Legal fund for Reviewers/Erin?

[muslhead]

Being in the right doesn't matter if you don't have the funds to defend yourself.

There isn't much that's more terrifying to a small business owner than the prospect of a significant lawsuit. I've been through two of them, and watching 5 figure legal bills show up month after month after month is hard to describe.

Often the cost of the litigation to protect oneself is more than any award, if proven wrong.
A collegue of mine was sued by one of her customers. It went to court and she was found not guilty of anything. It cost more than $2M to defend her case. Its a good thing she had E&O insurance which covered the legal costs, otherwise she would have been out of business for doing nothing wrong

 

[muslhead]

Obviously, IANAL, but I've been involved in a LOT of litigation over the years, including with the highly litigious Monster Cable. A couple people have mentioned some very pertinent things.

1. Has there been a cease and desist or other written communication from a lawyer? If not, this is pretty overblown. So full stop. This is just butthurt and whining.
2. Assuming there has been a written communication from a lawyer, is Erin's review stuff a business? If so, he will have insurance and if there is an actual legal threat, they need to be brought in immediately.
3. And as part of the expense of running a business, it would seem prudent to spend a thousand or so to get a shark to write a nasty response pointing out the legal peril that a threatened suit will put the plaintiff in. That will usually end things pretty quickly. See, for example, that famous response to Monster Cable from the lawyer running a cable company (was it Blue Jeans?).

#2 - maybe not. Not everyone, especially when they start out in a business can afford it. So he may not.
The insurance to protect oneself, in our business ran $10k/year (cost is a function of revenue) and you first start out there are so many costs that compete for the revenue stream that get pushed down to the bottom of the list.

 

[Rick Sykora]

While the offer is a considerate gesture of support, a threat is just a threat. If actual legal action is taken, then agree we should help Erin. Yes, he should take the threat seriously as it potentially could get costly. However, not only does he appear to be cooperating, Tekton pulled the speaker from their website. This would make it more difficult to prove any direct financial harm due to Erin's review.

As he has done some contract measurements, Erin does use the Klippel for business and at the very least, should be set up as a LLC. It was simple to do here, and the Small Business Administration helped us. If needed, they may be able to suggest what sort of legal counsel is best as well.

 

[Ze Frog]

Now would be the time when reviewers could say out loud "We won't review tekton speakers anymore until tekton decides to play fair with reviewers" !

As a reader, I'll do my part and give what I can to support Erin in case this becomes necessary.

Daniel

A great idea in theory and would certainly be something we would see in the review community, except for one absolutely massive issue... the 'reviewers' are 99% nodding dogs for whoever benefits them be that views, payment, freebies etc etc. The majority of these people have very friendly relationships with eachother and like to kiss each others backsides to remain in the camp. If these people were actually genuine they would all be rallying around Erin wether they agree with his anylissis or not.

Sadly this is the way of the world now, facts are considered bad, everything is fakery and narrative based.

 

[muslhead]

While a considerate gesture of support, a threat is just a threat. If actual legal action is taken, then agree we should help Erin. Yes, he should take the threat seriously as it potentially could get costly. However, not only does he appear to be cooperating, Tekton pulled the speaker from site. This would make it more difficult to prove any direct financial harm due to the review.

As he has done some contract measurement, he does use the Klippel for business and at the very least, should be set up as a LLC. It was simple to do here, and the Small Business Administration helped us. If needed, they may be able to suggest what sort of legal counsel is best as well.

I am currently a mentor for the small business assocation and can help. Erin, please reach out if you need assistance there is no cost so dont worry about that.

 

[bloodshoteyed]

what we're doing here is, at best, dealing with second hand information
why not invite him to join this conversation and let himself say what kind of help we could offer him?

with all of the BS he's been through in the last few years, i, persoaly, am all up for it

 

[testp]

Wat is the bases for legal actions?

Cant you Review everything However you want?

im only guessing, but prob. hurting company reputation, but its a good question, can't a reviewer review anything and give their opinion?

wrongly using the speaker for measurements, as i mentioned above, i believe not.

not to mention, if the exact product is down from their website, then why? -> future upgraded website information does not apply here (for this incident), so it starts to look like a cheese with too many holes in it.

