WiiM Mini Review (Streamer)

[staticV3]

When it's outputting via optical or coaxial, volume adjustments will be made at the destination, in my case the SU-1

That can't be right.

Optical or coaxial don't support sending volume commands to the receiving DAC.

When outputting via optical or coaxial, it's still the WiiM that applies digital volume attenuation to the signal, before it is sent out to your DAC.

 

[hkrooner]

Thought so, but this is what the guys are saying.

 

[staticV3]

Thought so, but this is what the guys are saying.View attachment 357778

You're misinterpreting.

The signal not going through the WiiM's internal DAC does not mean that volume control is handled by the external DAC.

When using optical or coax out, it's the WiiM's internal DSP that handles volume control.

Though of course you can set the WiiM to fixed volume and use your external DAC for volume control instead, if it has that function.

That being said, the SU-1 has no volume control capabilities with optical/coax in, so using the WiiM's is the only option.

 

[hkrooner]

You're misinterpreting.

The signal not going through the WiiM's internal DAC does not mean that volume control is handled by the external DAC.

When using optical or coax out, it's the WiiM's internal DSP that handles volume control.

Though of course you can set the WiiM to fixed volume and use your external DAC for volume control instead, if it has that function.

That being said, the SU-1 has no volume control capabilities with optical/coax in, so using the WiiM's is the only option.

Thank you, @staticV3. Suspected so. But then how can the Mini do DSP without using the internal DAC?

 

[staticV3]

Thank you, @staticV3. Suspected so. But then how can the Mini do DSP without using the internal DAC?

I believe DSP on the WiiM Mini is handled by an Allwinner R328 SoC.

The Mini's DAC just handles conversion to analog, not volume or EQ.

 

[hkrooner]

Amazing, @staticV3 Thank you so very much for unearthing this! Would be wonderful if reviews/measurements could take it into account, which I would assume for many should be a more important contrast with the Pro Plus than the DAC chip. And the Mini is a device with volume control, after all. Not everyone will be running it bit-perfect.

Anyway: problem solved! Thank you so much. Ol Switcher is now duly relegated to fine-tuning and switching to headphone output. It's a fine device, though!

 

[muad]

Anyone know if they're planning on implementing volume normalization for Spotify connect?

 

[antcollinet]

According to the thread, volume control in the WiiM Mini is only done internally by the Mini's own DAC when the unit is outputting via its aux out socket. When it's outputting via optical or coaxial, volume adjustments will be made at the destination, in my case the SU-1. That'd be fascinating to me, and make my original question a moot one.

That is not possible via optical or coax. There is no volume control information in an SPDIF stream. It can be done that way with USB, but not SPDIF

So if the volume changes it is done digitally before sending the digital data via optical/coax to your DAC.


EDIT : Ninjad by @staticV3

 

[antcollinet]

I think you should actually ... may give you a new insight and possibly even better informed?

I'm not going to wade through four pages of quite possibly poorly informed specuation. Unlss you are aware of somethign different and specific (other than what I gleaned in the first few posts) that explains why a digital volume control doesn't work properly after EQ. If you are, then I'm sure you can link the actual post concerned.

 

[Witterings]

I'm not going to wade through four pages of quite possibly poorly informed specuation. Unlss you are aware of somethign different and specific (other than what I gleaned in the first few posts) that explains why a digital volume control doesn't work properly after EQ. If you are, then I'm sure you can link the actual post concerned.

I've read it all a week or so ago but I'm not going wade through it all a 2nd time for someone else's convenience ... up to you whether you choose to or not.

 

[Philipp]

SU-1

Has no volume control, has it?

 

[antcollinet]

I've read it all a week or so ago but I'm not going wade through it all a 2nd time for someone else's convenience ... up to you whether you choose to or not.

I'll take that as a "no" then (to being aware of something different).

 

[Witterings]

I'll take that as a "no" then (to being aware of something different).

That is absolutely and definitively NOT what I said!

Just because you can't be bothered to read it yourself, don't twist other people;s words.

 

[Gambertuni]

I'm having a technical issue with the Wiim Mini, maybe someone has had the same problem.

I have connected it to an Atom DAC 2 via optical. Whilst using Qobuzz (embedded in the Wiim App) those songs on 24 bit /192 khz are not audible. Then I tried the test provided on the settings (the wiim plays a song on certain parameters that you specify and, if you can hear it, that means that it is working and the signal is coming through) However, it does not make a sound on 24/192, only then I choose 24/96.

Theoretically, Atom DAC 2 can read a 24 bit / 192 Khz signal.
Aso theoretically, Wiim Mini should be able to send this signal bit-perfect through its optical output.

I have requested and received new devices of both, and the problem is still there (by the way, great customer service on JDS Labs)

Maybe someone has encountered a similar issue?

 

[antcollinet]

That is absolutely and definitively NOT what I said!

Just because you can't be bothered to read it yourself, don't twist other people;s words.

Well. you studiously avoided answering that part of my question.

 

[hkrooner]

Has no volume control, has it?

No, you are correct -- and thus why I still need to use passive attenuation by my JDS Labs Ol Switcher, since my active speakers (the Zeppelin Wireless) only have a 3.5mm input with sensitivity rated at 1Vrms.

Regardless of DSP attenuation by the WiiM Mini, I trust the SU-1 is still outputting at its fixed 2Vrms.

My original doubt, stemming from a perhaps not so aptly written thread at a WiiM forum (see link above), was whether the WiiM Mini could actually be 'signalling' to the SU-1 the need to reduce volume output, and this was then being done by the SU-1 itself.

But @staticV3 and @antcollinet have masterfully clarified this cannot be the case. What I thus need to do is try to find the sweet spot between not reducing digital signal too much and reducing output voltage just about enough not to have clipping at the Zeppelin Wireless.

In short: I should perhaps have gone for the WiiM Pro Plus!

 

[staticV3]

In short: I should perhaps have gone for the WiiM Pro Plus!

That wouldn't have fixed anything though.

With regards to volume and voltage control, there's nothing that the WiiM Pro Plus is capable of, that you cannot also achieve with the Mini + SU-1.

If you want to limit your SU-1's output voltage to 1V so that you don't clip your Zepp's input, simply set your Mini's Volume Limit to the value that corresponds with -6dB (can be measured with a basic multimeter).

 

[hkrooner]

If you want to limit your SU-1's output voltage to 1V so that you don't clip your Zepp's input, simply set your Mini's Volume Limit to the value that corresponds with -6dB (can be measured with a basic multimeter).

That's just what I've been doing now (limitting the Mini's Volume Limit, in fact, to up to 50%). Without the pot, however, I still have clipping. Are you sure the SU-1 has a variable output?

EDIT: in other words, isn't the Mini just digitally reducing the dynamic range--thus introducing noise--while voltage being output by the SU-1 remains constant?

 

[antcollinet]

That's just what I've been doing now (limitting the Mini's Volume Limit, in fact, to up to 50%). Without the pot, however, I still have clipping. Are you sure the SU-1 has a variable output?

EDIT: in other words, isn't the Mini just digitally reducing the dynamic range--thus introducing noise--while voltage being output by the SU-1 remains constant?

No, if you reduce the volume, you reduce the voltage out of the DAC.

This doesn't introduce noise - the noise stays at the same level, but the signal is reduced so SNR is worse. However, if you can't hear the noise when the volume is on full (but the music is quiet - eg between tracks), then you also can't hear it when the volume is reduced.

How do you know you are getting clipping?

 

[Witterings]

Well. you studiously avoided answering that part of my question.

Whatever ...