PA and Studio Monitor speakers vs HiFi modified sound

[DLS79]

This is a bold statement. Do you think most known studio engineers and mixers would also agree ? I doubt it.

The consumer market is far bigger than the studio market, so in some ways it almost doesn't mater what studio engineers think.

 

[olieb]

Because far to many people don't use their brains! Lots of people believe monitors are only for studio work and HiFi is only for consumers and vice versa. Thus manufactures wanting to maximize profit (within reason), will make both and not waste time trying to fight the stereotypes.

That may be one reason, but there are others much more rational ones.
Studio monitors are tools, hifi speakers are furniture, and there are different ideas about mounting, connectivity and use case.
I.e. there is a studio version of D&D 8c though it is the same speaker but still a different model.

8c Studio

The 8c Studio delivers superior sound quality with its adaptive, room matching and cardioid features for a professional studio experience. Easily attach it to the D&D bracket system for enhanced installation options. The 8c Studio does not support streaming services.

dutchdutch.com

Another example is Grimm's LS1 that is used in studios too, but looks quite different is this case.

LS1 in Concertgebouw studio - Grimm Audio

We are honoured to inform you the broadcasting and recording teams that share the Concertgebouw studio in Amsterdam for their orchestral recordings selected the Grimm Audio LS1 as their surround monitor system. We developed a special edition of the LS1 with short legs so the speakers could be...

www.grimmaudio.com

PA is a different animal altogether.
EDIT: In the end the big companies just have different departments that produce different products for different markets. Sometimes the "sound philosophy" of these departments might be different, sometimes not. In any case this does not have to be the case at all.

 

[Jim Taylor]

Thanks. So please tell me why JBL sells HiFi and Studio Monitors ? Why Dynaudio sells Dyna HiFi and Dyna Studio professional ?

In general, hi-fi has tremendous burdens; it has to look good, it has to fit into your lifestyle and satisfy the wife. OTOH, professional gear has to impress the client; it can look like crap and no one would care.

This is a bold statement. Do you think most known studio engineers and mixers would also agree ? I doubt it.

The consumer market is far bigger than the studio market, so in some ways it almost doesn't mater what studio engineers think.

The point @DLS79 made is correct: the consumer drives the broader market. Of course, in some cases the consumer is basing their decisions on information from the 1950s and 1960s, which in this day and age amounts to mis-information. Unfortunately, many profit-driven businesses are willing to pander to that.

Jim

 

[StereoDav]

The consumer market is far bigger than the studio market, so in some ways it almost doesn't mater what studio engineers think.

Let me paraphrase your answer: There are billions of people who smoke every day , almost does not matter what the doctors say about smoking.

 

[kemmler3D]

Studio monitors are more likely to have "professional" features like XLR vs. RCA inputs, Dante support, etc. They also "look like" studio equipment, and consumer speakers "look like" consumer speakers, but fundamentally they are the same technology. Blindfolded you could not easily tell a good "hi-fi" speaker apart from a studio speaker.

Case in point:

Here are two frequency responses from Amir's reviews. I've removed the names... one is from a consumer / Hi-fi speaker, one is from a serious studio monitor. Can you obviously tell which is which?

 

[DLS79]

Let me paraphrase your answer: There are billions of people who smoke every day , almost does not matter what the doctors say about smoking.

If they listened and thought about it they would stop. I say this as someone who has had several people in my extended family die because they smoked.

 

[Duke]

Lots of people believe monitors are only for studio work and HiFi is only for consumers and vice versa. Thus manufactures wanting to maximize profit (within reason), will make both and not waste time trying to fight the stereotypes.

Another consideration is the listening conditions. Small studio monitors for mixing are normally used nearfield in exceptionally well-treated rooms, with the listener in exactly the correct location. Home audio speakers are typically listened to at greater distances in rooms which have little if any acoustic treatment, and listeners may well be in less-the-optimum locations. So the direct sound is normally prioritized for small studio monitors, whereas the in-room response within a larger listening window is often given greater consideration, if not outright prioritization, in a home audio application.

Also, a mixing monitor is a tool whose job includes exposing faults so that the engineer can correct them. A different philosophy often prevails in home audio - the idea is more likely to be "good sound even if the recording is iffy", rather than "ruthlessly expose the flaws in the recording".

And of course appearance matters a lot more for home audio than for recording studios.

 

[AdamG]

Let me paraphrase your answer: There are billions of people who smoke every day , almost does not matter what the doctors say about smoking.

