Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR)

[Abstracted]

My RZ50 doesn't trigger my SVS sub until volume 29. What can I do to fix that?

 

[vivid]

My RZ50 doesn't trigger my SVS sub until volume 29. What can I do to fix that?

Set SVS SUB to ON (from "Auto").

 

[vivid]

Can anyone using DL on their RZ50 confirm that they don't have "Bass Management" as shown in the yellow rectangle in the pic below?

No, it's not available on RZ50. But on RZ70 is. Even if you do not buy DL license. Additional DL license enables last checkbox "get full Bass Control".

 

[MbphotoX]

My RZ50 doesn't trigger my SVS sub until volume 29. What can I do to fix that?

re-run the calibration with the GAIN on the subwoofer set to a lower value.

It's totally fine if the AV-Receiver has the subwoofer at +6 dB
(unless you watch movies at 0 dB reference level)

 

[Abstracted]

re-run the calibration with the GAIN on the subwoofer set to a lower value.

It's totally fine if the AV-Receiver has the subwoofer at +6 dB
(unless you watch movies at 0 dB reference level)

Thanks!
But I can think of 3 gains that can be adjusted, and I'm not sure which one you're referring to:

• Volume knob on the sub (currently 2/3 full)
• RZ50 speaker level calibration setting (currently -15db)
• or the volume level in the Dirac software?

 

[MbphotoX]

Thanks!
But I can think of 3 gains that can be adjusted, and I'm not sure which one you're referring to:

• Volume knob on the sub (currently 2/3 full)
• RZ50 speaker level calibration setting (currently -15db)
• or the volume level in the Dirac software?

that's why I specifically said to adjust the GAIN on the subwoofer. (Apparently, they changed that to "Volume" because people are clueless..)

2/3 full means the subwoofer adds a LOT of gain to the incoming signal. Therefore, the Receiver will send a low-current signal to not produce too loud of a bass tone.
Low current = subwoofer will not activate.

GAIN on the subwoofer should be at around 9 o'clock.
That will require the receiver to send higher current to the sub to reach the same volume. Therefore, the auto-on feature will activate at much lower volume settings.

 

[Abstracted]

that's why I specifically said to adjust the GAIN on the subwoofer. (Apparently, they changed that to "Volume" because people are clueless..)

2/3 full means the subwoofer adds a LOT of gain to the incoming signal. Therefore, the Receiver will send a low-current signal to not produce too loud of a bass tone.
Low current = subwoofer will not activate.

GAIN on the subwoofer should be at around 9 o'clock.
That will require the receiver to send higher current to the sub to reach the same volume. Therefore, the auto-on feature will activate at much lower volume settings.

Great! Thanks a lot for your clarification!

Maybe I can lower the gain down to 9 o'clock on the sub, but increase the sub speaker level in the RZ50, to offset the decreased Gain, and eliminate rerunning Dirac?

 

[MbphotoX]

Great! Thanks a lot for your clarification!

Maybe I can lower the gain down to 9 o'clock on the sub, but increase the sub speaker level in the RZ50, to offset the decreased Gain, and eliminate rerunning Dirac?

your receiver has set the sub to -15dB, that's as low as it can go.
It's possible that the sub is still too loud for all we know.

if you have a proper SPL meter, you could try adjusting the volume accordingly, I suppose.
(measure with the spl setting of the receiver, then turn gain down and see how many dB quieter it is (measured), then turn subwoofer in receiver up by the same number to get it back to the original level. You want it around +/-0 in the receiver)

 

[Agapetos]

Shout out for still rocking LSi15's ... I have a pair for my dedicated music listening setup (with an Anthem D1 I bought used for $300, and an OG Adcom GFA-555 I've had forever, and a Paradigm Defiance 15, w/crossover on the D1 at 80Hz) and I've loved them for music listening for many years now. Absolutely fantastic speakers for what they cost, esp. what you can find them priced for on the used market. They are SO smooth and balanced sounding, I never get listening fatigue, and they cast an amazing soundstage with a well-recorded stuff. I'll never sell these things.

