Beta-test: DeltaWave Null Comparison software

[pkane]

Any special trick needed to have the Phase delta plot function on Win10? Both 2.0.8 and 2.0.10 tested with same problem.

View attachment 324689

2023-11-08 01:27:21.2802|INFO|Wave.WaveForm|---- Phase difference (full bandwidth): 42,0426532979263°
2023-11-08 01:27:21.2802|INFO|Wave.WaveForm| 0-10kHz: 13,93°
2023-11-08 01:27:21.2802|INFO|Wave.WaveForm| 0-20kHz: 25,53°
2023-11-08 01:27:21.2802|INFO|Wave.WaveForm| 0-24kHz: 42,04°

DeltaWave works fine with Windows 8, 10 and 11, as does the phase plot. Maybe upload and share a link to the two files to see if others can reproduce this?

 

[Rantapossu]

You mean the support for a larger number of input/output channels? Sure, I can do that.

@pkane have you had time to implement this? Does the hardcoded channel selector even support this or should the selector be editable as in MultiTone?

 

[pkane]

@pkane have you had time to implement this? Does the hardcoded channel selector even support this or should the selector be editable as in MultiTone?

Working on it I have a larger new feature I'm finishing up, so will release these once both are done.

 

[pkane]

Preview version 2.0.11 of DeltaWave is now available for testing: https://app.box.com/s/hlglgy3aj39rjfxu343fho4t0cdrq9v8

Changes in this version:

• Added support for up to 128 channels when using the recorder. Channel number can be entered directly as a number: 1,2,3,4,5...128 for devices that support this.
• Added Loudness analysis and comparison feature

Loudness analysis is performed according to EBU R 128 specification. The new Loudness tab enables the direct view of loudness in LUFS units comparing reference and comparison waveforms, as well as showing the loudness analysis of the delta waveform. Momentary (400ms) and Short-term (3 sec) calculations are available, as well as, integrated loudness measure, loudness range, and true peak:

When Show Δ option is selected, the view changes to the display of the measured difference between the two waveforms:

When delta view is selected, the RMS value of momentary and short-term loudness of the difference. This is to allow for a more direct comparison with other metrics, including RMS of null, DF- and PK-Metric.

True Peak can be used to see and compare intersample overs in a reference and the recording.

Since the idea of Loudness measurement is a more psycho-acoustically accurate representation of how loud a waveform is, it is an interesting tool in analyzing audibility of the differences between two waveforms. Unlike PK-Metric, EBU R128 Loudness computation doesn't consider frequency masking or level masking effects, and doesn't use a level-specific frequency audibility curves. Nevertheless, the comparison should prove interesting

The results tab currently doesn't display the Loudness analysis. This will be added in a future version.

For loudness analysis that includes two channels (left and right) select "Stereo" channel option for both reference and comparison files.

 

[Grooved]

Preview version 2.0.11 of DeltaWave is now available for testing: https://app.box.com/s/hlglgy3aj39rjfxu343fho4t0cdrq9v8

Changes in this version:

• Added support for up to 128 channels when using the recorder. Channel number can be entered directly as a number: 1,2,3,4,5...128 for devices that support this.
• Added Loudness analysis and comparison feature

Hi @pkane
thanks for your work, but I tried to install this new version, and didn't see any change in the channels selection, so I completely uninstalled DW, then installed again and still the same.
I didn't see it at first, but it shows "v2.0.10", not "v2.0.11" like in your post

A link error? (clicking on it, it says the file is from Nov 10 at 8:16 PM)

 

[pkane]

Hi @pkane
thanks for your work, but I tried to install this new version, and didn't see any change in the channels selection, so I completely uninstalled DW, then installed again and still the same.
I didn't see it at first, but it shows "v2.0.10", not "v2.0.11" like in your post

A link error? (clicking on it, it says the file is from Nov 10 at 8:16 PM)

Hmm. Strange. I just rebuilt and re-uploaded a version. See if this works any better: https://app.box.com/s/hlglgy3aj39rjfxu343fho4t0cdrq9v8

 

[Rantapossu]

Hmm. Strange. I just rebuilt and re-uploaded a version. See if this works any better: https://app.box.com/s/hlglgy3aj39rjfxu343fho4t0cdrq9v8

Unfortunately, no:

Channel selector is just like before...

There is the "Loudness" tab although:

Is there a reason for the different number of the tabs? Your tabs:

 

[Rantapossu]

Unfortunately, no:

View attachment 326778

Channel selector is just like before...

There is the "Loudness" tab although:

View attachment 326784


Is there a reason for the different number of the tabs? Your tabs:

View attachment 326785

Sorry, user error. It works!

I tried to change the channels from the main window and not from the recorder window!

Should the main window channels be editable too?

Great job!!!

 

[pkane]

Sorry, user error. It works!

View attachment 326790

I tried to change the channels from the main window and not from the recorder window!

Should the main window channels be editable too?

Great job!!!

No, the main window only allows one or two channel selectors. It only handles mono or stereo files, the recorder allows only one or two channels to be recorded, but there you can pick which channels you want from the device.

Multichannel support is unlikely as it doesn’t do much for the functionality of DW but introduces a lot of complexity.

 

[Rantapossu]

Multichannel support is unlikely as it doesn’t do much for the functionality of DW but introduces a lot of complexity.

I have no need for multichannel functionality too (If you mean by that more than 2 simultaneus channels playing or recording), but selecting the certain output channels (Mono channel or a certain stereo pair) of all the available channels for the main window would be very useful.

