Tidal now labels its HD files MAX sted of MASTERS. Where's MQA gone?

[RosalieTheDog]

Goldensound did - https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-compatibility-with-new-tidal-hires-flac/246363/86

Interesting, if 'Max' only works in the Tidal client, not on Tidal connect, USBPro etc, that basically means that "Max" is only played on desktop with exclusive mode for now?

That does remind me of the MQA marketing a bit. Sell users an "upgrade in sound quality", show users a shiny new colour which does not actually play the "higher quality" file at all (unless in very specific installations).

 

[Galliardist]

https://support.tidal.com/hc/en-us/articles/17412130162961-HiRes-FLAC-and-new-audio-quality-levels

Note that Tidal Connect, Sonos and Chromecast are supposed to still be getting MQA - high rate FLAC not supposed to be used yet.

Also, most third party apps need to be updated to get high bitrate FLAC. I don't have much to offer here, but Audirvana is currently supplying MQA still.

Presumably if titles are only uplaoded as high bitrate FLAC then those apps not converted yet, will only get HIGH (16/44.1) for those titles.

The quick test here is DSOTM! There are two versions - the "normal" one is 96/24, the 2023 remaster is 192/24, both will be MQA if your system doesn't get high bitrate FLAC yet. That shoiuld give away your own situation.

No MQA titles are actually being removed, they just can't be accessed if a MAX FLAC version is available.

Interesting, if 'Max' only works in the Tidal client, not on Tidal connect, USBPro etc, that basically means that "Max" is only played on desktop with exclusive mode for now?

Yes, or so it appears. And you need a 192/24 capable DAC. My Dragonfly plays 192 at low volume and pauses: it's not 192 capable, and seems to be trying to play at 24/48.
If I use my internal PC DAC I have no idea what MAX is doing at all.

 

[Esss]

For laptops,You don't necessairly need a DAC for FLAC on Tidal - HDMI to your AVR (see my earlier post) should be enough. Also @RosalieTheDog - the reason third party apps (like Roon, Audirvana, BluOS as well as apps embedded in AVRs and streamers) cannot receive FLAC is because its just too early in the rollout - I am not sure if the beta is even over just yet. But my expectation (at least what I would do) is that they will implement on one platform at a time and work on bugs, then move to the next - remember when Apple Music started lossless and hires lossless - it was bugs galore and people were not happy(even though they were beta testing) that a company the size of Apple implements something with so many bugs. Tidal, in comparison to Apple - is a fraction compared to the tax Apple pays - so we should see other platform rolling in and each one will have its share of annoying bugs to clean in the coming months.

 

[Jimbob54]

My UK based tidal android app moved to Max last night. Tidal via uapp still shows mqa files as expected based on tidal support info and other posts on this thread. Will be interesting what happens as third party clients and Connect update.

As an aside, I'm only a HiFi (billed as lossless CD quality so 16/44.1) sub. Based on this https://goldensound.audio/2021/11/29/tidal-hifi-is-not-lossless/ I wonder what will happen in a non mqa world. If the max version is (say) 24/96, will hifi subs get a 16/44.1 downsampled on the fly or will they require artists to supply a 16/44 and 24/96 version. I doubt the latter very much.

I'm working already on the assumption that their low quality lossy setting is just an on the fly downsampled /format converted version of a higher quality file already on their servers. I can't see them storing 3 versions of every track.

Suppose a linked question is what do other services do here. Qobuz have a highest res setting, a lossless one and a reduced lossy one. Imagine same applies there, the middle setting just gets a converted version of the highest res.

 

[Music1969]

Should have been FLAC up to 24/192 right from the start anyway...

Tidal Connect is nice with things like WiiM Mini, Bluesound etc.

If they had started with 24/192 to go with their Tidal Connect, they would not have lost so many to Qobuz, Amazon Music HD etc

Now they try to catchup - surely they will have to reduce pricing a bit

 

[Jimbob54]

Tidal Connect is nice with things like WiiM Mini, Bluesound etc.

If they had started with 24/192 to go with their Tidal Connect, they would not have lost so many to Qobuz, Amazon Music HD etc

Now they try to catchup - surely they will have to reduce pricing a bit

Suspect the only way they could reduce pricing is by merging the hifi and hifi plus tiers and offering for say £15 inbetween 2 current tiers. But that would be gambling existing hifi users stay and more overall sign up.

