a repeatable measurement of the leakage which could be compared with the new replacement unit. Maybe a smartphone app that detects flux. Measure it at a few distances from the current amp, and record results. When the new unit arrives, put it in the same position and measure magnetic flux to see if it is reduced or not.

Possible method #2. Take a disconnected speaker which produces noise. Put it at three defined distances. Measure voltage across the speaker terminals with a good multimeter with at least a 10 megaohm input impedance. Plenty have this or more. Record the voltage at the three distances. When the new unit comes in repeat the measurements to see if the situation has improved (or not).

These little devices are very useful for basic magnitude comparisons:

IMG_2979.jpg


IMG_2980.jpg


product page from a reseller (no-afil)
 
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ClassG33

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For one that isn't expensive I like the Klein multimeters. They are built well, safe to use, and tend to be pretty reliable. They aren't equivalent to a Fluke or some others, but they'll have 10 mohm input impedance and should have .1 millivolt resolution for one costing around $35 or a bit more if you get a higher end model. You can get them at most Lowes or Home Depot stores. Usually for the same price as ordering online. The model MM325 or better should work. These aren't as accurate at lower voltages on the scale vs some better brands in my experience. As long as they are consistent it would work for your needs. Often they offer the MM325 with an electrical socket tester and a non-contact voltage checker for an additional $5. The socket tester might come in handy or not if you have grounding issues with your gear.

Some really cheap brands like Etekcity are fine too, but seem to have reliability issues with some of them. I'm not sure I'd trust them on higher voltage (for safety reasons), but for your purposes the voltages are not an issue.
Complete newb here.. so do you just set it down and record the reading? And when you say measure across the terminals, can you put it in newb terms?
I play guitar and know ppl test their tube amps with a multimeter but I have never Learned how, so would the devices you recommend work for that as well?
 
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ClassG33

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Update**
A couple of new observations: I am noticing a couple of minor cosmetic things that could mean absolutely nothing, or could be indicitive of improper handling or missed in the QA.

The power knob is warped, or crooked, and not level with the face of the amp. I notice that the feet are not 100% level either; the back left foot was actually not making any contact with my cabinet, and is still imbalanced on the new Salamander Archetype stand I am now using. It's making contact now, but it's still imbalanced. All feet have a noticeable gap on the inside of each foot, supported by the outside portion of the feet.

Lastly and most of all, the noise to the speakers when wired and fully connected (not talking about the disconnected noise) has increased noticeably over the last couple days. It was originally very quiet, but now even the Right Speaker on the other side of the room has a bad noise when connected, and the amp is now much farther away from it (far enough where the non- wired noise is barely noticeable, like i have to really strain to hear it but it's still there 10ft away), with the entire cabinet between amp and Right Speaker. It is the same distorted tone as the startup surge, the tone I hear within the Transformer, and the noise that it sends to disconnected speakers. It can now be heard through audio playback.

Is it wise to put this away until the exchange at risk of damaging my speakers? I worry about the B&W tweeters.... but the amp still makes them sound so good with movies and such, so I am just sad to put it away if I don't have to......... :*(
 

peng

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Update**
A couple of new observations: I am noticing a couple of minor cosmetic things that could mean absolutely nothing, or could be indicitive of improper handling or missed in the QA.

The power knob is warped, or crooked, and not level with the face of the amp. I notice that the feet are not 100% level either; the back left foot was actually not making any contact with my cabinet, and is still imbalanced on the new Salamander Archetype stand I am now using. It's making contact now, but it's still imbalanced. All feet have a noticeable gap on the inside of each foot, supported by the outside portion of the feet.

Lastly and most of all, the noise to the speakers when wired and fully connected (not talking about the disconnected noise) has increased noticeably over the last couple days. It was originally very quiet, but now even the Right Speaker on the other side of the room has a bad noise when connected, and the amp is now much farther away from it (far enough where the non- wired noise is barely noticeable, like i have to really strain to hear it but it's still there 10ft away), with the entire cabinet between amp and Right Speaker. It is the same distorted tone as the startup surge, the tone I hear within the Transformer, and the noise that it sends to disconnected speakers. It can now be heard through audio playback.

Is it wise to put this away until the exchange at risk of damaging my speakers? I worry about the B&W tweeters.... but the amp still makes them sound so good with movies and such, so I am just sad to put it away if I don't have to......... :*(
For a McIntosh amp you bought brand new, this sort of cosmetic defects is not acceptable even if it sounds perfect and have (edit:) no noise issue. I suspect lots of people would therefore politely request an exchange regardless.
 
