Ummm ... that ship sank because no-one checked whether the steel of the time could handle handle icy waters without going brittle ... heyyy, said the engineers at the time, we know everything to know about metal, let the experts handle this!! Which meant, that the side of the ship ripped open like a can opener going through it - now just imagine if some whippersnapper had come along along, and said "I wonder if the temperature of the water could have an impact ... " ... the roar of laughter from the crowd of experienced engineers drowns out the rest ...
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
A Visit to Mike Lavigne's Home and Sound Galleries Media Server
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Nope!I haven't tried to measure what I hear in the variations of sound that matter, subjectively - largely because I was always reading everything that came along over the years, and the Big Message that came through was that those who could hear these differences AND had good access to all the usual measuring gear, weren't able to point to some numbers that popped up on a screen, and say, Aha! There's the gremlin!! ... what hope did liddl ol' me have ...
It's "devil in the details" noise and interference artifacts which are the baddies - and science puts these in the "too hard, inconvenient truth basket" ...
OK Frank. its the noise and interference artifacts , hummm, so we can measure noise, so that's done, so now, since you kn0w the other issue is an interference artifact, please describe what the definition of an interference artifact is.......yes sir....science sir, science...
Also, is there NO amplifier or electronics that are free of your interference artifact?
OMG Frank, really, that's what you got for us, well, all measureable and all can be below the limits of audibility. If they are in your HTIB set up or other better quality gear you have on hand, then yeah, you got work to do. For the rest of us, with mid to higher level quality gear, these "problems" are below audibility and therefore solved. Your struggle would be over with better spec'd and better designed gear, which exists, either new or used. I fear you been reading too many DIY sites where people are just discovering these things for the first time, its old, old news, among audio professionals. I realize you are an EE and not all EE are audio specialists by any means, but you can purchase gear where those issues are long ago solved. Get out the wallet Frank.
check out the link, your artifacts are gone, even at 1000W.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/...monoblock-power-amplifier#yks7xZTKxTIBuu0Q.97
I also added this link because here we have a reviewer who WANTS his gear to color everything with a SOUND he prefers, vs gear that does not color the sound, so he derides this astonishing amplifier as having a SOUND he does not prefer. OMG, get some tone controls MF to deal with your 35hz to 6khz hearing range on a good day.
check out the link, your artifacts are gone, even at 1000W.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/...monoblock-power-amplifier#yks7xZTKxTIBuu0Q.97
I also added this link because here we have a reviewer who WANTS his gear to color everything with a SOUND he prefers, vs gear that does not color the sound, so he derides this astonishing amplifier as having a SOUND he does not prefer. OMG, get some tone controls MF to deal with your 35hz to 6khz hearing range on a good day.
Last edited:
Chuck Gerlach
Member
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2016
- Messages
- 52
- Likes
- 34
Reading Amir's review of Mike's system brought back another similar situation. I remember reading the rave reviews and ALL positive accolades of another mega high end system. Each person who visited wen out of their way to say great things about the experience.
So while my wife and I were traveling to that part of the country, we visited this person's home. A super gracious host. There were lots of folks there but I spent quite some time in the sweet spot. EASILY one of worst listening experiences I have ever had - even worse than bad ones at audio shows. Bass was bloated and uneven and completely masked what should have been a superlative mid range. That ANYONE could think this was even remotely good was beyond me. Or maybe they just wanted to stroke his ego and his $400,000 (or higher audio system).
That said, while I have little doubt that Mike's system is excellent, I have little interest in hearing it. And he does not need people like me in his room. Once he failed his own blind test, he lost total crediblity with me. But his minions wait on every word he speaks.
Crazy hobby!
So while my wife and I were traveling to that part of the country, we visited this person's home. A super gracious host. There were lots of folks there but I spent quite some time in the sweet spot. EASILY one of worst listening experiences I have ever had - even worse than bad ones at audio shows. Bass was bloated and uneven and completely masked what should have been a superlative mid range. That ANYONE could think this was even remotely good was beyond me. Or maybe they just wanted to stroke his ego and his $400,000 (or higher audio system).
