VB Matrix

[dualazmak]

I’m very impressed with this software. Bravo to VB-Audio! If anyone wants to do what I’m doing grab one of these:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1351699-REG/rdl_sf_dn4_digital_audio_to_network.html

And use it for the Matrix input source and clock master. Then use Element and insert it into the middle to run VST3 plugins of your choice:

Element

Kushview pro audio development and software. Home of Element plugin host.

kushview.net

Even some USB or Thunderbolt DAC’s will allow you to clock sync to the Matrix master. But even if using this setup with an async USB DAC, using the Dante device as the clock master will provide a much more stable clock than the computer clock. And it will be in sync with the source. I’m using a Bluesound Node as a HDMI eARC to SPDIF bridge with volume control. The Node connects to the eARC port of my TV, then the out from the Node SPDIF to the RDL.

Thank you for sharing your nice audio-visual sync setup which would be very impressive reference for many people visiting this thread on VB-Audio Matrix started by @bxerfan88.

Just for your info, I now use OKTO DAC8PRO 8-Ch DAC unit having one ES9028PRO 8-Ch DAC chip, and all the 8-Ch DAC processing by DAC8PRO are internally fully in-sync.

At least in my case, when I occasionally enjoy TV music programs, I use my 55-inch Panasonic 4K OLED TV as my second PC screen monitor (HDMI connection) for visual only (please refer here for the details) fed by software TV tuner in my same audio dedicated Windows 11 Pro PC which can receive all the available TV channels, including 4K channels, through my high-speed optical internet connection (we call it "optical TV"). All the audio signals are still processed in simple ASIO routing with VB-Audio Matrix I/O to/from the DSP EKIO (8-CH XO/EQ/Delay) into OKTO DAC8PRO. In this setup, I have no "out of lipsync" issue at all.

If you would be interested in my the latest total audio (and TV visual) setup, please visit my post here on my multichannel audio project thread.

 

[boxerfan88]

I've been testing the 3 stack combination for my dual DAC configuration, and I haven't been able to detect/hear any audio differences.

• ASIO + WDM
• WDM + WDM
• ASIO + ASIO

Anyone tried the different stack combination?

Were you able to hear/detect any audio differences?

 

[kchap]

The only VB I know. Corney and parochial to the point of embarrassment, just how I like it:

 

[dualazmak]

VB Matrix is so far amazingly nice and robust!

Now, I am testing VAIO4 (Matrix VAIO 4, 8-CH In + 8-CH Out) which can be selected as Windows default playback audio device by "Control Panel - Sound - VBMatrix In 4" for stereo 2-CH use, and redirect the INPUT: Matrix VAIO 4 CH1 to OUTPUT: Virtual ASIO 64 CH1 as well as INPUT: Matrix VAIO 4 CH2 to OUTPUT: Virtual ASIO 64 CH2.

In this routing, my system-wide independent DSP Center "EKIO" can receive all the stereo L&R audio signals from any of the software (such as web browsers, etc.) feeding to Windows default audio device (in this case VBMatrix In 4) for multichannel (8-CH in my setup) XO/EQ/Delay processing and feeds the DSP-ed 8-CH into my OKTO DAC8PRO for DAC processes to send 8-CH analog outputs into four stereo amplifiers as well as into L&R active subwoofers;

Please note that I carefully set -16 dB for VB Matrix VIO4 routing for exact level-matching with my usual JRiver MC's stereo signal into VB Virtual ASIO 64's CH1+CH2.

The I/O and DSP parameters in DSP EKIO remain completely unchanged;

In the above routing, EKIO can work as system-wide independent DSP Center; for my daily HiFi music listening session using JRiver MC as well as for listening to e.g. YouTube video clip by web browsers (without launching JRiver, I mainly use Google Chrome).

Here, VB Matrix can work as an audio mixer/selector for JRiver MC (feeding to VASIO64A) and Windows default stereo audio (feeding to VB Matrix VAIO 4); I usually have no need of "mixing" these two, but on-the-fly selection of either of the two players would be very nice and convenient for occasional comparative listening between Youtube clip (using web browser) and JRiver MC local music library track by pressing "pause" button in either of the audio players.

