The Case Against OLED

[pablolie]

HDR.
First came Hi-def (1080p), then came 4K (2160p). So far the resolution got better and better.
Then came HDR and Dolby Vision. With these advents, the contrast ratio was enhanced.
In short, to display HDR, one needs a display with extraordinary contrast ratio, hence max. brightness.
Only the brightest Oleds may be up to the task.
Barely!

Seems HDR is merely a setting you can enable and check if you like it any better. To me it's an acquired taste, but since it expands the potential capabilities, hey, might as well.

I am also often a sceptic of the more is more premise. HD is great, 4k looks barely distinguishable better on 55inch monitors from a normal viewing distance.

As always, there is a vested interested in driving upgrade cycles via the spec wars.

 

[Tim Link]

Seems HDR is merely a setting you can enable and check if you like it any better. To me it's an acquired taste, but since it expands the potential capabilities, hey, might as well.

I am also often a sceptic of the more is more premise. HD is great, 4k looks barely distinguishable better on 55inch monitors from a normal viewing distance.

As always, there is a vested interested in driving upgrade cycles via the spec wars.

On my TV I don't have a choice. If the content is HDR the tv shows it as HDR. If it's SDR I see it in SDR. I sit close enough to my 75" TV that 4k makes a very nice improvement. I use my tv as a computer monitor as well and 4K also makes the text really crisp. I think 4K is good enough for me. I've seen 8k and had a hard time telling the difference unless I got right up on the display, and the content was really crisp 8k. That could be good if you want a highly enveloping experience, like sitting up front in a movie theater.

 

[Tim Link]

And Samsung's QD-OLED which is supposed to fix the brightness of the OLED efficiently, using Quantum Dot technology.
This could really be a game changer.

What is QD-OLED? The hybrid TV tech fully explained | Digital Trends

Look out, OLED and QLED. There's a new TV player in town and it's not messing around. Meet QD-OLED, the next big thing in TV tech.

www.digitaltrends.com

I'm sure we're going to see some impressive improvements in the coming years. There are also some experiments with stacking transparent OLED on top of each other to reduce burn in risk and increase brightness a the same time. All kinds of ideas are being experimented with.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

I'm sure we're going to see some impressive improvements in the coming years. There are also some experiments with stacking transparent OLED on top of each other to reduce burn in risk and increase brightness a the same time. All kinds of ideas are being experimented with.

As the screens get larger and larger, I hope they also address power efficiency attributes too.
OLEDs as they are now, can't handle high power outputs well. They get burn-in problems, complete failures and so on.
The reason I mentioned the QD, is that it is an efficient technology. One of the tests rTings does on some TVs, is to measure max light output after 6 months or so, of regular use.
It is an indication of how the panel ages. I have had LCDs that were pretty bright when new, but after a couple of years, the picture was washed out.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Seems HDR is merely a setting you can enable and check if you like it any better. To me it's an acquired taste, but since it expands the potential capabilities, hey, might as well.

As Tim Link has correctly pointed out, HDR is a capability, but not an end user option.
A HDR capability is also, almost useless if the said panel does not have the brightness and colour depth to go with it.
A HDR footage triggers the TV/Monitor into HDR mode automatically.
Not all HDR materials are the same. Some are no better than standard SDR. Just as not all HDR TVs are the same.
In defence of OLEDs, I must point out the one attribute that makes them ideal at one end of the HDR spectrum, the blacks! OK a lot of them don't have super brightness, but when it gets to "blacks", they are untouchable.
Imagine a dark scene with a bright light bulb in one corner of the screen. With standard LCD screens, the light from the bright bulb would leak out to the surrounding area, creating a halo or haze. But on an OLED, there is no such thing! the bulb stays put, with sharp edges, no leaks.
OLEDs have other benefits too, such as wide viewing angles.

 

[Krusty09]

As Tim Link has correctly pointed out, HDR is a capability, but not an end user option.
A HDR capability is also, almost useless if the said panel does not have the brightness and colour depth to go with it.
A HDR footage triggers the TV/Monitor into HDR mode automatically.
Not all HDR materials are the same. Some are no better than standard SDR. Just as not all HDR TVs are the same.
In defence of OLEDs, I must point out the one attribute that makes them ideal at one end of the HDR spectrum, the blacks! OK a lot of them don't have super brightness, but when it gets to "blacks", they are untouchable.
Imagine a dark scene with a bright light bulb in one corner of the screen. With standard LCD screens, the light from the bright bulb would leak out to the surrounding area, creating a halo or haze. But on an OLED, there is no such thing! the bulb stays put, with sharp edges, no leaks.
OLEDs have other benefits too, such as wide viewing angles.