That said, while I have little doubt that Mike's system is excellent, I have little interest in hearing it. And he does not need people like me in his room. Once he failed his own blind test, he lost total crediblity with me. But his minions wait on every word he speaks.
Crazy hobby!
A good opportunity to case out his security system, no?
Chuck, I know I listened with you to a certain person's system when you were out my way and I remember you whispering to me about bloated bass.
Hey, I like classical music and have KEFs. Not big wooden ones.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
I'm just going to some out and say it:
If you claim to love music, and spend $500,000 on music reproduction, you are either an idiot, or in denial about what you really care about (i.e. it's really all about the gear).
For a real music lover, you could spend $50,000 per year traveling and attending live music events, in whatever genre, listening in the world's best venues, to the best artists, for 10 years straight.
If you claim to love music, and spend $500,000 on music reproduction, you are either an idiot, or in denial about what you really care about (i.e. it's really all about the gear).
For a real music lover, you could spend $50,000 per year traveling and attending live music events, in whatever genre, listening in the world's best venues, to the best artists, for 10 years straight.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
I still have memories of the times I saw Ray Charles, Dave Brubeck, and Frank Sinatra before they died.
I have memories of seeing Metallica and U2 in stadium arenas.
I have memories of seeing performances at the Vienna Opera House, the London Symphony Orchestra, Royal Concertgebouw, Tokyo Symphony Orchestra, musicals on Broadway, shows in Las Vegas.
I can share these memories with almost anyone in a conversation, and the descriptions of the events kindle memories in them, too, which they then share.
On the other hand, nobody gives a shit about or wants to hear about audio gear I've owned in my life.
I have memories of seeing Metallica and U2 in stadium arenas.
I have memories of seeing performances at the Vienna Opera House, the London Symphony Orchestra, Royal Concertgebouw, Tokyo Symphony Orchestra, musicals on Broadway, shows in Las Vegas.
I can share these memories with almost anyone in a conversation, and the descriptions of the events kindle memories in them, too, which they then share.
On the other hand, nobody gives a shit about or wants to hear about audio gear I've owned in my life.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Here's the other dumb thing about a $500k system:
It costs more than pretty much any monitors used in mixing / mastering.
It costs more than pretty much any monitors used in mixing / mastering.
I agree but there’s nothing to be gained by pitting one vs the other, I love music my hifi is just a tool to me. The intrest in Audio gear is a totally separate thing imo , I’m not massively intrested in Audio gear and never have been. I just found gear sounding different from one another intresting and frustrating tbh.
There’s no surprise nearly all obsessive audiophiles ( or just audiophiles) are men yet music is loved ( obsessively or not) by both sexes ( that’s my findings but open to data that shows otherwise) .
My mum was well jealous of me going to the New York philharmonic and being down at the vanguard for insider straight (Christian McBride and friends ) but has not much intrest in my hifi.. my girlfriends over the years all loved music , recently ( in the era of my hifi room) they have loved music in there but again no intrest in the gear..
Like I said , Iv no intrest in the gear just for the sake of it either.. how it works is intresting as is why we can easily misunderstand how it works. So how we work is probably my main intrest , Audio ( and audiophiles) is as good as any for a place to put the microscope .
Quite.
I have updated gear infrequently but have benefitted by better kit when I became better off but I buy loads of music, and I would far, far rather listen to an enjoyable performance with mediocre (usually vintage) recording than a fabulous recording of an interpretation I like less. In fact I took off a modern well recorded CD of Das Lied von der Erde yesterday because I wasn't enjoying the performance as much as an older CD which I then put on and enjoyed immensely.
OTOH as an engineer who initially worked in noise and vibration research the kit has always fascinated me, particularly the transducers.
My wife, a professional musician, choral conductor and voice coach has never been interested in the hifi, never uses it and researches her next performance by studying the score, and in the last 2 or 3 years on internet videos on her laptop. At no time does a lack of high fidelity make it difficult to appreciate these performances since tempi, dynamic shifts and so forth are plenty clear enough on a laptop speaker.
Conversly I am the opposite with photography - loads of expensive kit which I use sporadically, sorry.