Of course, just same as @boxerfan88 shared in his above post #45, the sound quality of VB Matrix VAIO4 (as Windows default audio device) is just excellent and no difference at all compared to ASIO and WDM routing. From now on, I will never use, therefore, Motherboard's Realtek High Definition Audio of much much inferior sound quality.

Even though the above diagrams in this post indicate/share the 88.2 kHz operation (JRiver MC's outputs and EKIO's configuration are also set in 88.2 kHz), VB Audio in above I/O routing works completely fine in 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 96 kHz, 172.6 kHz and 192 kHz.

 

[dualazmak]

Today I am just enjoying, during my remote desk work, this nice relaxing Youtube clip (a little bit of too much velvet/soft sound, though) played by Google Chrome through above VB Matrix I/O configurations feeding into my DSP Center EKIO where I can control XO/EQ/Delay/Relative-Gain(Tone-Control) on-the-fly (all in 96 kHz processing); really wonderful and excellent sound quality! (With my coffee cup on the desk, of course.)

Edit:
As for the Relative-Gain(Tone-Control) on-the-fly, I can do it very easily also by my four HiFi integrated amplifiers dedicatedly directly driving the SP drivers (ref. here).

 

[restorer-john]

VB:

 

[dualazmak]

Have you experienced any dropouts at all?

So far I have never experienced dropout with my so far tested VB Matrix I/O configurations in my rather outdated completely silent Windows 11 PCs running JRiver MC and Google Chrome either/both of them feeding into DSP EKIO.

Have you measured total system latency?

Not yet, since I have little interest on total latency (ref. here) as I use one 8-CH multichannel DAC unit "OKTO DAC8PRO" wherein all the 8-CH are fully in-sync internally.

Spoiler

I wrote here;
You well know that, throughout this project thread, I have been using digital music players, such as JRiver, in PC, and feeding the digital signal in digital XO/EQ "EKIO" for crossover, and then sending the divided digital signals into DAC8PRO for multi-channel multi-driver multi-amplifier stereo music listening.

In the digital signal processing, we have so many buffers or latencies; JRiver output buffer, ASIO4ALL's I/O buffers, EKIO's processing buffer, DIYINHK USB ASIO driver's buffer, and so on. Consequently, it is not straightforward to exactly measure the "absolute delay" between the JRiver's "shout" and the final air sound kick-up by SP.

I usually set all the buffers in the digital domain in rather large size, so that I should not have any latency or delay problems; in our audio setup, we have no problem at all if all the bunch of the digital and analog signal (15Hz - 30 kHz) have identical amount of delay time from the signal origin at JRiver, and this is always the case in our digital (PC based) audio system.

The relative delay between the SP units, or "time alignment" in multiple SPs, however, is always one of the critical issues in audio system, especially the multichannel multi-driver multi-amplifier system, as you may agree.

I have been always take my attention and care on this issue, and in my very early posts #18 through #21, by using REW's wavelet analysis, I briefly checked that all of my SP units, super-tweeter (ST), Be-tweeter (TW), Be-squawker (SQ) and woofer (WO) have essentially no delay with each other, while my sub-woofer (SW) has 10 - 20 ms delay against the other SP units.

Now, I became really would like to establish my own simple, reliable and reproducible precision method for "time alignment" or "relative delay" measurement, and fine adjustment(s) if needed.

BTW, I experience no out-of-lipsync issue at all when I watch/listen to any of the Youtube video clips by Google Chrome and to my local video library by JRiver MC with VB Matrix audio routing.

 

[dualazmak]

VB:

Have you tested VB Matrix? Are you interested in VB Matrix?

 

[JG2020]

Any idea why Windows 11 Sound reporting 8 x VAIO Matrix available when only 4 in the app ?

 

[boxerfan88]

I just realized that the VAIO sample rate is locked to the master device clock, I cannot choose a differing sample rate.
Looks like my idea to consolidate HiFi cable into VB Matrix is not possible (used for routing Tidal playback into foobar).
Not really a big issue.

 

[dualazmak]

Any idea why Windows 11 Sound reporting 8 x VAIO Matrix available when only 4 in the app ?