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ClassG33

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For a McIntosh amp you bought brand new, this sort of cosmetic defects is not acceptable even if it sounds perfect and have noise issue. I suspect lots of people would therefore politely request an exchange regardless.
Agreed. This thing is leaving soon as the new one is shipped, but do you think it's safe to run in the mean time?
 

Vacceo

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For a McIntosh amp you bought brand new, this sort of cosmetic defects is not acceptable even if it sounds perfect and have noise issue. I suspect lots of people would therefore politely request an exchange regardless.
Agreed. And if not an exchange, at least a full repair and factory inspection.
 

Blumlein 88

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That sounds more and more like a badly wound or damaged transformer winding to me. Just get a replacement.
 

Doodski

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For one that isn't expensive I like the Klein multimeters. They are built well, safe to use, and tend to be pretty reliable. They aren't equivalent to a Fluke or some others, but they'll have 10 mohm input impedance and should have .1 millivolt resolution for one costing around $35 or a bit more if you get a higher end model. You can get them at most Lowes or Home Depot stores. Usually for the same price as ordering online. The model MM325 or better should work. These aren't as accurate at lower voltages on the scale vs some better brands in my experience. As long as they are consistent it would work for your needs. Often they offer the MM325 with an electrical socket tester and a non-contact voltage checker for an additional $5. The socket tester might come in handy or not if you have grounding issues with your gear.

Some really cheap brands like Etekcity are fine too, but seem to have reliability issues with some of them. I'm not sure I'd trust them on higher voltage (for safety reasons), but for your purposes the voltages are not an issue.
I did some searching and what a person gets in the Klein MM325 for USD <$45 online pricing it is very good value although it has minimum 200 V AC scale @ 0.1 ±(1.0% + 3 digits) Volt accuracy. Not enough resolution and accuracy for what it needs to do.
Additonally the frequency range for metering AC V is 50 to 60 Hz. Very limiting in it's application.
So... One need a better meter....
Screenshot 2024-03-24 063000.png

Screenshot 2024-03-24 063132.png
 

Doodski

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We need to spec out a proper meter or go up higher in the Klein model number.
Need more time so do not order in a meter yet @ClassG33.
 

restorer-john

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I did some searching and what a person gets in the Klein MM325 for USD <$45 online pricing it is very good value although it has minimum 200 V AC scale @ 0.1 ±(1.0% + 3 digits) Volt accuracy. Not enough resolution and accuracy for what it needs to do.
Additonally the frequency range for metering AC V is 50 to 60 Hz. Very limiting in it's application.
So... One need a better meter....
View attachment 358887
View attachment 358888

Just buy a Fluke model specified out to 20kHz. So, an 87 series as a minimum.
 

Blumlein 88

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Complete newb here.. so do you just set it down and record the reading? And when you say measure across the terminals, can you put it in newb terms?
I play guitar and know ppl test their tube amps with a multimeter but I have never Learned how, so would the devices you recommend work for that as well?
The idea is your speaker disconnected is picking up magnetic fields causing it to make a noise, and the field is coming from the amp. If you put a resistor of low value across the speaker input terminals with no other connections it likely would drain away the energy and go silent. However, if you put a meter across it with a very high impedance like 10 mega-ohms I would expect that meter set to AC would register a few millivolts. So put the speaker somewhere at different distances maybe 1 ft, 3 ft and 6 ft. Measure the AC voltage by connecting each lead of the meter across each of the speaker terminals. Red to red and black to black if your terminals are color coded on the speaker. The reading will likely flicker around a bit, but record it at each distance. You would expect the voltage level to fall as you move further from the amp.

Now if your replacement amp still has some noise on such a speaker, but less you could do the same measure and see how much it has dropped. Maybe this is overkill. Effectively if you know the sound being picked by the speaker now, you hope and should expect the new amp will generate no noise in the speaker at all. Indication enough your problem is fixed. So maybe that is fine and don't complicate your life with the multimeter at all. You hearing whether the speaker is silent or not is your goal and you can determine that by listening.
 

Doodski

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Can we get some input as per metering a voltage @ the speaker terminal as per @Blumlein 88 suggestion. I assume veryyy low current flow so the meter would need to be veryyy sensitive and have a veryy high impedance. Can a handheld even meter that?
 

Blumlein 88

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Just buy a Fluke model specified out to 20kHz. So, an 87 series as a minimum.
I agree, but a Fluke 87 is about $500. For someone not owning one and apparently needing at most some basic use the $35 meter will do. We don't need 20 khz in this particular instance. I forget, but I've measured one of the Klein meters finding it 3 db down at 4khz or something like that. As you see in my last post maybe just listening to the disconnected speaker is dead simple, costs nothing and accomplishes what is needed.
 
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