That said, for my music listening, I'd not try to power them on an AVR unless it was on a very beefy flagship unit from the distant past ... I've tried in the past and other than AVR's with VERY beefy power amp sections it's always been ... eh. Need a dedicated amp that pumps out a ton of power and is stable down to 2Ohm. Even with an 80Hz crossover, IMHO. Something along the lines of a GFA-555.

Surely would not be expecting a $1300 AVR from 2022 to be up to the task, esp. not with the LCi/LSi9 needing juice as well.

Edit: I tried to use the same setup as you have for HT for a bit, but I just found the LCi to be lacking ... maybe I failed to set up properly but I just found it too 'small' sounding for my taste vs. the LSi15 and sold the LCi and LSi9's and went with something else. Wish I'd kept the LSi9's though, they're also great.

A friend of mine lend me the adcoms 555 mkii when I was first getting interested in separates. Considering it's age, never rebiased or recapped it sounded awesome... Just returned an xpa 3 gen 3 which sounded good but not any better than the adcoms, which led me to go for some budget monoblocks from outlaw, which I finally settled on, to drive some JBL 4 ohms that I'll be ordering soon....after so much research and conflicting opinions on power amps, wattage and sound signature experience....the adcoms kinda put most of that to sleep for me, especially compared to the xpa and even my rz50.... anyways, sry about the rant, just had an adcom memory come back to me, they are great!

 

[dlaloum]

A friend of mine lend me the adcoms 555 mkii when I was first getting interested in separates. Considering it's age, never rebiased or recapped it sounded awesome... Just returned an xpa 3 gen 3 which sounded good but not any better than the adcoms, which led me to go for some budget monoblocks from outlaw, which I finally settled on, to drive some JBL 4 ohms that I'll be ordering soon....after so much research and conflicting opinions on power amps, wattage and sound signature experience....the adcoms kinda put most of that to sleep for me, especially compared to the xpa and even my rz50.... anyways, sry about the rant, just had an adcom memory come back to me, they are great!

Strange - due to 555 rave reviews, I got one (555mkII) to try years ago... it was paired with a set of Klipsch Forte's (I was not game to put it in with my Quad 57's due to the risk of arcing!) - I compared it to a Quad 405... I found it disappointing, there was a hint of harshness from the 555/Klipsch pairing, where the 405/Klipsch combo was smoother...

In the end I moved both the 555 and the Klipsch speakers on... my experiment with Horns at home showed I preferred stats to horns.

My Quad 405 later was replaced with Quad 606 amp(s) - which I still own, and which is still a fantastic amp.

 

[Agapetos]

This thread has been really important for me, thank you everyone.

I was pulling my hair out from trying to troubleshoot my rz50, symptoms being from flashing osd, right speaker occasionally measured 10 DB lower than left in REW, also, at times sounded lifeless and then just to wake up and suddenly have full well detailed energetic sound .... I feel like I have done as many measurements as Amirm LOL

I was considering new speakers, redid Dirac a million times, played with every setting I could get my hand on....then I saw this power limiting issue discussed and I wondered but it wasn't the same situation as with the bench tests so I put that aside.....

I just loaded new Dirac calculations just to check, and as I was doing a b c testing of my 3 slots, all of a sudden the one song I was repeating just got lifeless and quite low ...I kept hitting the back button a few times and the amp woke up to solid volume again...same song, tidal on Nvidia shield....I can replicate this easily....


Now I'm thinking back on how I would listen to an album, complaining about how on earth these tracks are unbelievably unmatched in level and sound.....on the same darn album....now I know why ..... I've reset the AVR, same, turned off Dirac, same, checked all connections in case the AVR went into protection mode from a short or loose connection, same, changed HDMI cable, changed input port, same....plus a whole host of other things ....this is exactly why the arcam avr11 was much louder than the rz50.....I mean, now that I understand what's going on, I feel a bit like an idiot.

But, had to try everything though, but main thing for me, is that I can replicate it.

So, I've had it with this Onkyo, and I can't sell it.... bummer! Now I gotta pick a different amp, shelf my speaker purchase and get past this crap.

Was really liking the arcam avr11 sound but, the on screen navigation is something I must have, it's basically non existent, so the arcam and anthem are out. Was considering az5000es, it intrigues me, but really would like to go higher end than the Sony.....

Rant over!


