DIgital Audio vs Analog Test

[Dismayed]

Is anyone aware of a double blind test that compares a digitized feed from a turntable to the analog signal from the turntable? I believe that a digitized signal at the Red Book standard from a turntable would be indistinguishable from the turntable feed in a well-controlled study. It isn't a test that I can perform because I dropped vinyl decades ago.

 

[BDWoody]

Is anyone aware of a double blind test that compares a digitized feed from a turntable to the analog signal from the turntable? I believe that a digitized signal at the Red Book standard from a turntable would be indistinguishable from the turntable feed in a well-controlled study. It isn't a test that I can perform because I dropped vinyl decades ago.

Not aware of a specific, rigorous test, but I would bet a lot that it would be indistinguishable. I have quite a few 'rips' of records, and they sound like the record, but I haven't done any meaningful testing.

What might confound things is the physical embellishment (?) that can happen when the TT cartridge is influenced or reinforced by the actual sound waves being generated in the room. With a turntable acoustically separated from the room, that wouldn't be an issue.

My daily driver phono preamp is the Parks Audio Puffin, which digitally samples all signals, so my 'analog chain' ends before it gets very far. I've not noticed any negative effects.

 

[Dismayed]

Not aware of a specific, rigorous test, but I would bet a lot that it would be indistinguishable. I have quite a few 'rips' of records, and they sound like the record, but I haven't done any meaningful testing.

What might confound things is the physical embellishment (?) that can happen when the TT cartridge is influenced or reinforced by the actual sound waves being generated in the room. With a turntable acoustically separated from the room, that wouldn't be an issue.

My daily driver phono preamp is the Parks Audio Puffin, which digitally samples all signals, so my 'analog chain' ends before it gets very far. I've not noticed any negative effects.

I guess I'm getting a bit tired of hearing about magical analog sound!

 

[Doodski]

I guess I'm getting a bit tired of hearing about magical analog sound!

So true... Hehe!

 

[BDWoody]

I guess I'm getting a bit tired of hearing about magical analog sound!

People tell themselves stories all the time. I enjoy playing records because it's fun. I am under no misconceptions about the inherent limitations and compromises in SQ. Actually, one of the best things about the PA Puffin is the 'magic' declicker, which in real time removes much of the snap/crackle/pop that is also inherent to the medium to some degree.

I would have thought that after the whole MoFi 'thing,' that the all analog, all the time, start to finish or I get the vapors crowd might have settled down, but probably not.

 

[OldHvyMec]

I guess I'm getting a bit tired of hearing about magical analog sound!

Why? I'm pretty happy if it's not making any weird noises because of equipment. 99% of the noise from most analog sources is not
because of the source but the lack of adequate noise reduction from the actual playback gear. Reel to Reels start at the heads and
records start at the stylus and go DOWN from there not UP. Normally the source isn't the weak spot.

That's where most people take a stand on quality when it's the actual gear. I also use "The Parks Puffin" in some applications for recording.
Top notch affordable playback isn't just a few buck no different than a RtR. There is a point of diminishing that for me is about 1K for a cart
1-3k for a great analog phono preamp and making sure you have the correct cables and loading if you need to load the cart. My Parks
and Cocktail X40 (45?) are excellent tools for recording and dealing with considerable issues from some source material.

ABX? phooy. I let the Pros do that, I just make sure they are a trusted source. ASR is pretty tried and true for scrutiny and access to data that
backs it up. It's open ended for the most part. Nothing is written in stone from an objective point of view except proven facts.

Analog just like digital is only as good as the ROOM not the source. The source is XX%, the gear is XX%, the grid is XX%, the speakers are XX%
and the Room acoustics is the other 50%. Your money is better spent on the room, if your looking to improve the sound quality.
If you're looking for a magic BEAN they are all gone after the Jack in the beanstalk incident.

I'll admit this, I love to play records on my old Thoren 124s and Russco Broadcast. 10-20 records and you're set, with just a few rules to follow
for the rest of your life mainly about record hygiene and how to do it.

Here is a question. At the CD output RCA/XLRs is the signal analog or digital? When the signal from Spotify comes out of the back of most
preamps to go to power amps or analog active crossovers, is that a digital or an analog signal? I have Sony SACD that are about as good as
it gets and they are 30+ years old. I can adjust to my ears desire but none of it will fix an untreated room with even worse placement and
the use of existing furniture, curtains and seated position that will help with the SQ. In one ear and out the other with quite a few DSP junkies.

A C20/MC240/D300 Jensen Imperials (OLD GEAR) with a router from the cable company providing the Music Channel as a source is putting out a
digital or an analog signal?

Analog is a lot more magic than you might think, maybe?

Regards

 

[Audiofire]

Is anyone aware of a double blind test that compares a digitized feed from a turntable to the analog signal from the turntable?

Makes sense if there is a lack of such tests. It is the same principles as other digitized line level signals. ADCs with minuscule distortion in specifications and linear frequency response cover such tests you are asking about.

Audibility thresholds of amp and DAC measurements

Introduction A recurring theme on ASR is whether or not the various measured qualities of the devices are audible. In this post, I'll present some clear and visual thresholds for when those imperfections can be considered a potentially audible concern. I will not explain the basics of amp/DAC...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[LTig]

Is anyone aware of a double blind test that compares a digitized feed from a turntable to the analog signal from the turntable? I believe that a digitized signal at the Red Book standard from a turntable would be indistinguishable from the turntable feed in a well-controlled study. It isn't a test that I can perform because I dropped vinyl decades ago.

The test is not as easy as one may think.TTs are microphonic and with increasing SPL the sound changes. One would need to rip the vinyl at the same SPL one uses during the blindtest as playback level.

