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Tidal now labels its HD files MAX sted of MASTERS. Where's MQA gone?

Galliardist

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Gone bankrupt.
It appears to still be in administration. The company website is still up, but no recent info there.
While they lost their main backer, there's no indication of actual bankruptcy, and someone will still be collecting the royalties and licensing fees, though we can expect those to fall off if something big doesn't happen.
 

Matias

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boxerfan88

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Anyone knows if Max is truly 192kHz from hires master copy, or are they upsampled copy of 44k1 ?
 

Matias

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Anyone knows if Max is truly 192kHz from hires master copy, or are they upsampled copy of 44k1 ?
That is an excellent question. There have been countless cases of digital files being sold as high res when they were just upsampled by the mastering studios. And I remember even reading from a mastering engineer that there are plugin tools to upsample that even reconstruct waves and recreate high frequency information so that it shows above 20-30 kHz. So even checking is not guaranteed to be a true hi res recording. Changing from hi res downloads to hi res streaming would not change anything. This market is corrupt and there is little we customers can do.
 

delta76

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This is incorrect
They have not filed for bankruptcy but for protection
https://www.whathifi.com/features/m...es-this-mean-for-tidal-and-supported-products

Never imagined one day I posted a link on what-hifi to ASR as a source

On April 6, 2023, the company owning the MQA license, currently trading as MQA Ltd. (we're using the term MQA interchangeably), announced via a statement that it was entering administration, the UK equivalent of filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in the United States.

IANAL but for us average people that means bankruptcy. of course someone which better understanding of corporate law can educate us on the matter.
 

Galliardist

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https://www.whathifi.com/features/m...es-this-mean-for-tidal-and-supported-products

Never imagined one day I posted a link on what-hifi to ASR as a source



IANAL but for us average people that means bankruptcy. of course someone which better understanding of corporate law can educate us on the matter.
An administrator is appointed when a company believes it is in danger of trading insolvent. This usually means that the company has debts it can't immediately repay, but it believes that some kind of restructure or sale of assets can prevent actual bankruptcy.
In the case that action had been taken to recover debts, action by a creditor would lead to the appointment of a receiver, or in liquidation. Appointing a receiver allows time to restructure the company, and the administrator acts on behalf of the company rather than the creditors.

It's not necessarily bankruptcy, but it does tell us that the company is in difficulties (and that may be putting it mildly).

See here:

Yes, a Wikipedia link. Is that worse than a What HiFi one?
 

Matias

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Galliardist

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It looks like most MAX tracks are still MQA.

Among new releases, "Last Rays of a Dying Sun" by Rain Parade is 44.1/24 FLAC, same as the Qobuz version.

"Cantatas Vol. 2" by Cantata Collective is 192/24 and my Dragonfly can't cope with it (Qobuz has it at 192/24 but my Dragonfly has the 48 blue).

The latest Hannover Band Bach Harpsichord Concertos shows as 96/24, again matching Qobuz. And "Days in the Desert" by High Pulp shows as 48, same as Qobuz again.

The Pink Floyd catalogue is all in high res FLAC, again matching Qobuz: again, anything that's 192/24 fails (plays quiet, with frequent gaps) on my Dragonfly.

I suspect some other albums that were previously MQA are now only playing as HIGH, not MAX.

The whole thing looks messy, because there is no indication of bitrate or file type in the app to work from.
 

Galliardist

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So, to confirm:
MAX means anything higher than 44.1/16. New high bitrate tracks are being loaded as FLACs and companies appear to be uploading the same bitrates to Tidal and Qobuz. A lot of albums are showing only as HIGH where they might otherwise have been MQA converted previously.

Most older tracks showing as MAX are still MQA, but some albums have been changed to FLAC already - see the Pink Floyd catalogue as noted above, which is now all FLAC at different bitrates.

Where this all goes wrong, is if you have a DAC that runs MQA but cannot cope with bitrates higher than 96/24: the result with a 192/24 track is bad.

That affects the Audioquest Dragonfly I'm testing with (a lot of those have been sold to people explicitly wanting Tidal MQA), the old Meridian Explorer DAC,and if I remember correctly, there was a NAD multiroom DAC with this spec. There will probably be others.

Qobuz has an option to play tracks at a maximum 24/96 for a limited DAC or bandwidth, and indication of what bitrate you are getting (though it doesn't indicate the few MQA albums in their catalogue). It seems that Tidal will need to implement such a system fairly quickly or customers with DACs that use MQA but a limited PCM bitrate are going to complain, as well as anyone who has bought into MQA based on the claims made.

Tidal are going to have to give users information about and control over what they are actually playing, or they will just antagonise those customers who didn't desert because of MQA. I can't see people racing back there in droves because it is now the same as Apple Music and Qobuz in quality terms, and I can see people with the limited DACs leaving for services that they can still use at "high resolution"... though it may hardly matter in practice.
 

Jimbob54

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So, to confirm:
MAX means anything higher than 44.1/16. New high bitrate tracks are being loaded as FLACs and companies appear to be uploading the same bitrates to Tidal and Qobuz. A lot of albums are showing only as HIGH where they might otherwise have been MQA converted previously.

Most older tracks showing as MAX are still MQA, but some albums have been changed to FLAC already - see the Pink Floyd catalogue as noted above, which is now all FLAC at different bitrates.