I doubt they can afford to lower hi res to the £10ish level qobuz offer it at (via annual sub) and defo not at amazon prices. I don't see how that alone would increase subs base when existing services already offer. I do feel a little sorry for tidal, they painted themselves into a corner with mqa that is very hard to get out of.

Leaving file quality /type to one side, I actually like the service. Works for me as it can handle large playlists (amazon and qobuz can't), Connect is nice if you have the need. It also plays nicely with uapp and if used regularly has decent recommendations.

 

[Galliardist]

My UK based tidal android app moved to Max last night. Tidal via uapp still shows mqa files as expected based on tidal support info and other posts on this thread. Will be interesting what happens as third party clients and Connect update.

As an aside, I'm only a HiFi (billed as lossless CD quality so 16/44.1) sub. Based on this https://goldensound.audio/2021/11/29/tidal-hifi-is-not-lossless/ I wonder what will happen in a non mqa world. If the max version is (say) 24/96, will hifi subs get a 16/44.1 downsampled on the fly or will they require artists to supply a 16/44 and 24/96 version. I doubt the latter very much.

I'm working already on the assumption that their low quality lossy setting is just an on the fly downsampled /format converted version of a higher quality file already on their servers. I can't see them storing 3 versions of every track.

Suppose a linked question is what do other services do here. Qobuz have a highest res setting, a lossless one and a reduced lossy one. Imagine same applies there, the middle setting just gets a converted version of the highest res.

We are a long way away from a non-mqa world with Tidal yet. Less than 10% of MAX files are non-MQA.

Without knowing what Tidal is paying to who, I don't know what incentives are there for tracks to change, either.

You may be better off with downsampled 24 bit on the high tier, given the higher bitrate files may not be squashed while 16/44.1 files are. It's all a case of wait and see.

 

[Jimbob54]

You may be better off with downsampled 24 bit on the high tier, given the higher bitrate files may not be squashed while 16/44.1 files are. I

I'm not £10 a month levels of bothered though. Hifi sounds fine for my use. Tbh, if Spotify or Amazon worked with uapp on android I would just use those.

 

[My adventures in stereo]

got the update your client, to enjoy FLAC
Moved on from Master to Max, all Hail the new Master

 

[ModDIY]

Several parts have gone from MQA (Master) to MAX which are for several at 16bits 44.1khz and others from 24/196 to 24/48khz... what's the joke??

 

[chelgrian]

This is incorrect
They have not filed for bankruptcy but for protection

I covered this when the news was first reported .

There is no equivalent of chapter 11 in the UK. When a company is placed in to administration the current management are fired and replaced by an insolvency practitioner.

The sole duty of the practitioner is to recover the maximum return for creditors that may involve selling the company as a going concern or it may not.

If it is not possible to sell the company out of administration it is wound up.

 

[formdissolve]

Had both Tidal and Qobuz for about a year.. Some albums were on Tidal that weren't on Qobuz and vice versa. Ending up keeping Qobuz because it has the vast majority of stuff I want and the yearly rate is ~$145. Works with Roon, and also up to 24/192 in their web player as needed. Their standalone app isn't amazing, but works fine.

Wasn't a huge fan of Tidal's UX/UI and the MQA premium price wasn't worth it to me - $240 a year plus tax! MQA just felt like another buzz product to make more money on catalogue titles anyways.

 

[Galliardist]

I covered this when the news was first reported .

There is no equivalent of chapter 11 in the UK. When a company is placed in to administration the current management are fired and replaced by an insolvency practitioner.

The sole duty of the practitioner is to recover the maximum return for creditors that may involve selling the company as a going concern or it may not.

If it is not possible to sell the company out of administration it is wound up.

You are confusing administration and receivership.
The difference seems subtle, but an administrator has the job of trying to save the company then to dissolve it if that is not possible. An administrator is appointed when the company requests it:

A receiver is appointed when a creditor takes action to recover money, and has the responsibilities you set out.

 

[chelgrian]

You are confusing administration and receivership.
The difference seems subtle, but an administrator has the job of trying to save the company then to dissolve it if that is not possible. An administrator is appointed when the company requests it:

A receiver is appointed when a creditor takes action to recover money, and has the responsibilities you set out.