That said, those very few vinyl rips I've done in the past sounded like the original. Anything other would be a mistery.

 

[radix]

Is anyone aware of a double blind test that compares a digitized feed from a turntable to the analog signal from the turntable? I believe that a digitized signal at the Red Book standard from a turntable would be indistinguishable from the turntable feed in a well-controlled study. It isn't a test that I can perform because I dropped vinyl decades ago.

I've ripped a fair number of LPs on a tascam DA-3000. Sounds just like the LP, crackles and all. Any competent ADC should be able to completely capture the record. Yes, if you listen at volume, that can feedback into the turntable, but just don't do that while recording. There's nothing magic about an LP signal vs any other analog signal.

 

[DVDdoug]

Here is a post on HydrogenAudio about an informal-blind analog vinyl-to-digital-to-analog experiment. (Nobody heard a difference.)

 

[Dismayed]

Makes sense if there is a lack of such tests. It is the same principles as other digitized line level signals. ADCs with minuscule distortion in specifications and linear frequency response cover such tests you are asking about.

Audibility thresholds of amp and DAC measurements

Introduction A recurring theme on ASR is whether or not the various measured qualities of the devices are audible. In this post, I'll present some clear and visual thresholds for when those imperfections can be considered a potentially audible concern. I will not explain the basics of amp/DAC...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It makes sense that the digital signal would pretty much perfectly reproduce a turntable signal, but we’re wading into the land of voodoo. I can understand enjoying the ritual of playing LPs, though I personally do not.

Time to go - my tube amp is now warm!

 

[Chrispy]

Never felt a test was needed. DACs have been transparent for a long time. I've used various combos with my gear and never found the dac to be an issue.....

 

[1st.Virtual.Me]

Here's one:

Matrix-Hifi: Red Zone --> Recording Vinyl onto CD-R

Quote:
THE “ANALOGUE SOUND” RECORDED ONTO A CD IS PRESERVED 100%.

 

[tmtomh]

For me, the advent of the SugarCube clearly established that many vinyl aficionados' view that digital cannot capture the full analogue playback signal is about faith and cognitive dissonance and not facts or tests.

 

[LTig]

Yes, if you listen at volume, that can feedback into the turntable, but just don't do that while recording.

But then the rip does sound different, and the user might prefer the original over the rip and then blame it on digital audio.

 

[dualazmak]

Sorry to be a little bit out of the scope of this interesting thread, but just for your possible interest and reference...
I shared this post on my project thread;
- Summary of my motivations reviving vinyl TT (turntable) in DSP-based multichannel time-aligned multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active stereo audio setup: post #758

 

[Blumlein 88]

But then the rip does sound different, and the user might prefer the original over the rip and then blame it on digital audio.

I ran into exactly this with a friend. Re-recorded with the volume up and it sounds just like he expected. I convinced him by playing the first recording while recording his phono with the needle sitting on a stationary LP. Then playing that to show how much acoustic feedback there is.

 

[pma]

Is anyone aware of a double blind test that compares a digitized feed from a turntable to the analog signal from the turntable? I believe that a digitized signal at the Red Book standard from a turntable would be indistinguishable from the turntable feed in a well-controlled study. It isn't a test that I can perform because I dropped vinyl decades ago.

I did it, level matched, for my own purposes. There are caveats, like time synchro, but it is doable. Anyone with serious intent snould be capacable to prepare the test himself. Do not believe in debates, they are pointless. Just do it.

 

[dualazmak]

I did it, level matched, for my own purposes. There are caveats, like time synchro, but it is doable. Anyone with serious intent snould be capacable to prepare the test himself. Do not believe in debates, they are pointless. Just do it.

Fully agree! I too did it, level matched with exact synchro and semi-blind switch over either of them using my audio rig.

I also subjectively compared (not strict blind ABX though) on-the-fly listening to LP (through digitalization by an audio interface) and its CD remastering release on several LP+CD albums.

Spoiler

- My nostalgia and preference for large glass-face VU meters: DIY of 12-VU-Meter Array in multichannel multi-driver multi-way multi-amplifier stereo audio system: #535
- Another comparative listening, on-the-fly vinyl LP vs. Remastered CD: analog piano solo recorded in 1967: #722
- Another comparative listening; on-the-fly remastered vinyl LP vs. remastered CD: Bill Evans jazz piano trio, analog recorded in 1977; remastered (2021) vinyl LP (45-RPM 188-gram) vs. its CD release: #740

 

[Dinesh Menon]

Fully agree! I too did it, level matched with exact synchro and semi-blind switch over either of them using my audio rig.

I also subjectively compared (not strict blind ABX though) on-the-fly listening to LP (through digitalization by an audio interface) and its CD remastering release on several LP+CD albums.

Spoiler

- My nostalgia and preference for large glass-face VU meters: DIY of 12-VU-Meter Array in multichannel multi-driver multi-way multi-amplifier stereo audio system: #535
- Another comparative listening, on-the-fly vinyl LP vs. Remastered CD: analog piano solo recorded in 1967: #722
- Another comparative listening; on-the-fly remastered vinyl LP vs. remastered CD: Bill Evans jazz piano trio, analog recorded in 1977; remastered (2021) vinyl LP (45-RPM 188-gram) vs. its CD release: #740

Greetings Sir,
While searching for reviews on super tweeters, I came upon on your epic expertise in finding perfect harmony in audio systems.
Your posts are like a thesis in audiology.
I shared them in our HiFiVision forum.
Many of our FMs thanked me for the same.
I'll be going through your posts to finalize my ideal audio system.
Best wishes.