My First High End IEM - 64 Audio U12t

[Deleted member 57422]

You could've bought an ER4SR and get all the details that you need for mixing (yes it also has -26 dB isolation) but instead wasted it on this snake oil

100% Correct. Thanks for rubbing salt on the open wound. I was not aware of that by now.

 

[Deleted member 57422]

Just to put things in context. I spend 6 months every year out of my own studio ( for legal tax reason).

When out in the wild, I cannot bring my studio monitors with me for 2 specific reason.

1- The place where I live never include a properly acousticly treated space.
2- The weight of my monitors would cost me about 3 to 400$ to bring in a pelican case which defeat the purpose.

This year, while in Colombia, I decided to take 5 contracts from friends and acquaintances and tried to mix them on a set of Mpow x3 (50$ MSRP). Basically a set of bluetooth earphone I use to travel and watch movies in the airplane.

To my biggest surprise, all of my mixes came out extremely well.

Before that, It never even crossed my mind that I could use a set of IEM to mix music as I always felt they were so inaccurate, but after mixing my first project, I rented a studio session to make my final revision In Santa marta, where I was located, and the result was shockingly great. I was jaw dropped and the studio owner didn't believe me when I showed him what I used to make those records.

I sent the final result to the artist and WMG A&R and manager and everyone were pleased.

So i took 4 other contracts and they all were just as satisfied.

So when I came back home last Saturday, I was a man on a mission to get a superior set of IEM as I was not fully converted to the capacity that it came naturally like a religious believer.

So I started making research in different website with reviews and tonal balance and frequency graph and the U12t really often came out. That one and the Monarch MK2.

Before making some research, I was thinking of buying the KSE 1200 but then I thought to myself '' those hi-fi guys can't all be fanboy bums that talk trash all day for cloot'' and decided to follow their lead and go with what was widely regarded as the best IEM in this community.

So I joined a discord channel from those ''knowledgeable reviewers'' to discuss that matter with many user of that super famous IEM ranking community.

The U12t was a final suggestion there and was agreed as the best suggestion among all participating users.

Fast forward to today, Here I am understanding that yes, bums do stand together as a gang of ignorant.

There , that's the whole story.

 

[Zensō]

Just to put things in context. I spend 6 months every year out of my own studio ( for legal tax reason).

When out in the wild, I cannot bring my studio monitors with me for 2 specific reason.

1- The place where I live never include a properly acousticly treated space.
2- The weight of my monitors would cost me about 3 to 400$ to bring in a pelican case which defeat the purpose.

This year, while in Colombia, I decided to take 5 contracts from friends and acquaintances and tried to mix them on a set of Mpow x3 (50$ MSRP). Basically a set of bluetooth earphone I use to travel and watch movies in the airplane.

To my biggest surprise, all of my mixes came out extremely well.

Before that, It never even crossed my mind that I could use a set of IEM to mix music as I always felt they were so inaccurate, but after mixing my first project, I rented a studio session to make my final revision In Santa marta, where I was located, and the result was shockingly great. I was jaw dropped and the studio owner didn't believe me when I showed him what I used to make those records.

I sent the final result to the artist and WMG A&R and manager and everyone were pleased.

So i took 4 other contracts and they all were just as satisfied.

So when I came back home last Saturday, I was a man on a mission to get a superior set of IEM as I was not fully converted to the capacity that it came naturally like a religious believer.

So I started making research in different website with reviews and tonal balance and frequency graph and the U12t really often came out. That one and the Monarch MK2.

Before making some research, I was thinking of buying the KSE 1200 but then I thought to myself '' those hi-fi guys can't all be fanboy bums that talk trash all day for cloot'' and decided to follow their lead and go with what was widely regarded as the best IEM in this community.

So I joined a discord channel from those ''knowledgeable reviewers'' to discuss that matter with many user of that super famous IEM ranking community.

The U12t was a final suggestion there and was agreed as the best suggestion among all participating users.

Fast forward to today, Here I am understanding that yes, bums do stand together as a gang of ignorant.

There , that's the whole story.

The silver lining in this story is that you’ve had an epiphany and now your eyes are opened.

Having had a similar experience, I pretty much stay away from anything endorsed by the mainstream audiophile community. So for critical listening I use only pro audio gear, and for casual listening I use consumer gear. If chosen carefully, pro gear is high performance without the audiophile tax and associated BS (think RME, Genelec, et al). On the other end of the spectrum, some of the better consumer gear has interesting tech and it may benefit from economies of scale (e.g., Sonos, Apple).

 

[Deleted member 57422]

On the other end of the spectrum, some of the better consumer gear has interesting tech and it may benefit from economies of scale.

And that's exactly where I f*cked up. I thought I could play smart pants and reinvent the wheel by buying some obscur esoteric gear and keep on delivering incredible result in a less then optimal situation.

And bang, shot myself right in the foot and now you see my jumping around like a Dalton in Lucky Luke.

 

[Deleted member 57422]

I'm thinking of an escape route here.

What If I try to exchange them for a set of Focal Clear MG or Sennies HD800?

 

[Moonhead]

Sorry for Your loss mate, now hurry up and return that little bastard.

