Embracing Simplicity in Audio: Anyone Else Skipping Room Correction, Measurement Microphones, and the Like?

[Mean & Green]

So, feelings and emotions are at play!

From both sides here talking about this subject, you could say so. That’s not the kind of feelings that were being referred to earlier.

No one here feels that they have superiority other than those who use graphs to set up their rooms.

 

[ahofer]

No one here feels that they have superiority other than those who use graphs to set up their rooms.

Ah yes, you must be on the side of the angels.

 

[Mean & Green]

Ah yes, you must be on the side of the angels.

No I just simply gave my initial response to the OP and since then have I been ‘educated‘ on my wrong doing.

 

[DLS79]

No one here feels that they have superiority other than those who use graphs to set up their rooms.

Considering some responses to this thread have passive aggressive and antagonistic undertones, I cannot agree with your assessment!

 

[Mean & Green]

Considering some responses to this thread have passive aggressive and antagonistic undertones, I cannot agree with your assessment!

The passive aggressiveness all started when those who didn’t come here to answer the OPs question got involved and tried to show us the righteous path.

 

[Mart68]

Without practical constraints you could apply the 38% rule to the speakers and listening position to minimise (not solve) the influence of room modes, but that would turn the whole setup into a near field setup and the placement of speakers and couch would make the room unsuitable to live in. An interesting thought experiment but not an option for most people. For people that are after optimum quality, this is not the simple fix.

Sorry I am a bit late coming back to this but

In the example you quoted - a small two way with 6.5'' mid bass then no, that will not be necessary at all. :LF power and extension with such a speaker will not be sufficient to excite room modes unless you jammed them in the corners and played them very loud - which you wouldn't as you would then have issues with audible distortion.

I've used such speakers in an all concrete room 7'x10' with no issues whatsoever. (later went up to 4 way towers with twin 8'' drivers, still no problem as in such a small room you can't reach the volume level needed to excite the room nodes).

Owning lots of different speakers and living in lots of different rooms, over many years, you learn what will work and what won't by trial and error. This is how we did it for decades before DRC.

 

[MAB]

Excellent post.

So much of the discussion in this thread has focussed on "DSP" as descriptive of the entire subject. Your post illustrates the role of measurement so that you learn about your room and the speakers/subs you have.

First you learned and then you considered methods to improve performance of your system in the room.

Agree with you, I am trying to leave DSP separate since it seems to be confused with making a measurement of a room. I hope showing a subwoofer and a fancy DSP speaker have the same massive response peculiarities depending on position and room. It does seem the two different things are confused here. Appreciate you pointing that out.

 

[DLS79]

The passive aggressiveness all started when those who didn’t come here to answer the OPs question got involved and tried to show us the righteous path.

I don't know about that.

I see a lot of "you can do this fairly simply if you want", and then some passive aggressive responses started showing up.

It doesn't really matter what the OPs initial intention was, this is a public forum. Thus every thread is going to have a broad range of views represented.

 

[Purité Audio]

Sorry I am a bit late coming back to this but

In the example you quoted - a small two way with 6.5'' mid bass then no, that will not be necessary at all. :LF power and extension with such a speaker will not be sufficient to excite room modes unless you jammed them in the corners and played them very loud - which you wouldn't as you would then have issues with audible distortion.

I've used such speakers in an all concrete room 7'x10' with no issues whatsoever. (later went up to 4 way towers with twin 8'' drivers, still no problem as in such a small room you can't reach the volume level needed to excite the room nodes).

Owning lots of different speakers and living in lots of different rooms, over many years, you learn what will work and what won't by trial and error. This is how we did it for decades before DRC.
[/QUOTE]
Yes that is exactly right, if you bought a pair of loudspeakers that had enough bass extension to excite the room the only course of action was to shuffle them backwards and forwards hoping to discover the quarter wave cancellation, if that failed they were sold and a smaller pair acquired .
But now you don’t have to.
Keith

 

[Mean & Green]

I don't know about that.

I see a lot of "you can do this fairly simply if you want", and then some passive aggressive responses started showing up.

It doesn't really matter what the OPs initial intention was, this is a public forum. Thus every thread is going to have a broad range of views represented.

Within this thread I have been ridiculed for the following…

A. Being subjectively happy with my set up.
B. Having no desire to change my audio components.
C. Not so far having spent money on measuring and correction hardware/software.

 

[DonR]

Complex

Simple

Best

 

[MAB]

Just to stray a little further off topic (and perhaps diffuse some of the tensions in this thread) – isn’t the UMIK supposed be pointed straight up for in-room measurements?

