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I'd not ask this on any other forum....cables....

Discussion in 'Analog Audio Forum (amplifiers, cables, etc.)' started by Murrayp, Jun 11, 2017.

  1. Frank Dernie

    Frank Dernie Member

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    Well I do much prefer + and - to flow and return or send and return myself fwiw. I know what you mean about ground, but most hifi is single ended so one side of the signal is normally "grounded". I have kit where there are switches to connect signal "ground" to chassis "ground" or to separate them. But I am old and used to the old terminology.
     
  2. Speedskater

    Speedskater Active Member

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    Yes but 'ground' has so many meaning (and so many more incorrect meaning) it's had to tell just what a person is writing about.

    Some frequent meanings:
    a] Common reference point
    b] Mother earth
    c] Safety Ground/Protective Earth
    d] Chassis
    e] Shield
    f] DC power supply common
    g] Circuit common

    While most of these have continuity from one to another, each has it's own function.
     
  3. DonH56

    DonH56 Addicted to Fun and Learning Industry Expert

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    In the RF world there is the signal path and the return path. Lo be unto those that screw either of them up. Power uses line, neutral, and (safety) ground. Differential, sometimes called balanced, uses signal plus, signal minus, in-phase/out-of-phase, or whatever plus common-mode (which may or may not be ground potential) and shield (which usually is). Some may use hot and cold. Most use signal and ground. At least IME. In all cases it is critical to remember that current is a loop and signal and return/neutral/negative/ground are both important. Most of the time people know what "ground" is so that's what I tend to use.
     
  4. Speedskater

    Speedskater Active Member

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    I see so many audiophiles on so many forums using different meanings of the word 'ground' almost interchangeably.
     
  5. DonH56

    DonH56 Addicted to Fun and Learning Industry Expert

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    Oh, agree completely. Don't depend upon audiophiles for technically accurate definitions... ;) Look at the whole "balanced" vs. "differential" debate. Could give them an IEEE Standard to review but...

    Mother Earth = Gaia, yes? "Please Gaia, bless my interconnects, that they may provide sounds pleasing to me and to thee, yeah verily." :)
     
  6. Speedskater

    Speedskater Active Member

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    I was thinking of the planet, while Gaia (Gaea) a Greek goddess is what the magic grounding boxes connect to.
     
  7. RayDunzl

    RayDunzl Major Contributor Central Scrutinizer

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    Is there a difference?

    (time passes)

    Ok, I looked. Yes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  8. Blumlein 88

    Blumlein 88 Major Contributor

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    Just go with balanced differential.

    There is the controversy with Gaia or Gaea however. Most recently it is the former rather than the latter. I blame that British climate scientist that told NASA when he worked for them they had no need to go to Mars looking for life. He could tell from here there was none. So far there actually is no solid evidence he was wrong. He popularized the Gaia spelling.
     
  9. Speedskater

    Speedskater Active Member

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    Balanced is just a carefully designed sub-set of differential.
     
  10. DonH56

    DonH56 Addicted to Fun and Learning Industry Expert

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    Yah, I saw that, but it's all Greek to me... :)
     
  11. DonH56

    DonH56 Addicted to Fun and Learning Industry Expert

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    Alas, no, and that is part of the problem. Some equipment manufacturers use the term balanced to describe a quasi-differential (if that) implementation that is single-ended but with an additional resistor (usually) from ground to signal return/minus/negative/whatever so looking into the driver the impedances are roughly the same ("balanced") but the circuit is not actually differential. This can be of some benefit but generally does not have the CMRR of a true differential design, nor even of a wellp-matched quasi-differential design (which often takes a single-ended driver and adds an active inverter stage to create the (-) output).

    Actually, I realized that your interpretation is OK, if emphasis is placed upon "carefully designed"...
     

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