Hello.

"A HDR footage triggers the TV/Monitor into HDR mode automatically."

This is not true of professional monitors like Sony oleds. You must do manual input select and manual setup of each input and then save as a preset and then select the input. Newer consumer tvs might do this now but didn't do a few years ago for the most part .

 

[DLS79]

I am also often a sceptic of the more is more premise. HD is great, 4k looks barely distinguishable better on 55inch monitors from a normal viewing distance.

That's because viewing distance, and an individuals eye sight also play a huge part.

TV Monitor Viewing Distance Calculator

Viewing Distance Calculation Screen Size Resolution (W) Resolution (H) Update Data Display details: Screen Diagonal: inches Screen Resolution: Screen Width: Screen Height: Aspect Ratio: Dot Pitch: PPI: Minimum distance Maximum distance Visual Acuity distance

stari.co

 

[pablolie]

On my TV I don't have a choice. If the content is HDR the tv shows it as HDR. If it's SDR I see it in SDR. I sit close enough to my 75" TV that 4k makes a very nice improvement. I use my tv as a computer monitor as well and 4K also makes the text really crisp. I think 4K is good enough for me. I've seen 8k and had a hard time telling the difference unless I got right up on the display, and the content was really crisp 8k. That could be good if you want a highly enveloping experience, like sitting up front in a movie theater.

On my monitor tight now, an LG 32-inch $800-ish monitor, HDR is a setting you can enable or not. The key to the HDR experience is whether the *content" is HDR. In which case, the monitor/TV has the ability to support the higher dynamic range, as implied in the name. So it's a logical AND of content and monitor capabilities. And I assume your TV has the ability to set up image options like saturation, brightness and contrast independent of HDR, doesn't it?

 

[Ken Tajalli]

On my monitor tight now, an LG 32-inch $800-ish monitor, HDR is a setting you can enable or not. The key to the HDR experience is whether the *content" is HDR. In which case, the monitor/TV has the ability to support the higher dynamic range, as implied in the name. So it's a logical AND of content and monitor capabilities. And I assume your TV has the ability to set up image options like saturation, brightness and contrast independent of HDR, doesn't it?

On most TVs, the switchover is automatic, though one can over ride it, to treat all as SDR or all as HDR! but that would be wrong.
For HDR, it should be high contrast settings, and colour depth should be on auto.
But then again one can over ride anything.
For SDR, colour is mostly BT709. For HDR it is BT2020 or BT2084 or something like those.
They should be on Auto.

 

[Tim Link]

On my monitor tight now, an LG 32-inch $800-ish monitor, HDR is a setting you can enable or not. The key to the HDR experience is whether the *content" is HDR. In which case, the monitor/TV has the ability to support the higher dynamic range, as implied in the name. So it's a logical AND of content and monitor capabilities. And I assume your TV has the ability to set up image options like saturation, brightness and contrast independent of HDR, doesn't it?

Yes it does. I have a number of settings available for each input. Interestingly, the settings are independent for HDR and SDR settings. So if I put my TV in Filmmaker mode during HDR content on a given input, it might still be in standard mode for SDR content. The only way to get it in to Filmmaker mode for standard content on that input is to set it that way while standard content is playing. It seems kind of odd but I haven't found anyway to make those settings otherwise. I can get HDR content to play as SDR by using my computer as the source, and then setting the computer to SDR output mode. That automatically causes the TV to match it. The thing is, the sources I view also change their content. I can see that on Youtube. The quality will say "HDR" on their control bar if my computer is set to HDR mode. If my computer is set to SDR, then YouTube will feed me the SDR version of the same content.
There are ways I can force SDR content to use up the entire dynamic range and brightness capability of the TV, so in a sense I can force SDR content into HDR mode. It results in very noticeable color banding, as would be expected.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Yes it does. I have a number of settings available for each input. Interestingly, the settings are independent for HDR and SDR settings. So if I put my TV in Filmmaker mode during HDR content on a given input, it might still be in standard mode for SDR content. The only way to get it in to Filmmaker mode for standard content on that input is to set it that way while standard content is playing. It seems kind of odd but I haven't found anyway to make those settings otherwise. I can get HDR content to play as SDR by using my computer as the source, and then setting the computer to SDR output mode. That automatically causes the TV to match it. The thing is, the sources I view also change their content. I can see that on Youtube. The quality will say "HDR" on their control bar if my computer is set to HDR mode. If my computer is set to SDR, then YouTube will feed me the SDR version of the same content.
There are ways I can force SDR content to use up the entire dynamic range and brightness capability of the TV, so in a sense I can force SDR content into HDR mode. It results in very noticeable color banding, as would be expected.