 

[No one who matters]

Its a good thing she had E&O insurance which covered the legal costs, otherwise she would have been out of business for doing nothing wrong

It’s a very good practice for any business or professional to have coverages for various risks and liabilities. And to have a proper business structure to isolate potential losses of all sorts. And to set aside reserves for deductibles and/or small losses. It’s a cost of doing business. Those monetizing social media would be wise to do this with their first revenues if not upon creation of their account.

Most are loathe to acquire sufficient coverages whether business, professional or even personal - it’s ongoing cost, one usually doesn’t recover all losses upon claim, premiums tend to rise over time, and a claim often increases future premiums.

But one big event makes it all worth it.

 

[OldHvyMec]

I know when I was asked to provide information on a manufactures product for whatever the reason, I preface EVERYTHING with

"This is my opinion and in no way influenced by any other information other than the information available at the time of the
exercise. I cannot be held liable for information that is not provided, available or withheld either by error or due to proprietary
design, patent infringements or copyrights. It should be understood that the testing was done in accordance with standard
operation procedures provided from and by the manufacture of the equipment used." I (whoever I is) cannot be held responsible
for equipment failures resulting is potential skewed result of a product being tested.

If the result of testing is in conflict with the manufactures published result; a third party who will be agreed upon by ALL parties
involved shall provide an independent result of testing. (something like this).

I think it's better to stay out of trouble, rather than get out of trouble. Suggesting you have a potential war chest, MAY invite
guest.

I have never backed down from anything, but I have proceeded with extreme care on a few occasions because of the dollar
amount involved. Being bonded you take care of that bond (your reputation) for a reason.

A SPEAKER from Tekton? What on earth could a person say to get a manufacture so wound up. One review from one person
sure is causing a stink? I need to read this review. It must be a whopper.

It's ugly and it looks weird is a personal opinion, if you preface the opinion.

Mr. Tekton has engaged quite a few people through the years at a few different sites. I've yet to hear of him taking anyone to court
over an opinion. IF what someone says is malicious and intended to do damage just because they want too. Get ready for a court case.
One persons thoughts on what constituted a "GOOD" loudspeaker is just that. Their opinion. Nothing is written in stone as to WHY
one speaker sounds better to one person vs another.

Mr. Tool is a great example. He may be seen as an the expert in his field but that is purely subjective. One may look to PS audio and
another to Danny at GR. What people think is all that matters in a the world of sound. Music or lyrics on the other hand has been going
through the courts since we have had courts.

Many people don't like Tekton for the simple reason they don't follow the general rules of speaker building, design or advertising.
The patents Tekton has, are because they are different than anything else, not that they are better than anything else. Danny Richie
was as close, as anyone ever was, to being sued to death behind accusation made about VMPS speakers. His "supposed repairs"?
He flaunted the fact of a repair when in fact the repair was offered from the factory in the form of a resistor that was mislabeled
in less than 30-40 kits that were sold.

The campaign from VMPS went to every original owner (via snail mail) not those that bought a product secondhand, UNLESS you
simply asked VMPS reps at the time. I noticed he QUIT referring to the repair long ago because of the horrible way he did it.
He added a lot of weight, material and cost when the factory fix was 1.00 usd and free to whom ever asked,
EVEN second, and third owners from the original.

Liability is an issue when you "Flame, or willfully harm the reputation of an manufacture." I have seen just that in the case of Tekton
on other sites. I've never witnessed malicious blather on this site about Tekton.

I've openly and will continue to openly laugh at any speaker, cables or any service over X number of dollars. Simply stated "some people
may spend 20-100k on a power amp and that is their business, BUT I've personally never seen any music product that I would consider worth
their price." A speaker that cost more that a Rolls Royce or Bentley is my measure.

