Shogun

[BrooklynNick]

No more seasons, this will conclude the Shogun chapter. I think they should have made 15 episodes but then again they don't know if it is a success or not.

I'm really enjoying this show a lot. I had not realized that it was a limited series. I'm really hoping they came up with a satisfying conclusion for the final three episodes. It feels like it will be difficult for them to wrap everything up that quickly.

 

[BrooklynNick]

My biggest complain about the show, which I really like otherwise, is the fight scenes. They are almost always in the dark and cut short. Two or three times they have shown everyone getting ready for a big fight and then cut to a bunch of dead bodies on the ground. I'm guessing this is for cost savings.

 

[Bleib]

I'm really enjoying this show a lot. I had not realized that it was a limited series. I'm really hoping they came up with a satisfying conclusion for the final three episodes. It feels like it will be difficult for them to wrap everything up that quickly.

If you can try to watch the 80s version as well, this is what I plan doing after the new one has concluded. The music by Maurice Jarre is phenomenal in the 80s version..he's actually the father of Jean Michel Jarre

 

[DWPress]

My biggest complain about the show, which I really like otherwise, is the fight scenes.

I actually find it refreshing, not everything has to be Hollywood explosions and choreographed dances of death. Story driven television and movies are rare!

 

[kemmler3D]

Secondly, it lets him avoid all the people who would complain if he got the symptoms/effects of leprosy wrong. It frees him to describe it any way he pleases.

That's a good point. I've read that GOT is based on the real-life war of the roses. So making it a fantasy book instead of historical fiction accomplished 2 things:

- Lets you put more fun stuff in like witches and dragons
- Avoids any critique about historical accuracy

All in all, sounds more fun to write than a straight historical fiction novel, but you still get the benefit of using history as your source material.

 

[BrooklynNick]

I actually find it refreshing, not everything has to be Hollywood explosions and choreographed dances of death. Story driven television and movies are rare!

I agree with you in general. In Shogun, I felt like it was due to budget constraints rather than an artistic decision.

 

[nerdstrike]

Superb series (to episode 8). Grade A for creating a real sense of inscrutable plotting from all corners.

Played Shogun: Total War about 20 years ago, seems legit!

 

[Gorgonzola]

My biggest complain about the show, which I really like otherwise, is the fight scenes. They are almost always in the dark and cut short. Two or three times they have shown everyone getting ready for a big fight and then cut to a bunch of dead bodies on the ground. I'm guessing this is for cost savings.

Hate to sound contrarian but I'm glad too much of the show isn't taken up by fight scenes. 'Way too many shows nowadays seem to be built around fight scenes with any plot substance seemingly only providing the pretext for the fights.

 

[BrooklynNick]

Hate to sound contrarian but I'm glad too much of the show isn't taken up by fight scenes.

Right, but half of my complaint is that these fight scenes are too dark. That takes up the same amount of time, but means that we are just seeing stuntmen in shadow rather than experiencing the drama of seeing the characters in peril. Sometimes they overcome this, like in the scene where the ship escapes and the translator's husband stays behind to keep fighting. But even then, it is so dark that a lot of it ends up impressionistic. Overall, the darkness just feels like a money saver to me; which may be necessary but still is a valid criticism. The other part of my complaint is the quick cut. What bothers me there is not that we don't get to see the fight, but that the cut is extremely jarring (to me anyway).

 

[Gorgonzola]

I watched it back in the ’80s, and every so often since – always loved it. The book is far more extensive and meandering, the mini series is a good distillation.

I really like the '80's series too have watched in several times over the years. However I'm really enjoying the '24 version as well. The history & politics -- albeit pseudo -- gives adds a lot of depth to the story and gives a flavor for the actually history of that epoch in Japan.

If one wants a dramatized but much more factual history of the era one ought to watch the Netflix series, Age of Samurai: Battle for Japan.

 

[AdamG]

Enjoying the show, but I think they went too far with the anamorphic lens use. A bit distracting sometimes.

In my humble singular opinion. This is what entertainment is supposed to be. Tell me a compelling story and make me feel like I am there. I have been a fan of the 1980’s version for years and have watched it at least a dozen times. This new show is a masterpiece. Sets, costumes, story line and pacing and on top of that an amazing cast that makes me feel transported to the time and place of the story. I want to compare this to HBO’s “Rome” and “Deadwood”.

Maybe Hollywood will get the message that special effects and loud soundtracks do not a Movie make. Dune and Dune 2’s success is another example of a brilliant story that anchors the entire production. I’m hopeful that this is a sign of things to come. But for now I have to go because arrows just flew by my head and I hear the rumble of horse approaching!