YouTube, like some bluerays, Netflix ...... can and do multicast.
If they see a HDR capable panel, they send the HDR content, otherwise, they send SDR version of it.
If bandwidth drops, streaming services can even output anything down to DVD quality!

 

[pablolie]

Yes it does. I have a number of settings available for each input. Interestingly, the settings are independent for HDR and SDR settings. So if I put my TV in Filmmaker mode during HDR content on a given input, it might still be in standard mode for SDR content. The only way to get it in to Filmmaker mode for standard content on that input is to set it that way while standard content is playing. It seems kind of odd but I haven't found anyway to make those settings otherwise. I can get HDR content to play as SDR by using my computer as the source, and then setting the computer to SDR output mode. That automatically causes the TV to match it. The thing is, the sources I view also change their content. I can see that on Youtube. The quality will say "HDR" on their control bar if my computer is set to HDR mode. If my computer is set to SDR, then YouTube will feed me the SDR version of the same content.
There are ways I can force SDR content to use up the entire dynamic range and brightness capability of the TV, so in a sense I can force SDR content into HDR mode. It results in very noticeable color banding, as would be expected.

Same here, separate controls for HDR and the rest for the 32BL75U-W:

HDR10 YES / VESA DisplayHDR™ DisplayHDR™ 600 / HDR Effect YES / Wide Color Gamut YES / Color Calibrated YES

Picture Mode:
(Non HDR Contents) --> Custom, Vivid, HDR Effect, Reader, Cinema, sRGB, DCI-P3, FPS, RTS, EBU, REC709, SMPTE-C, Color Weakness
(HDR Contents) --> Custom, Vivid, Standard, Cinema, FPS, RTS

Seem to recall the TV has similar settings

 

[Trdat]

Contrary to many claims, OLED still are susceptible to screen burn.
I wouldn't dare use one as an alternative PC screen as I often do and then fall
asleep with ASR or whatever on the tube.

I'm sifting through these comments to learn more about what the best PC Screen would be, you mention screen burn. I use my TV 2-3 metres away with my mouse and keyboard on a table infront usually as a general computer monitor but also watch youtube and plenty of television series(no movies) either on Netflix or other streaming services.

What do you mean by screen burn? And is there then a recommendation for my use case if I am keen to upgrade my 2k probably LCD cheap Chinese 75 inch TV? Although I am quite happy with it the time will come I will want 4k.

Actually if anyone can recommend anything or provide more infor regarding this it would be appreciated as I found this thread very informative as I have been meaning to switch to 4k.

 

[DLS79]

What do you mean by screen burn?

every screen can burn in, plasma, lcd, and oled. They are all a lot better than they used to be. screens burn in when when the same image is displayed for long periods of time.

here are some videos on burn in

And is there then a recommendation for my use case if I am keen to upgrade my 2k probably LCD cheap Chinese 75 inch TV? Although I am quite happy with it the time will come I will want 4k.

You would need to give more information about what's important you.

for example:

• screen size
• price
• do you care about HDR
• color accuracy
• do you need it to be super bright
• do you want it to be smart
• do you want smart home integration
• gaming

 

[Chrise36]

Light quality differences something not mentioned in reviews:

 

[Krusty09]

Hello.

Are you talking about CRI? If so does the meter get its value based on perfect white because if so the top right monitor is closest to white or 6500k which had the highest score . So if he got those other 2 closer to 6500 then you may have something there but from the looks of this it is a floored test.

But cri is important. 90 and above is considered top notch or above average.

 

[Tim Link]

Light quality differences something not mentioned in reviews:

Very interesting, but I'm not sure how that correlates to how the colors in the picture comes across to the eye, which is what matters. It does suggest that if you're using a white scene as room lighting for photography, the Pioneer is going to provide the light with the best CRI.

 

[Krusty09]

Regardless of how it comes across subjectively is one thing but how it comes across after calibration is entirely something else. These monitors look not even close.

 

[Krusty09]

Also I would agree about the pioneer in only that it is the one closest to 6500k which mostly is always the target point of white for monitors. And perhaps that is why he is saying that.

 

[DLS79]

Regardless of how it comes across subjectively is one thing but how it comes across after calibration is entirely something else. These monitors look not even close.

how do you know they were calibrated? nothing in the video or in the video description said they are/were calibrated.


I will also say it's comical to compare $1500 and $2100 TVs, to one that was $3500 when it was released in 2008 (it would be $4,900 today).

Edit: all 3 screens where also "checked" at different output levels, all in all a shoddy comparison.