Put your company into administration

How to put your limited company or limited liability partnership into administration - what administration is, appointing an administrator, when administration ends

www.gov.uk

Particularly an administrator must present a plan to creditors and the creditors must approve that plan. In some cases creditors will agree to a CVA or a debt for equity swap as they believe they will realise more money in the long term by doing so. The one thing the creditors cannot do while in administration is apply for a winding up petition which would result in the company being immediately liquidated. However if the company cannot reach an agreement with creditors or cannot be sold it will be liquidated.

The important difference between US chapter 11 and UK administration is that the current management hand over control of the company to the administrator which is not necessarily true in chapter 11.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/45/schedule/B1

Sets out the permitted purposes of administration:

"The administrator of a company must perform his functions with the objective of—

(a)rescuing the company as a going concern, or

(b)achieving a better result for the company’s creditors as a whole than would be likely if the company were wound up (without first being in administration), or

(c)realising property in order to make a distribution to one or more secured or preferential creditors.

(2)Subject to sub-paragraph (4), the administrator of a company must perform his functions in the interests of the company’s creditors as a whole."

That is to say it is only permitted to rescue the company as a going concern *if* it is in the interests of creditors.

 

[Galliardist]

Put your company into administration

How to put your limited company or limited liability partnership into administration - what administration is, appointing an administrator, when administration ends

www.gov.uk

Particularly an administrator must present a plan to creditors and the creditors must approve that plan. In some cases creditors will agree to a CVA or a debt for equity swap as they believe they will realise more money in the long term by doing so. The one thing the creditors cannot do while in administration is apply for a winding up petition which would result in the company being immediately liquidated. However if the company cannot reach an agreement with creditors or cannot be sold it will be liquidated.

The important difference between US chapter 11 and UK administration is that the current management hand over control of the company to the administrator which is not necessarily true in chapter 11.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/45/schedule/B1

Sets out the permitted purposes of administration:

"The administrator of a company must perform his functions with the objective of—

(a)rescuing the company as a going concern, or

(b)achieving a better result for the company’s creditors as a whole than would be likely if the company were wound up (without first being in administration), or

(c)realising property in order to make a distribution to one or more secured or preferential creditors.

(2)Subject to sub-paragraph (4), the administrator of a company must perform his functions in the interests of the company’s creditors as a whole."

That is to say it is only permitted to rescue the company as a going concern *if* it is in the interests of creditors.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Ron Texas]

MQA declared bankrupt, Tidal refused to buy them out. now they probably do not want to associated themselves with MQA/Master anymore

RIP, it couldn't happen soon enough.

 

[Ron Texas]

Is this MQA company in administration in the UK or bankruptcy in the US? As @Galliardist points out, in the UK an administrator takes over while in the US management usually stays in place. In the US chapter 11 is used by management to keep their jobs even though they ran the company into failure. It's a world of difference.

 

[Galliardist]

Several parts have gone from MQA (Master) to MAX which are for several at 16bits 44.1khz and others from 24/196 to 24/48khz... what's the joke??

MAX can be anything “above” 16/44.1 - and that can be MQA, or 24 bit at 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 or 192 PCM FLAC.

I’ve yet to see a 176.4 FLAC.

As I understand it, MQA on tbe desktop apps will do the first “unfold” and show as 24/96 even if the file that was encoded started as 16/44.1 PCM - some of the 2L files at the beginning were that way.

Most of the PCM FLAC files appearing in Tidal are the same as the files in Qobuz, and a lot of those are 24/44.1.

Progress in getting PCM FLAC files into Tidal is going faster than I expected to see, for rock titles at least.

 

[Galliardist]

Is this MQA company in administration in the UK or bankruptcy in the US? As @Galliardist points out, in the UK an administrator takes over while in the US management usually stays in place. In the US chapter 11 is used by management to keep their jobs even though they ran the company into failure. It's a world of difference.

MQA Ltd is in administration in tbe UK.

@chelgrian’s latest post sets out the position best.

I don’t think there’s much chance of the company being rescued though. It’s main business comes through the association with Tidal that is now gone.The administration seems to be about getting better value from the company’s other asset, the SCL6 Bluetooth codec. It appears that may not be as valuable as was being made out, either, though.

 

[ModDIY]

I'm thinking of switching from Tidal to Qobuz.

I have a question: the Qobuz Studio plan, are the files all 24 bits?