When did you decide to study STEM major in university? Tips for my daughter?

[Pdxwayne]

Job nr. 1: find your passion!! It’s not just the years in uni. This choice will most likely influence the rest of your life. You better make the best possible choice!

I’ve had friends that were basically good at everything.. tried 3 studies before finishing one and eventually he still doesn’t know what exactly his passion is. Oh, he also did a PHD, which took forever to complete

Wow. I hope she could find her passion sooner than that.

 

[hardisj]

Yeah, actually she is the one who worries the most because by end of this year she will need to start applying for university. : )

What actual grade is she in? Junior High here is 8-9th grade. I'm just blown away that anyone would need to submit applications over a year before they plan to graduate. Is that the norm now?

 

[tgray]

My wife and I earn good money.....Thus unlikely to get much aids from any of the top schools. Those schools don't offer merit scholarship. : (

So, either we pay top dollars for a top school for my daughter to figure out her passion, or we pay a lot less for in-state as she get can merit scholarships....

You might be surprised. For example, see this page at Princeton. If you are making more than that, lucky you

 

[Pdxwayne]

What actual grade is she in? Junior High here is 8-9th grade. I'm just blown away that anyone would need to submit applications over a year before they plan to graduate. Is that the norm now?

She is grade 11th. This Fall she will be senior. It is normal for Senior (grade 12, the last year in high school before university) to apply for early admission during first term of senior year, which is this Fall.

 

[Pdxwayne]

You might be surprised. For example, see this page at Princeton. If you are making more than that, lucky you

I didn't check Princeton. Thanks! I thought most top schools would be like Harvard and MIT in term of aids. Princeton seems better!
: )

 

[Wes]

I am a retired science professor, and here is my advice:

In general, she should attend the very best, most difficult university she can get into. A LOT of the educational experience is from the atmosphere of being around smart, serious students. That is easier at a top school. It is extremely difficult to get a faculty position anywhere in many areas. She will find good faculty at even smaller, regional colleges. But the atmosphere will be different. A transfer is not the best strategy IMO. Start somewhere and spend 4 years there.

She should NOT try to stay close to home. This is the time in her life for exploration.

If MIT or similar schools admit her w/o financial aid, the very best bet is to go to a well regarded state school and get into the Honors College there. The faculty rarely enjoy teaching lower level courses (or any undergraduates) but an honors college will be an exception.

Do not neglect consideration of an xlnt. small college. She will not be exposed to the top researchers in any field, but many scientists started at such places and have done very well. They loved the experience. Reed College is one such place, but there are many.

Don't worry too much about STEM courses as she will be taking freshman level things for a while. She may not like them as much as she will like upper division or grad. school. I certainly didn't. In some areas (biology) a large number of facts and definitions need to be digested before making much headway. Math is at the opposite end of the spectrum.

She should find some faculty to talk to one on one in different areas. Faculty at research universities do NOT want to "waste time" on undergrads, but there are exceptions. She should look at faculty web sites, then go to their office (lab) but only during office hours - she should begin the conversation with "Hi, I'm in your xxx class or not in any of your classes" and I was interested in your research on _____." See if they'll chat with her for a few minutes. End with "Are there any jobs in your lab?" or even volunteer. This is easier in an elite univ. I was able to find a physics prof. to talk to late at night just by wandering around the dept. building. He was never during the day.

And this brings up a simple test on how to find a good science dept. Goon campus late at night on a Friday or Sat. If the lights are on and people are inside working, you have found a good dept.

She should "hang out" in the hallways near labs of people she is interested in - read the stuff posted on the walls and doors. Go to seminars that are posted.

This also applies to the liberal arts. She wants to find one or a few liberal arts profs. to talk to. A student is not educated until getting some familiarity with the liberal arts. For me, it was English Lit. and film studies.

If interested, I have all sorts of advice written up which I think is still on my computer, and I can send it to you.

 

[hardisj]

She is grade 11th.

Ahhh…

In the words of Dr. Ian Malcolm "well, there it is". I was thinking she was in 8th or 9th grade and was confounded by her needing to choose her college path. 11th grade makes more sense.