View attachment 326407

Yes, I have the same question!

 

[boxerfan88]

There are 2 versions of VB Matrix.

I am speculating that the VB Matrix & VB Coconut software uses the same underlying driver that provides 8 VAIOs.

The VB Matrix we are using only supports 4 VAIO “slots”.

The VB Coconut supports 8 VAIOs.

 

[dualazmak]

There are 2 versions of VB Matrix.

I am speculating that the VB Matrix & VB Coconut software uses the same underlying driver that provides 8 VAIOs.

The VB Matrix we are using only supports 4 VAIO “slots”.

The VB Coconut supports 8 VAIOs.

Understood.
The 4 VAIO slots of 2432-CH IN 2432-CH OUT of VB Matrix are just much more than enough at least for my audio setup!

 

[dualazmak]

Under the VB Matrix routing configuration shared in my above post #48, I am just intentionally testing 4 (four) simultaneous audio-visual playbacks into DSP EKIO, all the sounds in 96 kHz, in my multichannel multi-amplifier fully active audio setup (ref. here) with visual playback screens on my PC monitor;

1. PC's software TV-tuner live HD program now showing on-going football game, World Cup Asian Qualifier Game Japan vs. Myanmar (now Japan is leading 5-0): feeding 2-CH stereo audio into VB Matrix VAIO 4

2. Google Chrome playing one Youtube HD orchestral video clip: feeding 2-CH stereo audio into VB Matrix VAIO 4

3. Another Google Chrome playing one Youtube HD jazz trio video clip: feeding 2-CH stereo audio into VB Matrix VAIO 4

4. JRiver MC 31 playing tracks of my audio sampler/reference playlist (ref. here and here): feeding 2-CH stereo audio into VB Matrix VASIO64A

Again, I can confirm that VB Matrix is really stable and robust even for these 4 (four) simultaneous audio-visual playbacks; no audio bit dropout at all, and no out-of-lipsync issue at all.

I can mix all of the 4 (four) stereo channels or I can select any one of the 4 (four) stereo audio by using the "pause" button on each of the four audio-visual playback screens.

 

[boxerfan88]

Dear all,

Just to share a corner case -- I discovered this scenario by accident, when I was transferring something big across the network, and my playback stuttered a few times, then went back to normal.

After some testing, I managed to reproduce the instability with heavy network traffic, and I also found a workaround.


Test scenario:

• VB Matrix running normally, routing audio.
• Use any browser, run fast.com bandwidth test, or download a large file.
  • This will cause a lot of network traffic ISR to the CPU, disturbing VBMatrix operation.
  • Intermittently, VB Matrix may hiccup and drop packets.
  • On one occasion I managed to hang up VB Matrix (need to restart VB Matrix engine to recover)
• Tell tale sign is when DSP% jumps really high (mine shot up into ~70% range, and ever hit >300% at one point)
  • 

Workaround:

• I set the VBAudioMatrix_x64.exe process CPU affinity to the last 2CPUs.
  • 
    
  • 
• After doing so, VB Matrix remained stable even with high network traffic.
  • Seems like those last few CPUs are seldom used to process interrupts (ISR)
• I used a AutoHotkey script to launch VB Matrix and set CPU affinity.

ps: I know I know ... for audio playback ... we ought to use dedicated PC/laptop for audio playback ... not share workload with general purpose home PC ...

 

[dualazmak]

ps: I know I know ... for audio playback ... we ought to use dedicated PC/laptop for audio playback ... not share workload with general purpose home PC ...

I fully agree with you!

In my living/listening room, I use either of the two completely silent audio(-visual) dedicated rather outdated Windows 11 Pro PCs (ref. here) for my daily music listening sessions.

BTW, just for your reference, I have already installed OpenHardwareMonitor (OHM) in all of my PCs and PC-Workstations; the desktop gadget OHM is nice having opacity control (ref. here);

In my office upstairs, however, I also enjoy music during my rather heavy-duty deskwork using two Xeon-CPU workstation PCs having dual 27" 2560 x 1440 EIZO FlexScan EV2750 (so 5120 x 1440 pixel desktop), and I confirmed that VB Matrix + JRiver MC 31 + DSP EKIO audio(-visual) processing is really stable and robust, thanks to the Xeon CPUs, up to 192 kHz, even simultaneously together doing heavy-duty internet/intranet(LAN) and on-CPU on-memory deskwork including heavy/large medical imaging manipulations.

