Dutch&Dutch …

[droid2000]

Well, I did reveal my association in the last post. Not trying to be cagy. Prior to that, I was just trying to offer an informative counterpoint, like the vents aren't side ports, etc.

I'm an owner of the 8c for about 5 years, as well as several other high end systems (at the same time). I purchased them to support my Bacch-SP rig.

About 4 years ago, I learned to work on the speakers and in an unofficial capacity, supported their distributor on the West Coast of the US.

Earlier this year, I stepped into a more official role as the North American distributorship changed.

My goal from any of my posts is not to sell or market the product as much as it is to provide information.

That's full transparency.

Where in PR can i hear these?

 

[Se7enAtx]

Where in PR can i hear these?

Where in PR can i hear these?

Let me get back to you tomorrow on that.

We could always look at an in-home demo situation.

 

[droid2000]

Let me get back to you tomorrow on that.

We could always look at an in-home demo situation.

I have a nice system. I need two upgrades. Speakers and a miniDSP for more control. My RME ain't cutting it. Let me know where to find your speakers.

 

[Purité Audio]

Let me get back to you tomorrow on that.

We could always look at an in-home demo situation.

Se great to have you here, just ping Amir or one of the mods and they will modify your status, transparency is everything.
Best,
Keith

 

[phoenixdogfan]

See those vent things on the side? Those look like gills. It gulps water through it's woofer and exhales it through it's gills while extracting oxygen to survive. If you touch the speaker it's slimy, like fish skin, and then it dies because you disturbed the mucus it needs for protection. As if that's not enough to turn you away from these abominations, the matte black plastic-looking front flanked by light fake wood color is a terrible color/texture combination. Like this celebrities outfit at the recent Met Gala:

View attachment 283139

Nothing like going over the top, is there? Just remember one of the ways of doing that is called "Jumping the Shark!"

 

[Ra1zel]

See those vent things on the side? Those look like gills. It gulps water through it's woofer and exhales it through it's gills while extracting oxygen to survive. If you touch the speaker it's slimy, like fish skin, and then it dies because you disturbed the mucus it needs for protection.

You need to change your dealer my man

 

[Ra1zel]

No one listens to music at 105dB

If you have music with 20dB crest factor that's 85dB avarge, still loud but symphonic orchestra can reach 110dB+ peaks

 

[Purité Audio]

Epic Home Studio, Warren David and his Dutch&Dutch 8Cs,

Keith

 

[tifune]

Epic Home Studio, Warren David and his Dutch&Dutch 8Cs,

Keith

Nice find! This really helpful to me because I'm trying to do exact same thing - D&D L/C/R with Neumann surrounds. The wiring, of course, has me pulling my hair out.

The aesthetic mismatch, as well, is causing my eyes to tell my ears something isn't quite right. Seeing this makes me think there's hope after all.

I wonder how common it is to use a phantom center for mixing? The D&D dispersion is so clean, Ive started listening with it off and I haven't had any trouble discerning dialogue in movies/TV from anywhere in my room. It kind of an eyesore so Im looking for almost any excuse to sell it

But perhaps most importantly, the mention of "D&D's smaller speakers." I saw some hints in another thread, hopefully not far off now...

 

[Se7enAtx]

Epic Home Studio, Warren David and his Dutch&Dutch 8Cs,

Keith

Warren David on Instagram: "Not only to I rely on the @dutch_and_dutch 8c every day to tell me the truth, I also deal with them. So, just get ‘em. Link to buy in bio. #mixing #mixengineer #musicproduction #musicproducer #recrodingstudio #dutchandd

34 likes, 7 comments - thewarrendavid on May 10, 2023: "Not only to I rely on the @dutch_and_dutch 8c every day to tell me the truth, I also deal with them. So, just get ‘em. Link to buy in..."

www.instagram.com

 

[Purité Audio]

Erin’s favourite loudspeaker,

https://www.youtube.com/c/ErinsAudioCorner/community

Keith

 

[Purité Audio]

Dutch&Dutch 8Cs hooked up to Eversolo DMP A-6 streamer.
The 8Cs are my personal reference , they are just in my opinion the most complete loudspeaker you can buy.
Both available for evaluation at Purité Audio London.



Keith

 

[FrantzM]

How would these work in a LRC configuration? For HT with other speakers for surround and Atmos Ceiling and of course, subwoofers?

Peace.

 

[Purité Audio]

You can use them as conventional actives, set the XLR inputs to ‘analogue’ m/c dac .
Keith

 

[tifune]

How would these work in a LRC configuration? For HT with other speakers for surround and Atmos Ceiling and of course, subwoofers?

Peace.

I tried this and gave up. setting aside the obvious extra cabling issues, which can be more of an eyesore than you may expect, The latest app only works with pairs so you won't be able to configure 1 speaker. You can roll back to older firmware, and you don't lose any features so not a huge loss

Enabling phase linearity adds about 32ms latency. Combined with the distance to MLP, my AVR didn't cope well with the video delay. Audyssey only allows a 20ms delta in time alignment. So, wth my 8C's at 16ft the time of flight correction was nearly 50ms and the rest of the speakers had to be set at 30ms ToF correction even if they were only 6ft away with almost no discernable latency (neumann 120). Maybe Dirac is better in this regard?