I have updated gear infrequently but have benefitted by better kit when I became better off but I buy loads of music, and I would far, far rather listen to an enjoyable performance with mediocre (usually vintage) recording than a fabulous recording of an interpretation I like less. In fact I took off a modern well recorded CD of Das Lied von der Erde yesterday because I wasn't enjoying the performance as much as an older CD which I then put on and enjoyed immensely.
OTOH as an engineer who initially worked in noise and vibration research the kit has always fascinated me, particularly the transducers.
My wife, a professional musician, choral conductor and voice coach has never been interested in the hifi, never uses it and researches her next performance by studying the score, and in the last 2 or 3 years on internet videos on her laptop. At no time does a lack of high fidelity make it difficult to appreciate these performances since tempi, dynamic shifts and so forth are plenty clear enough on a laptop speaker.
Conversly I am the opposite with photography - loads of expensive kit which I use sporadically, sorry.
Introspection can lead one down the garden path but it’s also seductive due to its self affirming nature and when combined with a group think mentally can lead to some mad shit indeed lol
This is the intoxicating mix that often befalls the audiophile , they end up down the garden path without a hedge trimmer.
Apparently it’s a hobby though , I’d suggest it’s a full time occupation/identity for many.
This is the intoxicating mix that often befalls the audiophile , they end up down the garden path without a hedge trimmer.
Apparently it’s a hobby though , I’d suggest it’s a full time occupation/identity for many.
Analog Scott
Senior Member
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2017
- Messages
- 451
- Likes
- 44
Not trying to justify a half million dollar system but this is kind of a false dichotomy. No matter where you travel or how much you pay for a concert you won't get to see Jimi Hendrix, John Coltrane, Ivan Moravec etc. etc. I don't think there is any formula for fiscal proportions either. If one loves music they spend money on music as they see fit for their personal priorities and circumstances. Besides, I see nothing wrong with folks being gear heads. IMO it's a bit pretentious to look down one's nose at gear heads as inadequate music lovers and second rate audiophiles.
I don’t think he was but the two are not mutually exclusive imo. To get ‘ music’ spending that kind of money is unnecessary, all @watchnerd saying is they must be gear heads or lying to themselves.
No one really cares but Iv ment plenty of people who enjoy their creation ( set of components, hifi)as a abstract thing more so than the actual music. Non of them have claimed to be music lovers mind you. You will find many men who love their cars more than driving, in fact plenty who are out polishing their pride and joy can’t drive well at all irrespective of wether the vehicle is a Lamborghini or a Honda Civic .
You won’t find many people who love all kinds of music , who don’t subscribe to a type of tribalism or elitism as the base for their devotion or maybe just a innocent familiarity is the the founding motivation.
I for one can be found wearing the same cloths , so no ‘ uniform’ at trance gigs, metal gigs, jazz gigs , classical gigs etc etc and I can honestly say I’m fairly out of the ordinary in every instance. Most show conformity to the usual tribal signatures, clothing , class, tattoos, piecings, silk scarfs ...., doc martens
I don’t claim to be better, by observation I only claim to be odd...
I can’t comment on ML, I don’t know him and tbh he’s totally irrelevant to me. I don’t really understand why he’s gained such a sense of importance to so many here, maybe some of you see him as a figure head for audiophools but he’s a human being in the end of the day and I’d suggest giving him notoriety is self defeating and some of it is unnecessarily mean and being that way is far worse a character trait than spending too much on cables!
I don’t want us picking on normal folk , aim your cannon at hifi companies by all means and their representatives but let’s leave enthusiasts out of the line of fire where possible.
It is the male jewllery market or as Jon described it to me recently in the US it is known as the golf club crowd, no longer anything to do with Fidelity.
Keith
Keith
Sadly I think that musical snobbism is all too common. Many people I know say the type of music they don't enjoy is rubbish rather than just saying it is not to their taste.
Plenty of music which is clever and complex is not nice to listen to, and quite a few enjoyable catchy songs are musically unsophisticated - so there is no way to anticipate enjoyment by first analysing musical sophistication!
All it needs is some rigorous scientific listening tests to sort out the good stuff from the rubbish.