Topping L30 II Review (Headphone Amp)

[SmokedBurger]

is this correct?

 

[Miiksuli]

View attachment 339612
is this correct?

Yes. I'm at the work but can check later if I have more filters. You can check it with tone generator: https://onlinetonegenerator.com/frequency-sweep-generator.html . Use consistent frequency. Like 1-5 Hz. It should not going to protection anymore.

 

[SmokedBurger]

Yes. I'm at the work but can check later if I have more filters

thanks! really appreciate it

 

[tbob22]

It’d be great. I mean, you can definitely get something cheaper and it would sound just as good. It’s massively overpowered for the Sundara. But it’s a great piece of kit and I love mine. I’m using it for similarly easy to drive headphones so you won’t get any complaints from me.

I thought the Sundara's were bit more difficult to drive due to the lower sensitivity? I'm not super familiar with headphone loads so I usually think of speakers which in general would be more difficult to drive with a lower ohm load and lower sensitivity (think Magnepans at ~2ohm and 85db or so) - but I understand that 600ohm can be quite difficult to drive as well...

I do want to listen quite loud - I can't use my theater at loud volumes atm so I was just looking for some decent headphones with a fair soundstage and some bass extension (will EQ with Peace as well). I heard a buddies 6xx's and while they sounded pretty good the soundstage was really lacking.

 

[Miiksuli]

thanks! really appreciate it

1 Hz Low shelf filter -30 dB. Is my setting. Sorry for the delay, there was a power outage in Finland in my area.

 

[tbob22]

1 Hz Low shelf filter -30 dB. Is my setting. Sorry for the delay, there was a power outage in Finland in my area.

Any idea if that fix also works on other amps? I read the Schiit Magni Heretic also goes into protection and isn't suitable for explosions like in gaming, etc. That amp is $50 less atm and seems to have similar power.

 

[SmokedBurger]

1 Hz Low shelf filter -30 dB. Is my setting. Sorry for the delay, there was a power outage in Finland in my area.

didn't work at max volume, the only fix that did was a 20hz -30db low shelf (db as slope)

 

[shuppatsu]

I thought the Sundara's were bit more difficult to drive due to the lower sensitivity?

Amir measured Sundara's sensitivity as between the Sennheiser HD600 and HD650. That is, not super sensitive but not remotely exotic. Likewise, flat impedance at 40ohm doesn't present any challenges. I don't know much about electricity but to my knowledge low impedance is only a problem when you need lots of power. And 40ohm isn't particularly low.

Using Amir's numbers, the standard target of 110dB only takes 100mW. If you want 120dB for extra headroom you can do that with 1W. The L30 II does that with its eyes closed.

 

[tbob22]

Amir measured Sundara's sensitivity as between the Sennheiser HD600 and HD650. That is, not super sensitive but not remotely exotic. Likewise, flat impedance at 40ohm doesn't present any challenges. I don't know much about electricity but to my knowledge low impedance is only a problem when you need lots of power. And 40ohm isn't particularly low.

Using Amir's numbers, the standard target of 110dB only takes 100mW. If you want 120dB for extra headroom you can do that with 1W. The L30 II does that with its eyes closed.

I did end up snagging the Heretic as the price was right but I may also try the Magni+ and L30 II and keep whichever sounds best to me.

 

[shuppatsu]

I did end up snagging the Heretic as the price was right but I may also try the Magni+ and L30 II and keep whichever sounds best to me.

The heretic should sound exactly the same.

 

[IAtaman]

I thought the Sundara's were bit more difficult to drive due to the lower sensitivity? I'm not super familiar with headphone loads so I usually think of speakers which in general would be more difficult to drive with a lower ohm load and lower sensitivity (think Magnepans at ~2ohm and 85db or so) - but I understand that 600ohm can be quite difficult to drive as well...

I do want to listen quite loud - I can't use my theater at loud volumes atm so I was just looking for some decent headphones with a fair soundstage and some bass extension (will EQ with Peace as well). I heard a buddies 6xx's and while they sounded pretty good the soundstage was really lacking.

Sundara is not great for sound stage either. HD560S would be good option for sounding great and having a sound stage for less than $200.

 

[tbob22]

Sundara is not great for sound stage either. HD560S would be good option for sounding great and having a sound stage for less than $200.

Really? That's different from most reviews I've read. The Sundara is said to have a wider soundstage but maybe not quite as accurate. I'll find out tomorrow I guess. I really haven't heard many decent headphones so just going off of what I heard from the 6xx.