 

[BrooklynNick]

Maybe Hollywood will get the message that special effects and loud soundtracks do not a Movie make.

The funny thing is that there are special effects in almost every scene. Half of this was shot with a green screen. The issue is not effects, but using effects in service of a really good story.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Yeah HBO series Rome is a treat if you haven't seen it.

 

[AdamG]

Yeah HBO series Rome is a treat if you haven't seen it.

A relatively new series like Rome might be of interest?

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[Blumlein 88]

A relatively new series like Rome might be of interest?

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Will have to look for it. I am doubtful it will equal Rome, but it could be very good and that would be true at the same time.

 

[AdamG]

Will have to look for it. I am doubtful it will equal Rome, but it could be very good and that would be true at the same time.

It’s not Rome. But if you are a fan of the Genre (who isn’t) it’s not terrible and has some interesting characters. Rome had some serious acting chops with a very excellent cast. Who can forget Julius, Titus, Lucius and Marc Antony…

 

[theREALdotnet]

II have been a fan of the 1980’s version for years and have watched it at least a dozen times. This new show is a masterpiece. Sets, costumes, story line and pacing and on top of that an amazing cast that makes me feel transported to the time and place of the story.

I’m only two episodes in, but I feel a bit less enthusiastic. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a great adaptation, and I eagerly await the next episodes. However, I cannot help making comparisons with the 1980 version.

I do like the greater detail in the story, owed to it being twice the length overall. But I also have some gripes:

- I detest the teal/orange colour grading. But I don’t mind the anamorphic effect.
- I find the portrayal of the main characters, their conflicts, attitudes and intrigues to be stereotypically Western, and bit flat and predictable. The 1980 rendition of the Japanese protagonists had more of a enigmatic and alien flair.
- There are no charismatic leads, at least not on the 1980 level. Mifune, Shimada, Chamberlain, Rhys-Davies, Meguro added a whole new dimension.
- I find the sets to be too much like sets. 1980 had more palpable dirt, squalor and natural beauty. The shot of Osaka that looked like a drone fly-over made my eyes roll a bit.

Like I said, only two episodes in, and looking forward to the rest. If I find more things that impress or disappoint me I’ll come back to this thread.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I’m only two episodes in, but I feel a bit less enthusiastic. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a great adaptation, and I eagerly await the next episodes. However, I cannot help making comparisons with the 1980 version.

I do like the greater detail in the story, owed to it being twice the length overall. But I also have some gripes:

- I detest the teal/orange colour grading. But I don’t mind the anamorphic effect.
- I find the portrayal of the main characters, their conflicts, attitudes and intrigues to be stereotypically Western, and bit flat and predictable. The 1980 rendition of the Japanese protagonists had more of a enigmatic and alien flair.
- There are no charismatic leads, at least not on the 1980 level. Mifune, Shimada, Chamberlain, Rhys-Davies, Meguro added a whole new dimension.
- I find the sets to be too much like sets. 1980 had more palpable dirt, squalor and natural beauty. The shot of Osaka that looked like a drone fly-over made my eyes roll a bit.

Like I said, only two episodes in, and looking forward to the rest. If I find more things that impress or disappoint me I’ll come back to this thread.

I think those are valid criticisms. I watched and loved the original in 1980. It too was some of the best TV ever on network TV imo.

 

[AdamG]

I’m only two episodes in, but I feel a bit less enthusiastic. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a great adaptation, and I eagerly await the next episodes. However, I cannot help making comparisons with the 1980 version.

I do like the greater detail in the story, owed to it being twice the length overall. But I also have some gripes:

- I detest the teal/orange colour grading. But I don’t mind the anamorphic effect.
- I find the portrayal of the main characters, their conflicts, attitudes and intrigues to be stereotypically Western, and bit flat and predictable. The 1980 rendition of the Japanese protagonists had more of a enigmatic and alien flair.
- There are no charismatic leads, at least not on the 1980 level. Mifune, Shimada, Chamberlain, Rhys-Davies, Meguro added a whole new dimension.
- I find the sets to be too much like sets. 1980 had more palpable dirt, squalor and natural beauty. The shot of Osaka that looked like a drone fly-over made my eyes roll a bit.

Like I said, only two episodes in, and looking forward to the rest. If I find more things that impress or disappoint me I’ll come back to this thread.

It does start off slow and then it starts getting into the deeper culture differences and revelations from Pilots perspective. I agree with most of your points but I think the show gets better with each successive episode. Agree it not perfect and maybe I am over impressed to see something of quality come out of Hollywood of late. If I have to watch another Superhero movie with absolutely no story or character connection I might go mad. Perhaps that moment has already passed.

 

[Zim]

I've never watched the 1980 version but I think this video below might be of interest for people who have;