No sleep mode and power on takes about 90 seconds. Doesn't bother me but some may not like it

Finally, and this is a "me problem", having mismatched surrounds/heights distracts me. Even with something as neutral as Neumann, I felt like something sounds off when listening to upmixed content.

my main use case is Auro3D, which IMO emphasizes speaker tonality mismatches because it's playing a modified L/R channel simultaneously with the front LCR (as opposed to discrete content which is usually not a direct copy of front L/R content). Or, maybe it's just sighted bias

All that said, it sounded amazing and is my favorite stereo speaker hands down. Cost no object I would buy an all 8C setup, but cost is definitely an object. FWIW I've tried just about well regarded speaker on this site, and my subjective opinion is basically in line with Erin's Top 5 list (except Kef Reference Meta, never tried because I'd rather get 8351B for that $)

hopefully someday a smaller version and/or horizontal center will be introduced. With my limited time I'm in the process of switching to Genelec Ones for multichannel, selling a pair of 8Cs (i bought 2 pairs) and moving the other pair to my home office so I can be ready when uBacch is finally released.

 

[MKR]

I tried this and gave up. setting aside the obvious extra cabling issues, which can be more of an eyesore than you may expect, The latest app only works with pairs so you won't be able to configure 1 speaker. You can roll back to older firmware, and you don't lose any features so not a huge loss

Enabling phase linearity adds about 32ms latency. Combined with the distance to MLP, my AVR didn't cope well with the video delay. Audyssey only allows a 20ms delta in time alignment. So, wth my 8C's at 16ft the time of flight correction was nearly 50ms and the rest of the speakers had to be set at 30ms ToF correction even if they were only 6ft away with almost no discernable latency (neumann 120). Maybe Dirac is better in this regard?

No sleep mode and power on takes about 90 seconds. Doesn't bother me but some may not like it

Finally, and this is a "me problem", having mismatched surrounds/heights distracts me. Even with something as neutral as Neumann, I felt like something sounds off when listening to upmixed content.

my main use case is Auro3D, which IMO emphasizes speaker tonality mismatches because it's playing a modified L/R channel simultaneously with the front LCR (as opposed to discrete content which is usually not a direct copy of front L/R content). Or, maybe it's just sighted bias

All that said, it sounded amazing and is my favorite stereo speaker hands down. Cost no object I would buy an all 8C setup, but cost is definitely an object. FWIW I've tried just about well regarded speaker on this site, and my subjective opinion is basically in line with Erin's Top 5 list (except Kef Reference Meta, never tried because I'd rather get 8351B for that $)

hopefully someday a smaller version and/or horizontal center will be introduced. With my limited time I'm in the process of switching to Genelec Ones for multichannel, selling a pair of 8Cs (i bought 2 pairs) and moving the other pair to my home office so I can be ready when uBacch is finally released.

Interesting, thanks for sharing. Home theater application has been one of my primary concerns with actives from the beginning of my end game speaker quest. This is part of reason I ruled them out at beginning. Though as some may be aware that were following my now defunct thread, they have most certainly come back into play.

But, it seems the issue is not with actives per se, but rather the specific software used by some manufacturer? To say, problematic with D&D, but appears Genelec SW (GLM) better manages HT application? Do I have that correct?

Above to say, the upcoming larger D&D offering are on my radar to be sure, but I am very concerned about making them work in an HT application … maybe @Martijn Mensink has something in the works to allow better integration in HT application?

 

[tifune]

But, it seems the issue is not with actives per se, but rather the specific software used by some manufacturer? To say, problematic with D&D, but appears Genelec SW (GLM) better manages HT application? Do I have that correct?

I wouldn't phrase it quite that way, but I see what you're getting at. To get full performance of D&D, you have to be OK with the latency and legacy firmware. Genelec has some latency in linear phase mode, but not as high.

It's more that Genelec has multiple sizes so you can get a little more value. For example, I'll be using 8351 front L/R, 8361 center, 8341 front height (normally overkill but they're 20ft+ from MLP), 8331 for surrounds (6ft away). To do all that with D&D, I'm afraid to been calculate. I think they're $14k/pair MSRP but like all electronics, deals can be found. Not enough of a deal to make it worth it for me, personally, but maybe others

GLM is much better than audyssey, to me, but Genelec subwoofers are so lackluster for the price that I'd be looking elsewhere for bass management. Someone with a lot of time could probably save $ by integrating GLM and MSO, but Im not that person.

 

[Purité Audio]

8Cs in low latency is 3ms, ‘legacy firmware’?
Keith

 

[MKR]

I wouldn't phrase it quite that way, but I see what you're getting at. To get full performance of D&D, you have to be OK with the latency and legacy firmware. Genelec has some latency in linear phase mode, but not as high.

It's more that Genelec has multiple sizes so you can get a little more value. For example, I'll be using 8351 front L/R, 8361 center, 8341 front height (normally overkill but they're 20ft+ from MLP), 8331 for surrounds (6ft away). To do all that with D&D, I'm afraid to been calculate. I think they're $14k/pair MSRP but like all electronics, deals can be found. Not enough of a deal to make it worth it for me, personally, but maybe others

GLM is much better than audyssey, to me, but Genelec subwoofers are so lackluster for the price that I'd be looking elsewhere for bass management. Someone with a lot of time could probably save $ by integrating GLM and MSO, but Im not that person.

Got it, thanks for the clarification. I have heard rumor D&D may be working on a smaller model, so lower cost? but not fully sure about that. Something to consider anyway.

 

[Dialectic]

Lots of rumors floating around!