Where this all goes wrong, is if you have a DAC that runs MQA but cannot cope with bitrates higher than 96/24: the result with a 192/24 track is bad.

That affects the Audioquest Dragonfly I'm testing with (a lot of those have been sold to people explicitly wanting Tidal MQA), the old Meridian Explorer DAC,and if I remember correctly, there was a NAD multiroom DAC with this spec. There will probably be others.

Qobuz has an option to play tracks at a maximum 24/96 for a limited DAC or bandwidth, and indication of what bitrate you are getting (though it doesn't indicate the few MQA albums in their catalogue). It seems that Tidal will need to implement such a system fairly quickly or customers with DACs that use MQA but a limited PCM bitrate are going to complain, as well as anyone who has bought into MQA based on the claims made.

Tidal are going to have to give users information about and control over what they are actually playing, or they will just antagonise those customers who didn't desert because of MQA. I can't see people racing back there in droves because it is now the same as Apple Music and Qobuz in quality terms, and I can see people with the limited DACs leaving for services that they can still use at "high resolution"... though it may hardly matter in practice.
One suspects these initial moves to Max labels are a way to distance their highest tier from the MQA brand and tarnished tag that comes with it. But that's coming across as very reactionary and rushed.

They would have done better just stating they weren't up loading any new mqa files and beginning a slow process to replace mqa with hi res flac where possible. Which is what I took from their initial PR when mqa collapsed but now MAX seems to be a bit of a ruse.
 

RosalieTheDog

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What is the situation with streamers accepting "Max" streams? Does this require the Tidal Connect protocol?
My USB audio player still shows MQA or "Hifi" (44.1). My Chromecast audio, which supports up to 96khz/24bit, resambles "Max" to 44.1 (unlike Qobuz streams which, when specified to 96khz play as 96 khz).

I agree with the previous posts that "up to 192khz" is a very vague description that won't really satisfy their target audience. ;)
 

DVDdoug

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A lot of companies come-back from bankruptcy, sometimes more than once. Koss and Gibson have been through chapter 11. ...But I wouldn't bet on MQA coming back.

Sometimes a company is completely dissolved but the name, assets, and intellectual property are sold. The MQA patent is still valid and somebody (or some entity) will own it, even if it becomes worthless. Sometimes the brand name becomes worthless... Nobody wants the name "Enron". :D
 

TonyJZX

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a company comes back if their assets can continue to be profitable under new management

i doubt this is the case here

i think its come out they were burning money trying to get their 'tech' at every point in the 'chain', the source, the playback, royalities, hard copies, ie, discs.... and this is mandatory at this point... if you're not 'vertically integrated' youre no where

this is a niche tech and you can make comparisons with Dolby Atmos... there's some comparisons about these two being 'questionable' tech but guess which one will be successful?
 

Galliardist

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What is the situation with streamers accepting "Max" streams? Does this require the Tidal Connect protocol?
My USB audio player still shows MQA or "Hifi" (44.1). My Chromecast audio, which supports up to 96khz/24bit, resambles "Max" to 44.1 (unlike Qobuz streams which, when specified to 96khz play as 96 khz).

I agree with the previous posts that "up to 192khz" is a very vague description that won't really satisfy their target audience. ;)
Can you check tbe specific albums I listed? Some MAX streams are 44.1/24 and will show accordingly.
 

kemmler3D

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a company comes back if their assets can continue to be profitable under new management

i doubt this is the case here

i think its come out they were burning money trying to get their 'tech' at every point in the 'chain', the source, the playback, royalities, hard copies, ie, discs.... and this is mandatory at this point... if you're not 'vertically integrated' youre no where

this is a niche tech and you can make comparisons with Dolby Atmos... there's some comparisons about these two being 'questionable' tech but guess which one will be successful?
Dolby Atmos at least does something that's plausibly beneficial to the consumer.

MQA is a way to save bandwidth nobody was trying to save, introduce DRM nobody asked for, masquerading as a sound quality improvement that was scientifically impossible. It was a naked attempt to exploit ignorance of audio technology from Day 1, and the fact that it lasted as long as it did is a blight on the already dismal ethical track record of the consumer audio industry.
 

Galliardist

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One suspects these initial moves to Max labels are a way to distance their highest tier from the MQA brand and tarnished tag that comes with it. But that's coming across as very reactionary and rushed.

They would have done better just stating they weren't up loading any new mqa files and beginning a slow process to replace mqa with hi res flac where possible. Which is what I took from their initial PR when mqa collapsed but now MAX seems to be a bit of a ruse.
I can't find any recent files (July 23) in MQA format, but of course it's hard to tell given that there will be thousands of new additions. The thing is, they can't hide the presence of MQA from users with MQA DACs where the magic light comes on. They could block MQA passthrough and remove decoding from their app in which case MQA would be hidden. That may be their next move.
 

Chrispy

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More useless marketing like MQA in the first place? What a surprise. Tidal is just not on my radar for any reason....
 

Jimbob54

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I can't find any recent files (July 23) in MQA format, but of course it's hard to tell given that there will be thousands of new additions. The thing is, they can't hide the presence of MQA from users with MQA DACs where the magic light comes on. They could block MQA passthrough and remove decoding from their app in which case MQA would be hidden. That may be their next move.
Just had a look on uapp at the tidal new tracks list . Seems to tie in with @Esss post above on goldensounds report from roon. Looks like some client side app updates as well as some region updates on tidals side is needed
 

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