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Horns sound this way? Ribbons sound that way?
- Thread starter beefkabob
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That's a very good list. Thank you.
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I learned some new stuff today, thank you!There are inherent traits.
The inherent characteristics of how drivers sound—whether they're ribbon, dome drivers, or utilize horns—are significantly influenced by their shape. This is because the shape directly affects how each type of driver disperses sound throughout a room.
For example, Ribbon drivers, with their slim, elongated form, produce sound waves in a manner that allows for broad horizontal dispersion but limited vertical spread. This trait can enhance the perceived width of the soundstage, making the audio experience seem more expansive.
scientific explanation of why the shape of the driver gives them inherent traits:
These phenomenons are related with the sound wave diffraction, which is a fundamental aspect of wave physics. Diffraction refers to the bending of waves around obstacles and the spreading out of waves through openings. The amount of diffraction (or spreading) of sound waves is influenced by both the size of the sound source and the wavelength of the sound.
When sound waves pass through a narrow opening (small compared to the wavelength of the sound), they tend to spread out more widely on the other side. This is because the sound waves are 'squeezed' through the small opening, and upon emerging, they spread out in a wider pattern due to diffraction.
A smaller sound source can be considered as having a point or small area from which sound waves originate, allowing for a wider dispersion pattern as the waves move away from the source. Conversely, a larger sound source may produce sound waves that are more directional, with less spreading, especially if the dimensions of the source are large compared to the wavelength of the sound being produced.
Results:
I explained a bit above but let me summarize it again:
Given their distinct dispersion patterns, ribbon drivers often project sound more directly in vertical plane and more wider in horizontal plane. This characteristic makes them less likely to interact with the floor and ceiling, focusing the sound more narrowly in the vertical plane. Such directivity lends ribbon drivers an edge in clarity over dome drivers but might also contribute to a sound that some perceive as less natural, due to the reduced presence of floor reflections which we are accustomed to in most listening environments. Also because of this narrow vertical dispersion they have very narrow sweet spot.
On the horizontal plane, the narrow physical profile of ribbon drivers facilitates an expansive spread of sound. This wider dispersion can engage more with room boundaries, like side walls, potentially enriching the immersive quality of the audio with reflective sound. This effect can vary with the type of music and the acoustic properties of the room, potentially making some recordings feel more enveloping.
Horns have a unique influence on sound dispersion. Their design can significantly narrow the spread of sound, making the audio output more focused. This characteristic tends to reduce the speaker's interaction with room boundaries, potentially enhancing clarity. The sound from speakers equipped with horns can appear more concentrated and less affected by room acoustics, which is often desirable for achieving a precise and clear auditory experience.
Note for audio science enthusiasts: when I say higher clarity I refer to a cleaner impulse response with a response with less small dips and peaks.
Metal (insert the material) dome vs Metal(insert the material) dome.
The debate around materials like Beryllium versus Aluminum in dome drivers often centers on inherent timbre, which is a misunderstanding. The material's stiffness is what's crucial, influencing the first breakup mode or the point at which the driver no longer moves uniformly. This frequency is beyond the range of human hearing for metals commonly used in driver construction, indicating that material choice impacts performance through mechanical properties rather than inherent sound qualities.
metal domes vs soft domes
When comparing metal dome drivers to soft dome drivers, it's important to understand the concept of breakup frequency. This is the point beyond which a driver can no longer move in a uniform, piston-like manner. For aluminum domes, the breakup frequency typically falls between 23-28 kHz; for beryllium, it ranges from 30-55 kHz; and for diamond, it extends from 40-80 kHz. The material's stiffness primarily determines this threshold, with stiffer materials like those used in metal domes maintaining pistonic movement up to higher frequencies than their softer counterparts.
Soft dome drivers, by contrast, begin to lose this uniform movement at lower frequencies. (around 1200hz usually if I can recall it correctly) Once a driver deviates from pistonic motion, its sound radiation pattern also shifts away from being linear. As a result, the sound reflections from soft dome drivers might differ significantly from the direct sound, potentially sounding more 'dynamic' to untrained ears. To those more trained in hearing, however, this variation might be perceived as a flaw.