Why the attitude and aggression ? Did you come here to have a conversation and exchange opinions and information or to spike the ball and pretend you won some imaginary game/argument? You are most certainly behaving like a Troll and we are generous with how much slack we give new members. However, if you keep on behaving like this we will eventually just award you the T-shirt and send you along your way.

 

[StereoDav]

Ok , thank you all for exchanging valuable opinions.

P.S. Note to moderators: I posted my thread under General Discussion to exchange views. Should it be posted under PRO Audio ? If so, then I understand the questioning of my post. I am a newbie here. Peace & love.

 

[bodhi]

Ok , thank you all for exchanging valuable opinions.

P.S. Note to moderators: I posted my thread under General Discussion to exchange views. Should it be posted under PRO Audio ? If so, then I understand the questioning of my post. I am a newbie here. Peace & love.

Your opinions would be questioned anywhere here. It's mostly about you generalizing things bit too much and making pretty bold claims without backing them up with facts.

If you wanted to have discussion, you succeeded. If you expected "totally, bro" then you haven't read enough ASR beforehand.

 

[Purité Audio]

Transparent hi-fi speakers sound an awful lot like transparent monitors, indeed contemporary actives are equally at home in domestic or pro environments.
A good design is a good design,
Keith

 

[DLS79]

Transparent hi-fi speakers sound an awful lot like transparent monitors, indeed contemporary actives are equally at home in domestic or pro environments.
A good design is a good design,
Keith

A lot of active monitors actually look decent today as well.

 

[rdenney]

Let's define "accuracy" as the output waveform reaching the ears with as similar a shape as possible to the signal emerging from the playback media. Attaining accuracy by that definition needs electronics that do not color the sound, which is not difficult to achieve these days. And it needs speakers that provide flat frequency response on axis and directivity characteristics that preserve that flat frequency response in the room being used. Additional processing or treatments of one sort or another to address room issues that would undermine accuracy may also be needed. Speakers with excellent flat response on axis and effective directivity are also available, and not all of them are expensive. Some are intended for studio use, and some are intended for home use. And the processing capability may broaden the range of speakers that can maintain accuracy in any given environment.

Some who think they are pursuing high fidelity admire equipment that actually colors the sound in ways they like. Floyd Toole's "circle of confusion" suggests that this is as much a problem in editing studios as in home playback systems.

Probably the main difference between the two use cases is that studios usually have extensive room treatments to damp reverberation, which enables the addition of reverberation digitally during processing. Some studios pride themselves on avoiding this sort of processing, but they are rare. Home environments are all over the map, and most people would be unwilling to turn their living rooms into an environment as fully corrected as a studio. This suggests to me that home playback systems need more processing to correct room resonances, but in practice they usually have less. And so-called "hi-fi" enthusiasts have been trained to eschew such processing (in my view) to their detriment.

The notion that speakers for studio use are specially designed to do something different than (good) speakers for home use is a myth. Good speakers for both use cases seek flat response on axis and good directivity, plus the ability to create the loudness levels sought by the user.

Public-address speakers may be different, in that their directivity characteristics may be tailored to more specific use cases. Meaning: many PA speakers have long-throw designs with narrow directivity (horizontally or vertically) but the preservation of high listening levels on axis. Being loud enough and flat enough to the back row of the venue may be more important than smooth, wide directivity, and they attain evenness of sound throughout the venue with additional speakers, room treatments, phased arrays, and other techniques. But speakers designed for mixing decks are usually close enough to the console operator to need the same smooth, wide directivity as in the home environment.

Rick "suspecting most mixing-desk operators believe at least some myths as readily as home enthusiasts" Denney

 

[tomtoo]

Hello to all. Guys just to clear the facts and myths about the sound reproduction. I have decided to post this thread because I come across many threads that actually mislead the potential buyers or people who want to get precise answer about the sound types.
First of all , there is a huge difference between PA/Monitors and HIFI. The most credible and proper sound no matter what type of music / tunes you would like to listen to - is only via PA and Monitor speakers ! HiFi works totally the other way round - it is not supposed to give you the best reproduction because it is a falsified sound modified by the speakers' crossovers. Moreover, HiFi is extremely overpriced where many buyers give you much money and are duped for this worse sound reproduction. Mind this , most sound engineers do not use HiFi in their studios ! PA speakers are not only about volume , PA and monitors give you the most direct sound often with acoustics DSP or EQ to hear as much detail as possible. Now many PA listeners will say , they sound too detailed or sharp , yes ! It is supposed to be like that , this is the sound of the studio guys. I spent many years listening to HiFi and were never satisfied because of the modified crossovers that actually spoil the output throwing away the detail and making me fatigued. So to me listening to PA or monitor sound give me the most pleasure when I want to hear as much detail and power as possible. Also PA / monitors cannot usually be found in popular shops because they are profi products and look too dull for consumers who have often no idea about the difference. All in all it is of course a matter of taste at the end.