Well, in that case, disregard most of my previous comments. Other than the bit about why/when I decided what I wanted to do. I was already in college when I decided what I wanted to do. I wanted to be a Disney Imagineer. Didn't pan out (I had the opportunity, I chose not to take it). Though, I do sometimes wonder what I'd be doing now if I had taken the opportunity, I am very happy with the way things are for myself and my family now. We visit disney world a couple times a year and, besides, I can always go to Disney and work when I retire.

 

[tgray]

I didn't check Princeton. Thanks! I thought most top schools would be like Harvard and MIT in term of aids. Princeton seems better!
: )

A handful of schools do something similar. Here's one list (can't vouch for how updated it is): US News

That being said, it sounds like she will excel wherever she ends up. The Honors programs at some of the large state universities are really excellent too.

 

[Soundstage]

Move her to ETH at Zurich, Switzerland. Almost cost free and a Top 10 university worldwide.

 

[BlackTalon]

Job nr. 1: find your passion!! It’s not just the years in uni. This choice will most likely influence the rest of your life. You better make the best possible choice!

It's pretty hard to know that when you are only in your teens and may not have been exposed to a lot of different things yet. My view on it these days is pick a major in something that interests you, and ideally will provide you with a good living when you graduate. You can change careers later on, switch to a more fulfilling job that doesn't pay as well, etc. Its a lot harder to switch into something more technical/ demanding later in life; much easier to downshift instead.

There are also some other factors at play. Some types of jobs dry up over time. Most of the mechanical engineers I know migrated over to computer-related jobs over the years as opportunism for mechanical engineers (with the exception of those in building design) diminished. This is especially true for those who focused in the automotive section. Another example is environmental engineer; it was billed as the next great career. Large amounts of Civil students focused on environmental. And the market got oversaturated. Many who had dreams/ goals of helping to change/ improve the world found it hard to get jobs and had to move into other types of jobs that they were not very well qualified for.

After 30+ years of being an engineer I can't say this would be for everyone to do for a lifelong career. But it enables my family to live a good life, and 5+ years ago my wife was able to leave the corporate world and switch to a low-paying job that is more fulfilling for her. We would not both be able to do this without selling everything and moving far from urban areas. I suck it up (and can, since I have the education. degree and experience) so she's able to do better things. It works, and I occasionally get to feel like I am saving the world at times as well

 

[Bob-23]

Above all, I'd find a university where 2+2=4 - which doesn't seem self-evident in American universities anymore, even in stem (and probably here in Europe soon, too, as we benefit from the export of American Ideology).

 

[Soundstage]

Move her to ETH at Zurich, Switzerland. Almost cost free and a Top 10 university worldwide.

Sorry stupid idea unless she speaks German. Only Master level degree are fully in English.

 

[Pdxwayne]

I am a retired science professor, and here is my advice:

In general, she should attend the very best, most difficult university she can get into. A LOT of the educational experience is from the atmosphere of being around smart, serious students. That is easier at a top school. It is extremely difficult to get a faculty position anywhere in many areas. She will find good faculty at even smaller, regional colleges. But the atmosphere will be different. A transfer is not the best strategy IMO. Start somewhere and spend 4 years there.

She should NOT try to stay close to home. This is the time in her life for exploration.

If MIT or similar schools admit her w/o financial aid, the very best bet is to go to a well regarded state school and get into the Honors College there. The faculty rarely enjoy teaching lower level courses (or any undergraduates) but an honors college will be an exception.

Do not neglect consideration of an xlnt. small college. She will not be exposed to the top researchers in any field, but many scientists started at such places and have done very well. They loved the experience. Reed College is one such place, but there are many.

Don't worry too much about STEM courses as she will be taking freshman level things for a while. She may not like them as much as she will like upper division or grad. school. I certainly didn't. In some areas (biology) a large number of facts and definitions need to be digested before making much headway. Math is at the opposite end of the spectrum.

She should find some faculty to talk to one on one in different areas. Faculty at research universities do NOT want to "waste time" on undergrads, but there are exceptions. She should look at faculty web sites, then go to their office (lab) but only during office hours - she should begin the conversation with "Hi, I'm in your xxx class or not in any of your classes" and I was interested in your research on _____." See if they'll chat with her for a few minutes. End with "Are there any jobs in your lab?" or even volunteer. This is easier in an elite univ. I was able to find a physics prof. to talk to late at night just by wandering around the dept. building. He was never during the day.