 

[IAtaman]

Really? That's different from most reviews I've read. The Sundara is said to have a wider soundstage but maybe not quite as accurate. I'll find out tomorrow I guess. I really haven't heard many decent headphones so just going off of what I heard from the 6xx.

Well maybe it is me. For soundstage, Sundara is very similar to HD6 series for me, but maybe your experience would be different. If you got a chance to try it yourself, that is the best way to review it.

 

[Miiksuli]

didn't work at max volume, the only fix that did was a 20hz -30db low shelf (db as slope)

It's a bummer! You can try to set different frequencies or multiple slopes for low frequencies. I don't use my amp for headphones directly. Only the pre-amp feature for the tube amp.

Any idea if that fix also works on other amps? I read the Schiit Magni Heretic also goes into protection and isn't suitable for explosions like in gaming, etc. That amp is $50 less atm and seems to have similar power.

You can test it urself I just bought Magni+ from Schiit EU. I was hoping it does not behave the same way.

 

[tbob22]

Well maybe it is me. For soundstage, Sundara is very similar to HD6 series for me, but maybe your experience would be different. If you got a chance to try it yourself, that is the best way to review it.

I got them all set up. I think you're right - the soundstage is not massively improved over the HD6xx but it's definitely a bit more open. After adjusting EQ I'm pretty happy with how things sound - I feel like the Sundaras go much lower especially after EQ. I feel like I'm missing a little detail compared to my fully REW/EQed Wharfedale 10.1's in my office but it's much closer to having speakers in the room compared to just about any headphone I've heard yet. I do have to run it on the high gain to get enough volume especially after EQ.

 

[PortalKeeper]

I'd say so.
We're really spoilt for choice though in that segment. There are so many great options.


Balanced output doesn't increase sound quality at all for headphones.

Hey I’m just curious about this topic. Does this hold true even if there is electromagnetic interference from the environment in which one is listening? Wouldn’t balanced output reject any noise picked up on the way from the amp to the headphones? Or is the signal large enough at that point so that this noise is negligible similar to a loudspeaker situation? Thanks

 

[staticV3]

Hey I’m just curious about this topic. Does this hold true even if there is electromagnetic interference from the environment in which one is listening? Wouldn’t balanced output reject any noise picked up on the way from the amp to the headphones? Or is the signal large enough at that point so that this noise is negligible similar to a loudspeaker situation? Thanks

Headphones have inherent differential input (they only care about the voltage difference between each driver's signal pins).

An impedance balanced output could very well help suppress common-mode noise.

However, even a Single-ended output can be impedance balanced.

So what I should've said is that differential output doesn't increase sound quality at all.
All it is good for is extracting the maximum output power with limited power supply voltage.

 

[solderdude]

Hey I’m just curious about this topic. Does this hold true even if there is electromagnetic interference from the environment in which one is listening? Wouldn’t balanced output reject any noise picked up on the way from the amp to the headphones? Or is the signal large enough at that point so that this noise is negligible similar to a loudspeaker situation? Thanks

When a balanced amp receives RF from its output that RF is always opposite signal ground.
Signal ground is internal in the amp (its enclosure usually).
In BTL amps (only transformer out would be really balanced) the BTL still has 2 amps (per channel) which both receive RF.
As that RF gets detected and may not be the same in both 'sides' it will be hard to predict what will happen.
when you live nearby a powerful radio tower that might be a problem. It should not be an issue with 'normal' RF (BT, wireless etc) for most devices.
Some are more susceptive for RF than others and also depends on ground paths anyway... such is the problem with RFI.

 

[PortalKeeper]

Headphones have inherent differential input (they only care about the voltage difference between each driver's signal pins).

An impedance balanced output could very well help suppress common-mode noise.

However, even a Single-ended output can be impedance balanced.

So what I should've said is that differential output doesn't increase sound quality at all.
All it is good for is extracting the maximum output power with limited power supply voltage.

I’m still a bit confused, I thought a differential output is a balanced output with a positive signal on one wire and that signal’s inverse on the other wire. What does impedance balanced mean?

 

[staticV3]

I’m still a bit confused, I thought a differential output is a balanced output with a positive signal on one wire and that signal’s inverse on the other wire. What does impedance balanced mean?

Balanced and Differential are separate attributes of analog audio transmission. You can have one without the other.

There's a fantastic article written by the the audio legend and Purifi designer Bruno Putzeys, where he goes over all of this. Please read it if you have the chance:

https://www.diyaudio.com/archive/blogs/alexcp/attachments/1926d1460406090-bruno-putzeys-micropre-g-word.pdf