There is so much wrong. I not address all.

PA is not monitors. PA is about power. The best PA speaker is worthless if it not get loud enough. With DSP and active x-over you can make them behave more nice(good FR). Good studio monitors have the goal to give you a good FR and there they not differ from good hifispeakers. They just add some usability for studios.

 

[ChrisG]

Being loud enough and flat enough to the back row of the venue may be more important than smooth, wide directivity, and they attain evenness of sound throughout the venue with additional speakers, room treatments, phased arrays, and other techniques. But speakers designed for mixing decks are usually close enough to the console operator to need the same smooth, wide directivity as in the home environment.

It's both. PA speakers must have controlled dispersion, decent sound within the intended dispersion angles, and get loud. Most PA speakers are point-and-shoot 2-way boxes with a direct-radiating 8-15" woofer and a HF horn. They transition to omnidirectional towards the bottom of the passband, but the mid-high range should have decent directivity control.

+1 to tomtoo's comment above that the best-sounding speaker is completely worthless in a PA situation, if it can't get loud enough.

Chris

 

[A Surfer]

It's both. PA speakers must have controlled dispersion, decent sound within the intended dispersion angles, and get loud. Most PA speakers are point-and-shoot 2-way boxes with a direct-radiating 8-15" woofer and a HF horn. They transition to omnidirectional towards the bottom of the passband, but the mid-high range should have decent directivity control.

+1 to tomtoo's comment above that the best-sounding speaker is completely worthless in a PA situation, if it can't get loud enough.

Chris

Am I missing something here? I'm not sure how this has anything to do with the main point of the member who's post you quoted. What am I missing?

 

[ChrisG]

My point was that evenness in dispersion is an important factor in PA speaker design/choice, while the post I quoted seemed to suggest that PA speakers mostly need to get loud, and multiple speakers would be used to even out the coverage.

In most PA situations, using a bunch of speakers for coverage reasons isn't really an option. Instead, it's best to deploy a cabinet with the appropriate coverage angles in the first place.

Chris

 

[StereoDav]

My point was that evenness in dispersion is an important factor in PA speaker design/choice, while the post I quoted seemed to suggest that PA speakers mostly need to get loud, and multiple speakers would be used to even out the coverage.

In most PA situations, using a bunch of speakers for coverage reasons isn't really an option. Instead, it's best to deploy a cabinet with the appropriate coverage angles in the first place.

Chris

Yes ! And this is what is lacking in HiFi stuff - HiFi speakers often lack powerful , direct projection and sensitivity of the PAs.

 

[Cbdb2]

This is a bold statement. Do you think most known studio engineers and mixers would also agree ? I doubt it.

I don't. Did you know the most popular studio monitor for 25 years used for mixing was a consumer Yamaha NS-10. First don't put studio monitors and PA monitors in the same group. Totally different usage. Second, most major studios have at least 2 or 3 types of monitors (including terrible little
3' drivers ) to hear a mix on different systems, large medium small. The 2 major differences between home and what studios want are high SPL to impress musicians that are used to standing in front of a live drum kits and reliability (no speakers no income) and service, at high spl.

 

[rdenney]

My point was that evenness in dispersion is an important factor in PA speaker design/choice, while the post I quoted seemed to suggest that PA speakers mostly need to get loud, and multiple speakers would be used to even out the coverage.

In most PA situations, using a bunch of speakers for coverage reasons isn't really an option. Instead, it's best to deploy a cabinet with the appropriate coverage angles in the first place.

Chris

PA speakers are designed for specific patterns, not for evenness of patterns. JBL column array speakers are designed to provide very narrow vertical directivity and wide horizontal directivity. I used the in a church to float over the microphones and the first several rows that didn’t need reinforcement to punch some mid-bass and up consonant reinforcement to the rows further back. That system only needs two speakers. Bass reflex speakers like old Altec A7’s put a horn in front of the woofer to get more throw for long, narrow theaters. probably only two would be used there, too.

Not all PA speakers are plain two-way boxes, and those are really focused on portable systems. I own a system like that, but it’s most useful outdoors, where throw over wide directivity may be even more important.

Rick “home speakers fail if they don’t get loud enough, too—it’s just less likely” Denney