 

[Soandso]

@martel80 - Manufacturer touts it's an "... open balanced armature ...." Well Iwonder if your precise review parsings might be related to a unit that slipped through quality control [or graded "B" stock highly discounted to dealers] of it's "... 12 driver ..." configuration that "... radiate freely into a single bore ...." Otherwise we have to believe the product is fooling lots of people.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

Some might argue that the company (like a number of others) entered the audiophile market because audiophiles are accustomed to over paying for products that don’t justify their high price tag.

From what I know, the audiophile market came to them. They were making In-Ears for people on stage and audiophiles got into the custom in ear market. I know how much the parts for these in-ears cost and they are not overcharging for them. I have seen how much goes into making them and it's staggering. So, while some people may not be happy with how they perform with some basic tests, I know that they out perform any other in-ear I've used on stage. Those frequency response graphs that are posted here are not very useful since it will vary drastically depending on how they fit into your ear. It's similar to sitting in front of a speaker or 90 degrees to the side. The frequency response changes if they aren't fitting correctly. Customs fit much better.

 

[Vict0r]

Expensive lessons stick better than cheap lessons, I always say. Get rid of those things now. Return them, sell them, whatever. Get rid of that sour aftertaste and get yourself something proper. Moondrop does really well, and Etymotic is a safe bet. Maybe look into some mini monitors for travel? Properly EQ'ed and calibrated, I'm getting quite reliable and neutral sound from my iLoud MTM's, for example.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

You could've bought an ER4SR and get all the details that you need for mixing (yes it also has -26 dB isolation) but instead wasted it on this snake oil

They might claim 26db of isolation but I can assure you that isn't true, especially in a lower frequency range. You can call 64 Audio snake oil all you want but I know loads of professional engineers and musicians who use them and love them. Sometimes, the application doesn't fit, but calling it snake oil is inaccurate.

 

[GaryH]

not going to name the famous IEM ranking website Discord community

Why not? Snake oil proponents should be named and shamed, to prevent others from being duped by their BS and ripped off with extortionate prices for mediocre sound.

 

[Honken]

They might claim 26db of isolation but I can assure you that isn't true, especially in a lower frequency range. You can call 64 Audio snake oil all you want but I know loads of professional engineers and musicians who use them and love them. Sometimes, the application doesn't fit, but calling it snake oil is inaccurate.

Would that be better than other custom IEMs, or an inherent property of custom molds?

@martel80 Sorry for your expensive lesson. Before you rush to buy something else, do read some of the reviews of headphones and IEMs here. There's far less woo than I've seen elsewhere on the net (but the forum is of course not 100% objective all the time).

My personal recommendation would be that you do not trade the U12t for another expensive headphone, you can get good performers for much less and especially IEMs are a bit subjective (especially outside of the sound, for example like how well the IEM fits your own ear). Objective data with some trial and error can help you identify what is right for you, chances are that you don't find the perfect match on your first try.

Edit: typo

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

Would that be better than other custom IEMs, or an inherent property of custom molds?

@martel80 Sorry for your expensive lesson. Before you rush to buy something else, do read some of the reviews of headphones and IEMs here. There's far less woo than I've seen elsewhere on the net (but the forum is of course not 100% objective all the time).

My personal recommendation would be that you do not trade the U12t for another expensive headphone, you can get good performers for much less and especially IEMs are a bit subjective (especially outside of the sound, things like how well the IEM fits your own ear). Objective data and some trial and data can help you identify what is right for you, chances are that you don't find the perfect match on your first try.

Custom IEMS, when sealed properly in the ear are between 26 and 40db of reduction. The hard plastic (which is 90% of them out there) give you around 26db. The soft plastic IEMS (Sensaphonics) seal a bit better and can reduce as much as 40db. A manufacturer can claim 26db of reduction but I would question which frequency that is at. Custom IEMS reduce across there whole frequency range because (when fitted properly) they seal in 2 places; the inner ear canal and around the outside of the ear. It's like having a double layer ear plug. With this seal, they perform differently in your ear. It's similar to a sealed woofer. The generic in-ears are pretty much like taking a sealed woofer set up and creating leaks in it. They also don't get as deep into your ear to point at your ear drum. So, even doing a test like Amir has done, doesn't tell the whole story at all. When the in ears make a good seal in your ear, the air is trapped and that contributes to how the in ear performs. The 64 audio stuff has the LID technology that helps vent that (kind of like a cross between a port and passive woofer). But this won't work very well in a generic. I've listened to the 64 audio generics and I didn't like them as much, but when I began mixing on the customs I never looked back. And again, the customs don't cost much more, but the difference is staggering. I spend about 150-200 days a year mixing on in-ears and the 64 audio are the best I've ever used.

 

[Keith_W]

Your experience with this IEM does not seem to correlate with measurements of the IEM, or my own personal experience with them (no I do not own them). I did not think they sounded excessively bassy or sparkly at all. I don't discount your experience though. At this stage I am thinking either manufacturing defect, or they just don't suit your ear canal. Regardless, if you are not happy with them, you should return them.