Edit: I'm gonna try putting my rp600m as fronts, just in the off chance something might be triggering a nanny mode situation inside the rp8000fs...on of the terminals on the 8000s was loose and probably a good idea to double check if the AVR is faulty or if its actually protecting itself for a good reason.

 

[MbphotoX]

This thread has been really important for me, thank you everyone.

I was pulling my hair out from trying to troubleshoot my rz50, symptoms being from flashing osd, right speaker occasionally measured 10 DB lower than left in REW, also, at times sounded lifeless and then just to wake up and suddenly have full well detailed energetic sound .... I feel like I have done as many measurements as Amirm LOL

I was considering new speakers, redid Dirac a million times, played with every setting I could get my hand on....then I saw this power limiting issue discussed and I wondered but it wasn't the same situation as with the bench tests so I put that aside.....

I just loaded new Dirac calculations just to check, and as I was doing a b c testing of my 3 slots, all of a sudden the one song I was repeating just got lifeless and quite low ...I kept hitting the back button a few times and the amp woke up to solid volume again...same song, tidal on Nvidia shield....I can replicate this easily....


Now I'm thinking back on how I would listen to an album, complaining about how on earth these tracks are unbelievably unmatched in level and sound.....on the same darn album....now I know why ..... I've reset the AVR, same, turned off Dirac, same, checked all connections in case the AVR went into protection mode from a short or loose connection, same, changed HDMI cable, changed input port, same....plus a whole host of other things ....this is exactly why the arcam avr11 was much louder than the rz50.....I mean, now that I understand what's going on, I feel a bit like an idiot.

But, had to try everything though, but main thing for me, is that I can replicate it.

So, I've had it with this Onkyo, and I can't sell it.... bummer! Now I gotta pick a different amp, shelf my speaker purchase and get past this crap.

Was really liking the arcam avr11 sound but, the on screen navigation is something I must have, it's basically non existent, so the arcam and anthem are out. Was considering az5000es, it intrigues me, but really would like to go higher end than the Sony.....

Rant over!


Edit: I'm gonna try putting my rp600m as fronts, just in the off chance something might be triggering a nanny mode situation inside the rp8000fs...on of the terminals on the 8000s was loose and probably a good idea to double check if the AVR is faulty or if its actually protecting itself for a good reason.

Are you sure that what you are describing has got anything to do with the AVR limiting power output in regular use?
Your speakers are 8 Ohm and shouldn't even cause that according to Amir's tests.

That aside, the power limiting shouldn't be audible since those Klipsches are supposedly very sensitive speakers. Feeding them 20 Watts should get you well beyond 90dB in SPL.

If you ask me, there's something wrong with your speakers.

 

[Agapetos]

Are you sure that what you are describing has got anything to do with the AVR limiting power output in regular use?
Your speakers are 8 Ohm and shouldn't even cause that according to Amir's tests.

That aside, the power limiting shouldn't be audible since those Klipsches are supposedly very sensitive speakers. Feeding them 20 Watts should get you well beyond 90dB in SPL.

If you ask me, there's something wrong with your speakers.

Oh, I'm not sure about anything at this point.

I'm seriously leaning towards possible HDMI issues and is considering trying out a totally different device, like perhaps the apple TV, or, I could stream from my directly to test that as well.

If it's not the power limiting issue, which it doesn't sound like, then, I'm still nowhere near a solution with this specific AVR, however, the arcam had no issues whatsoever, so there's that

 

[Beershaun]

On sale at crutchfield.com https://www.crutchfield.com/S-VOR8Q...campaign=digitaltrends_21012755&nrtv_as_src=1

 

[MbphotoX]

Oh, I'm not sure about anything at this point.

I'm seriously leaning towards possible HDMI issues and is considering trying out a totally different device, like perhaps the apple TV, or, I could stream from my directly to test that as well.

If it's not the power limiting issue, which it doesn't sound like, then, I'm still nowhere near a solution with this specific AVR, however, the arcam had no issues whatsoever, so there's that

did you switch speaker cables and try with the others for once?

no need to move speakers around, just unplug the fronts and plug in the 600s instead.