There is more tech in the drivers door of a 64 VW BUG than any speaker ever made when it comes to actual facts vs opinions of
material and why or what they were used for. Speakers are 100% subjective in every single way. Even the way they are measured.
A 64 VW drivers door, not so much. Standards are in place and recognized as this is what a door "WILL DO" not might do, if you
hold your mouth right. The fact that 50% or more of the sound we hear is due to the enclosure those speakers are in and their
interaction with that room.

BTW no two rooms are the same any more than any two EYES or EARS are the same. All thing change
and all thing have a service life.

My speakers today are not the same as yesterday, neither are my ears, eyes or my hemorrhoids.

This is MY personal opinion, nothing more nothing less.

Regards

 

[FrantzM]

Hi.

This IMHO, goes beyond Erin or Audio. It is a danger, a threat. It must be fought with all the fervor one can muster. Many in developed countries tend to take their freedom for granted. This suit and similars, threaten the ability, even (what I consider to be), the right, to critic anything in a public forum.
Do take a few seconds to realize what that means in the greater scheme of things...

Peace.

 

[Yuhasz01]

Speaker firm is engaging in threats and intimidation. They have NO legal grounds for their action or else they would have gotten a court order to cease and desist. Free speech for reviewers!!

 

[Soniclife]

I, for one, appreciate the heads up for a room I won’t need to visit at AXPONA next week.

Go, and let them know what you think of them.

 

[SIY]

#2 - maybe not. Not everyone, especially when they start out in a business can afford it. So he may not.

Check out the price of the Klippel he uses.

 

[TheHighContemplator]

I'm in. Let's not let Tekton pull what Bose did decades ago.

 

[lordhumungous]

Often the cost of the litigation to protect oneself is more than any award, if proven wrong.
A collegue of mine was sued by one of her customers. It went to court and she was found not guilty of anything. It cost more than $2M to defend her case. Its a good thing she had E&O insurance which covered the legal costs, otherwise she would have been out of business for doing nothing wrong

Most small business liability insurance policies in the U.S. do not cover defamation lawsuits . Mine doesn’t .

 

[AdamG]

All we need to end this nonsense is for another independent reviewer to conduct a separate review of these speakers. If the results are the same then that would essentially be the end of this story. The results Erin arrived should be easily reproduced thus proving that the test results are consistent and factual. This sounds much cheaper than hiring and paying Lawyers. JMHO.

 

[handler]

To me, the real headline here is to avoid purchasing stuff from goofy, lunatic fringe brands like Tekton.

 

[mglobe]

If I were Erin I would take the review down as he did, send the speakers back to the owner, and move on. I see no upside for him to remeasure unless he’s willing to say “I remeasured these speakers and they are now amazing.“. Anything other than that will without doubt bring on more of what has transpired to date.

As a result of these two reviews (Amir and Erin) there are now two documented cases of Tekton threatening reviewers with lawsuits that can easily be uncovered by any search engine. Not a good look for the manufacturer. I’d just leave it like that and devote my energy to other, more productive efforts.

 

[KenA]

I used to be a criminal court prosecutor. However, I won’t even attempt to speak of civil law in a country that’s not mine.

My comments (and only an opinion) here would be: Don’t panic. Let it evolve and watch before taking any action over a fund, there would be plenty of time if actual action is taken against Erin. Perhaps be a little cautious about complicity, unless you are prepared to risk getting involved. I’d suggest the responses of support Erin is getting on various sites will almost certainly be enough to make the aggressor back down.

 

[OldHvyMec]

This is IMHO goes beyond Erin or Audio. It is a danger, a threat.

I would like to agree BUT this is pretty common place for Mr. Tekton to blab. So does Mr Synergistic Research, YET I've never heard of a lawsuit
from either about objective or subjective information. Speakers ARE NOT a revelation in sound production or is there a LAW that says any speaker
type is. Claims of having the "one and only great loudspeaker you will ever need," are just that, proving they aren't is the issue, not proving they are.

I have class D amps that CLAIM 6,000+ watts per channel? LOL, Oh really now, do they? Try suing them. The only thing bad about the law is
Lawyers and everyone knows it, they are just scared to death, to say it. I like Cromwell of Old England. He tossed all of them out. I liked his
war bonnet too.

Regards