In this case, on my second PC monitor screen (2560 x 1440), now I like to give enough desktop area for my preferred audio(-visual) player JRiver MC 31 having EKIO's output panels underneath and VB Audio Matrix's Routing Grid Input Panels left side; as shown below, the Workstation PC also have a gadget "Samurize" monitoring CPU core/thread occupancies real-time (on-the-fly).

 

[billybuck]

Does anyone know if on a multi-use PC where I use both ASIO for a DAW and still need access to system sounds, Youtube playback, etc - is Matrix designed to be the primary connection point for all of that (with all devices except VAIO ports disabled in Windows sound setup), or should I just use it for ASIO and continue to allow windows to communicate directly with the interface?

I ask because it seems like once I had Matrix set up with ASIO, Windows complained that the device was in use. So I added a VAIO, thinking Matrix wants to be central hub for all audio, but I still have to disable/enable the VAIO port in Windows sound setup after every reboot for it to work.

Unfortunately the sparse docs for Matrix don't go into how they envision it being used in this type of a case.

On the plus side, I've had excellent results making a 6-channel virtual ASIO device with a Behringer UMC404 and a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2. No latency issues to speak of. I previously ran the UMC at 48khz with a 256 buffer. I do the same now with it and the Focusrite merged, and performance seems identical. And, I can use the Focusrite as the primary output, getting around the problem of the Behringer's pitifully low gain on the main and headphone outputs.

 

[boxerfan88]

The VB Matrix is just an audio router. Whatever device configured into the matrix will be taken over exclusively.

On my setup, i only configure into matrix only devices that i need for my digital crossover function. Everything else I keep them outside matrix, and let windows deal with it, as it always has.

I think there could be a use case to place all audio IO devices under matrix. The configuration & routing could get quite complex (and messy).

 

[billybuck]

The VB Matrix is just an audio router. Whatever device configured into the matrix will be taken over exclusively.

On my setup, i only configure into matrix only devices that i need for my digital crossover function. Everything else I keep them outside matrix, and let windows deal with it, as it always has.

I think there could be a use case to place all audio IO devices under matrix. The configuration & routing could get quite complex (and messy).

What about a case like my UMC404, where without Matrix I can make Out 1-2 the default Windows system device, but as soon as I've set a virtual ASIO with those ports in Matrix, they no longer accept audio from the Windows system?'

 

[dualazmak]

What about a case like my UMC404, where without Matrix I can make Out 1-2 the default Windows system device, but as soon as I've set a virtual ASIO with those ports in Matrix, they no longer accept audio from the Windows system?'

No, you can use both of VAIO (as Windows default audio output device) and VASIO routings "simultaneously" if you like to do so. Please carefully read and look at my such routing diagram shared in my above post #48.

In this case (since you would use Out 1-2 only), on Windows default output "properties" settings, you need to configure the audio device in 2-CH stereo and also make them full-range stereo so that avoiding loss of low-Fq bass sound.

And, please be careful enough that the default gain settings in VAIO routing is Windows maximum full gain (maximum sound volume level), and you usually need digital gain attenuation/suppression (in my case in #48, I carefully set -16 dB, as you know well some of the Youtube clips has very high audio gain!) for routing/redirect into VASIO routings for proper/suitable level matching with your VASIO audio device(s).

I believe this flexible digital gain attenuation in VAIO on VB Matrix's Routing Grid is really nice when I (we) use either of JRiver MC's YouTube window (which feeds stereo 2CH into VAIO as Windows default audio) and usual SSD music library play (which feeds stereo 2CH into VASIO).

In my case, both of VAIO(2CH) input and VASIO(2CH) input are then fed into system-wide DSP Center "EKIO" for multichannel DSP (XO/EQ/Delay/Relative-Gain) processing.