We're talking music here, right?
Does the RZ50 do streaming via Chromecast or even Tidal connect?
Did you try that, too? (I always stream directly to my Pioneer and haven't used my WiiM pro in a while; since it's via wifi, you get maximum quality from Tidal)

my Pioneer, after some time, usually switches the power supply into power-saving mode (you hear the relay), but the sound doesn't change at all when that happens.
That's why I cannot imagine your issue being related to this.

If you can rule out the speakers being faulty, I would make a warranty claim on the AVR.
Your issue is not "functioning as advertised"

 

[Agapetos]

did you switch speaker cables and try with the others for once?

no need to move speakers around, just unplug the fronts and plug in the 600s instead.

We're talking music here, right?
Does the RZ50 do streaming via Chromecast or even Tidal connect?
Did you try that, too? (I always stream directly to my Pioneer and haven't used my WiiM pro in a while; since it's via wifi, you get maximum quality from Tidal)

my Pioneer, after some time, usually switches the power supply into power-saving mode (you hear the relay), but the sound doesn't change at all when that happens.
That's why I cannot imagine your issue being related to this.

If you can rule out the speakers being faulty, I would make a warranty claim on the AVR.
Your issue is not "functioning as advertised"

Thank you. After many adjustments and attempts, perhaps too many all at once, I am now at least able to produce really good sound.....

I replaced the jumper plates on the speakers, did a firmware update which Onkyo doesn't specify what it did, changed my source to streaming tidal on the NET function, which provided much higher but rates than the shield, despite the shield TV being capable, and interestingly, in my crossover settings, it now has a message when selecting the say front speakers saying to set tower speakers at full range.....this seems new to me, but since I've had issues with crossover in this particular AVR, I'm good with that, my REW sweeps are much better when running at this setting.

So, when I run via HDMI both shield and Roku ultra, it's just not sounding right with music. But, movies seems good, at least at this point, so the wife factor is still in a safe place.....when I bypass HDMI for music it sounds really really nice, even with these mediocre speakers.....I'm feeling resolved at this point, as I can work around it, but looking to upgrade shortly.

I thought this version of Onkyo had the HDMI issues resolved....but clearly, something is still going on.

Thanks again!

 

[MbphotoX]

Thank you. After many adjustments and attempts, perhaps too many all at once, I am now at least able to produce really good sound.....

I replaced the jumper plates on the speakers, did a firmware update which Onkyo doesn't specify what it did, changed my source to streaming tidal on the NET function, which provided much higher but rates than the shield, despite the shield TV being capable, and interestingly, in my crossover settings, it now has a message when selecting the say front speakers saying to set tower speakers at full range.....this seems new to me, but since I've had issues with crossover in this particular AVR, I'm good with that, my REW sweeps are much better when running at this setting.

So, when I run via HDMI both shield and Roku ultra, it's just not sounding right with music. But, movies seems good, at least at this point, so the wife factor is still in a safe place.....when I bypass HDMI for music it sounds really really nice, even with these mediocre speakers.....I'm feeling resolved at this point, as I can work around it, but looking to upgrade shortly.

I thought this version of Onkyo had the HDMI issues resolved....but clearly, something is still going on.

Thanks again!

I haven't tested Tidal via the Shield, but I know that the Shield is incredibly convoluted when it comes to the hdmi transmission.. There's so many things it somehow does to the signal that are incredibly hard to figure out.
Did you ensure that you get a bitstream sent to the receiver? (or does the Receiver show some sort of "Dolby" when you play Tidal via the Shield?

As I said, I stream Tidal via my phone. Connected to the Wifi, I can simply select the AV-Receiver as the output (like my WiiM Pro that is listed on there, too) and when I do, the AVR switches on and plays my music. I can even adjust the volume on the phone.
I suppose, you can also do that when you use the App (if the Onkyo has an app like the Pioneer does?), because streaming Tidal via the Tidal app actually shows Tidal on my Pioneer app, too. They are linked, somehow.

That said, I would always do it that way for music, because you don't need a display to control the Shield, etc.

 

[Agapetos]

Yes, something funky is going on with the shield, especially with tidal. Even in the master mqa it still shows 16 but 2 channel on the AVR.

However, when, like you, streaming over wifi to the Onkyo it sounds amazing, I can also control volume on the phone and it now shows 24 bit 48khz flac, and it's through the Onkyo controller app.