And this brings up a simple test on how to find a good science dept. Goon campus late at night on a Friday or Sat. If the lights are on and people are inside working, you have found a good dept.

She should "hang out" in the hallways near labs of people she is interested in - read the stuff posted on the walls and doors. Go to seminars that are posted.

This also applies to the liberal arts. She wants to find one or a few liberal arts profs. to talk to. A student is not educated until getting some familiarity with the liberal arts. For me, it was English Lit. and film studies.

If interested, I have all sorts of advice written up which I think is still on my computer, and I can send it to you.

Thanks for the detail advices! I will pass on all the points to her. Honors program is a great tip!

We discussed the pros and cons of missing out on top school just because she doesn't know her passion yet.

Cost is a big deciding factor too....It is likely that money spent for 1 year in MIT (then she decide she hates it and quit) will be enough for her to complete a 4 years degree in a good in-state university....

 

[Pdxwayne]

Sorry stupid idea unless she speaks German. Only Master level degree are fully in English.

Haha, I just asked her if she wants to study internationally and I got a firm "NO".

 

[voodooless]

Sorry stupid idea unless she speaks German. Only Master level degree are fully in English.

Come to the Netherlands, there will be no issue with language

 

[GeorgeBynum]

If you graduated from STEM major, did you know you want to study STEM while in high school?

Straight to the punchline, in 5th grade, elementary school, I wrote my "what do you want to be" class assignment that I wanted to get an EE degree from North Carolina State College. In 1972, I did. Never a PE, never a high earner, but satisfied. To this day, consider myself as the ultimate technical generalist.

 

[Pdxwayne]

A handful of schools do something similar. Here's one list (can't vouch for how updated it is): US News

That being said, it sounds like she will excel wherever she ends up. The Honors programs at some of the large state universities are really excellent too.

Thanks!

 

[Pdxwayne]

It's pretty hard to know that when you are only in your teens and may not have been exposed to a lot of different things yet. My view on it these days is pick a major in something that interests you, and ideally will provide you with a good living when you graduate. You can change careers later on, switch to a more fulfilling job that doesn't pay as well, etc. Its a lot harder to switch into something more technical/ demanding later in life; much easier to downshift instead.

There are also some other factors at play. Some types of jobs dry up over time. Most of the mechanical engineers I know migrated over to computer-related jobs over the years as opportunism for mechanical engineers (with the exception of those in building design) diminished. This is especially true for those who focused in the automotive section. Another example is environmental engineer; it was billed as the next great career. Large amounts of Civil students focused on environmental. And the market got oversaturated. Many who had dreams/ goals of helping to change/ improve the world found it hard to get jobs and had to move into other types of jobs that they were not very well qualified for.

After 30+ years of being an engineer I can't say this would be for everyone to do for a lifelong career. But it enables my family to live a good life, and 5+ years ago my wife was able to leave the corporate world and switch to a low-paying job that is more fulfilling for her. We would not both be able to do this without selling everything and moving far from urban areas. I suck it up (and can, since I have the education. degree and experience) so she's able to do better things. It works, and I occasionally get to feel like I am saving the world at times as well

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Raindog123]

There are plenty of disciplines that have/require STEM as a core, but are not STEM by themselves, eg:

Computer games production - is heavily based on technologies, yet allows to stay in the artsy domain (and vice versa);
Movie making (directing, producing) - as CGA is the core of anything today;
Lawyers - a big direction is patent lawyers and technology counseling - both requiring deep STEM background;
In tech industries, a STEM degree - with some management/business addition - easily opens the business career path;
STEM actually allows to jump from research/science to [engineering/technology] industry any time, and (usually later in the career) the other way too - eg to become a university research center director coming from being established in industry;

 

[Pdxwayne]

There are plenty of disciplines that have/require STEM as a core, but are not STEM by themselves, eg:

Computer games production - is heavily based on technologies, yet allows to stay in the artsy domain (and vice versa);
Movie making (directing, producing) - as CGA is the core of anything today;
Lawyers - a big direction is patent lawyers and technology counseling - both requiring deep STEM background;
In tech industries, a STEM degree - with some management/business addition - easily opens the business career path;
STEM actually allows to jump from research/science to [engineering/technology] industry any time, and (usually later in the career) the other way too - eg to become eg a university research center director coming from being established in industry;

Thanks! Lots of choices....