For example, E-MU 0404 uses channels 3 and 4 for the digital inputs and outputs. Channels 1 and 2 are the analog inputs and outputs. I haven't tried yet, but if the newest version of DeltaWave accepts channels 3 and 4 for the output device when recording, I can connect my E-MU to the DAC via SPDIF and record the output of the DAC normally with E-MU analog input channels 1 and 2.

The problem arises when I try to play and compare those previously recorded files on the main window. There's only "Stereo", "L", "R" and "L+R" channels available there. I can no more use my SPDIF output and my DAC, because I can't select channels 3 and 4 as the digital output.

 

[pkane]

I have no need for multichannel functionality too (If you mean by that more than 2 simultaneus channels playing or recording), but selecting the certain output channels (Mono channel or a certain stereo pair) of all the available channels for the main window would be very useful.

For example, E-MU 0404 uses channels 3 and 4 for the digital and output. Channels 1 and 2 are the analog input and outputs. I haven't tried yet, but if the newest version of DeltaWave accepts channels 3 and 4 for the output device when recording, I can connect my E-MU to the DAC via SPDIF and record the output of the DAC normally with E-MU analog input channels 1 and 2.

The problem arises when I try to play and compare those previously recorded files on the main window. There's only "Stereo", "L", "R" and "L+R" channels available there. I can no more use my SPDIF output and my DAC, because I can't select channels 3 and 4 as the digital output.

I see. But that's also unlikely. The recorder and the main window are separate and use very different output methods. Rewriting the player in the DW main window will not be easy, as it is integrated with many existing functions. You can always save any of the files and then play them back in your favorite audio player that allows remapping of audio channels.

 

[pkane]

I see. But that's also unlikely. The recorder and the main window are separate and use very different output methods. Rewriting the player in the DW main window will not be easy, as it is integrated with many existing functions. You can always save any of the files and then play them back in your favorite audio player that allows remapping of audio channels.

BTW, @Rantapossu, you can use a product like the one described here to do the remapping while using DeltaWave. I've not tried it, but looks like it should help with remap channels for your output device:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/vb-matrix.48989/

 

[Rantapossu]

I see. But that's also unlikely. The recorder and the main window are separate and use very different output methods. Rewriting the player in the DW main window will not be easy, as it is integrated with many existing functions. You can always save any of the files and then play them back in your favorite audio player that allows remapping of audio channels.

Ok, thanks!

Can the recorder window use the output channels 3 and 4? It accepts the values, if I write them manually, but my E-MU 0404 is not connected, so I can't test it.

 

[Rantapossu]

BTW, @Rantapossu, you can use a product like the one described here to do the remapping while using DeltaWave. I've not tried it, but looks like it should help with remap channels for your output device:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/vb-matrix.48989/

Thanks for that too, I'll look that later!

 

[pkane]

Ok, thanks!

Can the recorder window use the output channels 3 and 4? It accepts the values, if I write them manually, but my E-MU 0404 is not connected, so I can't test it.

The recorder output can accept channel numbers up to 128 or to the maximum your device reports that it supports. If you want output to channels 3 and 4, enter 3+4 into the output channel selector.

 

[Rantapossu]

The recorder output can accept channel numbers up to 128 or to the maximum your device reports that it supports. If you want output to channels 3 and 4, enter 3+4 into the output channel selector.

That's super!

 

[Grooved]

Hmm. Strange. I just rebuilt and re-uploaded a version. See if this works any better: https://app.box.com/s/hlglgy3aj39rjfxu343fho4t0cdrq9v8

Thanks @pkane !

So, this one is showing v2.0.11 (the one from yesterday was v2.0.10, I still have it and the file size is a little bit different).

I can select an ASIO channel higher than L or R, but it's not as perfect than in Multitone Analyser at this moment:
- after testing an interface with 14 channels, I tried one with 22, selected 22 for In and 22 for Out, but DW displayed an error saying the number should be L, R,... up to 14 (like if it was the previous interface)
- I'm not sure the 3+4 method to output the stereo file on outputs 3-4 is working: for me, on the two interfaces, it sent the signal on all outputs at the same time (which I think is what happens also on Multitone Analyser if writing "3+4")
More important, even by selecting one channel, for example 3 and 3, I got a result with a difference of -18dB instead of -56dB when using the classic L+R (but the file is a stereo one, and using one channel create a mono file... so it might be possible that the file created is a sum of both channels but that it's then compared to one channel of the original file, or something like that)

I will do more tests later

 

[Rantapossu]

@pkane There's something wrong with the channel mapping, just like @Grooved said.

Stereo -> Stereo (Analog stereo -> Analog stereo with E-MU 0404) works still ok (The source file is the upper and the recording the lower graph):

3 -> Stereo (Optical left -> Analog stereo with E-MU 0404) plays the right channel (4) information on the left channel.

4 -> Stereo (Optical right -> Analog stereo with E-MU 0404) is correct:

3+4 -> Stereo (Optical stereo -> Analog stereo with E-MU 0404) plays right channel (4) information on both channels:

It seems to me that the player plays always on the correct channel, but sends the wrong information (The channel 4 source signal) to that channel. I have only 4 channels on my E-MU 0404, so I can't test further.

Maybe @Grooved can test this with his bigger interfaces?

 

[danadam]

Hi

The camera icon in the bottom left corner doesn't do anything for me. I expected it would offer me saving a screenshot or something.
(DeltaWave 2.0.10)

 

[pkane]

Hi

The camera icon in the bottom left corner doesn't do anything for me. I expected it would offer me saving a screenshot or something.
(DeltaWave 2.0.10)

It copies the current plot to clipboard. You’ll need to paste it (Ctrl-V) into something, like into an ASR post you’re writing.