Thank goodness orientation isn't important for these low frequency. Here are both orientations, with the specific calibration files, same mic position to within ~1 cm. It would be better to do the study with moving mic or multiple mic locations. But this is pretty good illustration.

For the broader audience, wave a mic around a room! It's easier than moving audio gear.
As always, any attempt to diffuse tension is appreciated!!!

 

[Rednaxela]

Within this thread I have been ridiculed for the following…

A. Being subjectively happy with my set up.
B. Having no desire to change my audio components.
C. Not so far having spent money on measuring and correction hardware/software.

Quotes or it didn’t happen.

 

[Mean & Green]

Quotes or it didn’t happen.

Read the thread. I’ve directly replied to such quotes.

 

[olieb]

In the example you quoted - a small two way with 6.5'' mid bass then no, that will not be necessary at all. :LF power and extension with such a speaker will not be sufficient to excite room modes unless you jammed them in the corners and played them very loud - which you wouldn't as you would then have issues with audible distortion.

I do not know what you exactly mean by "room modes".
As far as I know, room modes are a linear phenomenon and as such describe (mainly) the low-frequency behavior of typical listening rooms regardless of volume. They dominate the room behavior up to around Schroeder frequency (100-200Hz) and every single hifi speaker is able to excite these modes, maybe just not the lowest ones. But you can modify the way the speakers couple to those modes by shuffling them around. (38% rule and such).
All this can be experienced by simple measurements as @MAB is showing.

 

[DLS79]

Within this thread I have been ridiculed for the following…

A. Being subjectively happy with my set up.
B. Having no desire to change my audio components.
C. Not so far having spent money on measuring and correction hardware/software.

Imo, If you are going to start lobbing grenades from the nosebelled section you should expect some clap back.

With respect, that just comes across as arrogance.

On the internet everyone is an expert.

not the post you responded to was refereeing to Floyd Toole

There seem to be a lot of enforcers on this forum.

He didn’t ask to be put on the righteous path and manspalined to. It‘s listening to music for crying out loud - no need to be high and mighty over it.

 

[Geert]

In the example you quoted - a small two way with 6.5'' mid bass then no, that will not be necessary at all. :LF power and extension with such a speaker will not be sufficient to excite room modes unless you jammed them in the corners and played them very loud

How can you say that when I posted a measurement as proof:

Exiting room modes has nothing to do with volume. A room mode is a resonance and what's typical for a resonance, not only in audio, is that you only need to feed it a minimum of energy.

I've used such speakers in an all concrete room 7'x10' with no issues whatsoever. (later went up to 4 way towers with twin 8'' drivers, still no problem as in such a small room you can't reach the volume level needed to excite the room nodes).

Room acoustics are lineair, volume doesn't matter. In a room the size you mentioned you will have a hughe dip because of room modes in the lows. That dip is there whatever the volume, very easy to verify. I could show measurements again but it looks like this is the wrong thread for that.

 

[Mean & Green]

Imo, If you are going to start lobbing grenades from the nosebelled section you should expect some clap back.




not the post you responded to was refereeing to Floyd Toole

It’s been working both ways. Don’t try to claim that it hasn’t.

 

[DLS79]

It’s been working works both ways. Don’t try to claim that it hasn’t.

where did I say it hasn't?

I'm just merely pointing out that imo it didn't all start from one side as you are implying here.

The passive aggressiveness all started when those who didn’t come here to answer the OPs question got involved and tried to show us the righteous path.

Imo you throwing in "tried to show us the righteous path" is an example of an antagonistic response that's does not improve the matter!

 

[MAB]

Sorry I am a bit late coming back to this but

In the example you quoted - a small two way with 6.5'' mid bass then no, that will not be necessary at all. :LF power and extension with such a speaker will not be sufficient to excite room modes unless you jammed them in the corners and played them very loud - which you wouldn't as you would then have issues with audible distortion.

I've used such speakers in an all concrete room 7'x10' with no issues whatsoever. (later went up to 4 way towers with twin 8'' drivers, still no problem as in such a small room you can't reach the volume level needed to excite the room nodes).

Owning lots of different speakers and living in lots of different rooms, over many years, you learn what will work and what won't by trial and error. This is how we did it for decades before DRC.

No. Here is a Rauna Freja vs. a Seas 10" sub plus passive radiator. Roughly level matched, same position:

Both are dominated by the room.

The argument that speakers with weak response don't need consideration of room, or are somehow immune to the room is not correct. In fact, if all I had was a speaker with weak bass like this Rauna, the location I chose here is not ideal. These Rauna need careful placement just like any other speaker.