I like shield TV but not for music for sure. So, tidal via phone is the way to go. Thank you. I'm looking for comparable android TV box but nothing seems to really compare in terms of power and stability... allegedly.....there's some, like buzz TV and dune hd r 4k ...what do you find to be the best most solid streamer for 4k with dolby and other surround formats?

One thing I have learned on my home theater reboot journey is that source is key. I had the Panasonic ub820 UHD player but sold it because I couldn't accept having to spend $25 to $30 per movie just to bask in the sound quality a few times and then purchase another one...gets way too expensive.

It's streaming quality was subpar, but the shield I also use for my UHD true HD library which the shield does very well. It has UHD true HD audio passthrough.

But, gotta admit, most of our movie experience is through prime and Netflix 4k....

 

[MbphotoX]

Yes, something funky is going on with the shield, especially with tidal. Even in the master mqa it still shows 16 but 2 channel on the AVR.

However, when, like you, streaming over wifi to the Onkyo it sounds amazing, I can also control volume on the phone and it now shows 24 bit 48khz flac, and it's through the Onkyo controller app.

I like shield TV but not for music for sure. So, tidal via phone is the way to go. Thank you. I'm looking for comparable android TV box but nothing seems to really compare in terms of power and stability... allegedly.....there's some, like buzz TV and dune hd r 4k ...what do you find to be the best most solid streamer for 4k with dolby and other surround formats?

One thing I have learned on my home theater reboot journey is that source is key. I had the Panasonic ub820 UHD player but sold it because I couldn't accept having to spend $25 to $30 per movie just to bask in the sound quality a few times and then purchase another one...gets way too expensive.

It's streaming quality was subpar, but the shield I also use for my UHD true HD library which the shield does very well. It has UHD true HD audio passthrough.

But, gotta admit, most of our movie experience is through prime and Netflix 4k....

I use a Shield Pro (2019 version) for all my video streaming. I've got >30 Terabytes of files on a Synology NAS (Raid 5 with 5 x 12 TB WD Red) (The Synology runs my Plex Server)
The Shield is arguably the best streamer there is to date, especially for Plex hi-res streaming. I can easily play an 80 GB rip of a HD Blu-Ray without issues.

I have to say, though, that setting up the Shield properly was quite the hassle.
With that out of the way, it's a fantastic streamer that sends lossless audio streams and Dolby Vision video to my Pioneer AVR without any problems. (Dolby Atmos audio, True HD lossless, DTS HD Master Audio, you name it.. everything works perfectly fine)

I don't know if there are any rental places left in the world, since I live in a remote village in the mountains..
But if I lived in the city, I would probably use a blu-ray player and see if I could rent the really good movies to get maximum quality. Buying those films to watch them once?! not worth it!

 

[Agapetos]

That's a really nice setup!

I've used Plex forever, it works, I just don't really care for the GUI or how it organize my media, but I've worked it out and I'm mainly a folder guy LOL

I've been in the computer business my entire life, so I have certain ways I've adopted that I am not willing to part with.
I like full control of everything.

Just a quick update on the rz50. After the latest firmware update everything sounds really nice, no word on what it fixed from Onkyo, but I'm super excited that everything sounds suddenly as good as I had always hoped to achieve.

Only tidal on shield is not working right, but that's a small issue at this point, even Google TV app sounds great...when I wanna do some critical listening I stream either from phone, Onkyo app or passthrough on shield....cool!

I just ordered the az5000es.....I just really wanna hear it and see if I can replicate all the excitement that some reviews are offering, or, see if it's just a fluke...I'm quite happy with the rz50 movie sound and I'm worried if the 360 spatial experience is going to be overstimulating.

If it's nothing special, I'll return it and upgrade my front to f208s which has been my dream for a minute.

If the rz50 stays stable like this, I'll definitely keep it as my main AVR. The arcam avr11 I tried was quite amazing sounding but boy the user interface is unacceptable to me ...I just can't deal with that.

Oh, yes, the huge UHD files with true HD coding plays on the shield no problem at all ...I just use an external super speedy SSD for movies and music....

Those raid 5 arrays are by far the best configuration for your use hands down.