This is an important lesson: do not buy anything without listening to them first. Measurements are one thing, but measurements on a test dummy do not necessarily transfer to your head. If you MUST buy something without listening, make sure you read the returns policy, and have it confirmed verbally and in writing. I will only pay for shipping and a reasonable restocking fee. If they don't agree, I don't buy. Simple as that.

 

[Jeromeof]

Feel bad for you @martel80 - not sure if it relevant but I created a post the other day with my experience looking for a higher end IEM (though nothing as expensive as $2000 - I had set a budget of $250) - but most of the thread linked below is really, just explaining my process which is more / less trying to understand my own ears and the difference different size and shapes of ear tips made to the sound I heard (using Tone Generation and comparing initially with some similar AKG headphones). I wanted something both comfortable and neutral with a little bass boost and a little "higher end" than the IEM's had I previously bought. Specifically for long walks (with an iPhone) later in the year - so mostly EQ was out of the question - so I use a few good but 'harman' IEM's (truthear zero, Moondrop Chu) to do lot of experiments testing how different shapes and my own ears made before trying to figure out what higher end IEM in my price range would suit me.

Anyway maybe it can be useful: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...cience-to-find-the-perfect-iem-for-you.43360/

 

[markanini]

Just get Truthear Hola, your endgame hunt will be over. Not my statement originally, but I bought a set and it was very good. I'm judging prior purchases differently after this.
EDIT: You mention doing mixing work, The Hola does things different than other IEMs in this area IME, first the detail levels are easy to relate to speakers, second the upper bass is present in a way that it doesn't give everything exaggerated clarity, I able to judge whether something in fact sounds muddy of thin. For example the bass guitar on Enter Sandman is present, like on speakers, whereas most IEMs and many headphone tuck it away. A different set that I found helpful was AKG K371, I could easily hear sample layering with it, like a Linn kick drum front with a 808 tail in a pop song. I still let my speakers veto any mixing decisions because that gives me the best translatability.

 

[Matias]

I'm thinking of an escape route here.

What If I try to exchange them for a set of Focal Clear MG or Sennies HD800?

Sad story, but you have your way out: they are still brand new, so trade them in, return, sell or just dispose of any way where you can get most of you money back.

IMO you should start trying a few of the entry level 20 usd IEMs, apply EQ to fix what you need, compare to alternatives in the squig databases, and find your perfect tonality (FR curve). Only when you find higher end model following your curve then start spending big money on them. And still preferably from a store with a good return policy. Then your chances of disappointment will be close to zero.

 

[Jeromeof]

Sad story, but you have your way out: they are still brand new, so trade them in, return, sell or just dispose of any way where you can get most of you money back.

IMO you should start trying a few of the entry level 20 usd IEMs, apply EQ to fix what you need, compare to alternatives in the squig databases, and find your perfect tonality (FR curve). Only when you find higher end model following your curve then start spending big money on them. And still preferably from a store with a good return policy. Then your chances of disappointment will be close to zero.

I would agree that was mostly my process in that other thread I mentioned

 

[majingotan]

I'm thinking of an escape route here.

What If I try to exchange them for a set of Focal Clear MG or Sennies HD800?

Save yourself a ton of money and get something like a Sony MDR 7506 or Sennheiser HD600 instead. For IEMs, mixing on an ER2SR would 100% suffice. You’ve already had a success mixing with a BT earphone so there’s absolutely zero reasons to burn money on kilobuck HP or IEM

They might claim 26db of isolation but I can assure you that isn't true, especially in a lower frequency range. You can call 64 Audio snake oil all you want but I know loads of professional engineers and musicians who use them and love them. Sometimes, the application doesn't fit, but calling it snake oil is inaccurate.

I was referring to the Moon Audio Silver Dragon cable that OP purchased, not the 64 Audio IEM themselves. Like I wrote before I personally heard almost every 64 Audio universal line up. ALL of them except for the U18t have exaggerated bass response when listened at a quiet room. None of them just don’t sound any close to their asking price especially comparing them to a sub 500 planar headphone. Beyond truthear zero, diminishing returns just absolutely kicks in hard and now everything is just subjective preference from that point

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

First let me take the time to thank @martel80 for this sincere and honest review. It is a service to audiophiles. That is after all what ASR is about: LEt it be known that there is a Science to correct audio reproduction. In this ASR has constantly shown to us that there is almost no correlation between price and performance; with $7.95 DAC + Amplifier + ADC (Yes that Apple dongle is also an ADC) being superior to a $15,000.oo highly-touted-by-the- HEA-audiophile- press DAC. Other examples are countless. When objective parameters are the metrics price bear little to no correlation, to performance.
A different IEM from the same brands, the 64 Audio tia Trió IEM was reviewed here and it didn't fare well... ASR has shown to many, that the TCZ at $50.oo is SOTA. There are perhaps some IEMs that could be better than the TCZ. These have not yet been reviewed by ASR. The TCZ IEM has redefined the threshold for SOTA. It just has, but IEM being ... in-ears monitors, performance does depend to a certain degree on particular anatomy, thus the TCZ may not fit all ears... Its price point however defines how much one should pay...
I hope this is not construed as " adding salt to the wound" but next time, use an ASR review in your search for any component.

Peace.