Moreover soft domes show a tendency to 'beam' sound at higher frequencies, meaning their sound dispersion narrows, particularly in the vertical plane. This characteristic reduces their interaction with the ceiling and floor, similar to ribbon drivers, often resulting in clearer sound in typical home environments. This clarity, combined with a more subdued reflection compared to metal domes(because they beam), allows soft domes to deliver a sound that is both clear and rolled off in the treble region. This quality can effectively conceal issues in the treble range of the speaker's voicing or the recording itself, offering a forgiving listening experience.
Soft domes are inherently flawed compared to metal domes. Probably for nostalgia reasons, people still like their sound.
Examples:
Dispersion plots of a well designed ribbon driver.
dispersion plot of an extremely large ribbon driver:
dasdoing
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not sure if 100% accurate, but I think this summarizes the challenges of compression drivers/horns pretty good:
mhardy6647
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Jaxjax
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One can have a run of bad speakers that are unpleasant that all have had metal domes & to undo that in your head is tough....I know better because of measurements & such but it's still in the back of my head...I've had ALOT of bad tilted & rip your head off speakers that all had metal domes.... I think most any good modernish speaker keeps any ringing etc well out of audible range so it is & was for the most part just a tilted upward crap response mixed with a bad room for me. I have ran bigger JBL pro horns in a big dedicated room in past & it was great even with the metal domes in the compression drivers. That being said It's all soft dome around here for the moment.
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I am always confused by subjectivist descriptions of speakers. I've not clue what a metallic sound is. I honestly don't know what my speaker cones are made of, other than that they have traditional drivers and not ribbons. I just looked at the likelihood of good performance and bought them.
Waxx
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A lot is determined by the individual quality of a driver or system, not with generalisations. There are great horns, ribbon drivers and metal dome tweeters just like there are great others. My favorite modern tweeter (SB26ADC00) is a (cheap) Alluminium dome tweeter, and it sounds soft and silky i think, not sharp and metallic. Idem with some of my favorite compression drivers like the Faital HF-201 (titanium dome), that sound soft and silky when used with the right horn. Materials or even ways of construction don't tell by definition how it will sound or not sound, it's all in the execution.
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The madness is in the method. I recall vividly (although it's been decades) Harold Beverdige's ESL, a floor to ceiling (pretty much) coffin encasing a long narrow electrostatic panel loaded into a 180 degree lens with the back wave damped. You had both a pretty uniform horizontal and vertical dispersion throughout the frequency range of the panel--a very unusual listening experience, and not really 'electrostatic-like' because you didn't get the beaming typically found with those designs, nor the dipole effect.
The large enclosures were meant to be placed on the side walls, adjacent to each other. The listener was sort of 'bathed' in sound. Not sonically unpleasant by a long shot, but just kind of weird. Nothing really like it I'd come across; certainly nothing from a forward firing box. Due its form factor and other things (said to be sometimes flaky OTL 'direct drive' amplifier, not the best sealed LF sub integration, cost...) it was never a commercial success.
Oh man, there's a name I haven't heard in years.
Kool stuff to read about, back in the day, but things I could never afford.
Here's a short article on the man by his son Rick
And a ancient Stereophile review.
Beveridge 2SW loudspeaker system
This is an electrostatic column speaker, 6' tall and costing $6000/pair. An integral, fan-cooled amplifier is located in the base (footnote 1). The 2SW is said to cover almost the entire frequency range and is based on a patent, number 3,668,335, issued to manufacturer/designer Harold Beveridge...
www.stereophile.com
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'Bev' was representative of a handful of audio designers. Folks developing an interesting idea over the course of their audio hobby lifetime (often audio wasn't their 'day' job)-- ideas that defied any relationship to the practical limitations and demands of consumer audio.
Off the top of my head, Sao Win was another name, along with Alan Hill (Plasmatronics). There's probably a long list, no doubt.
Yep, I remember them all.
Time flies when your having fun.
Life is like a roll of toilet paper.
The closer you get to the end, the faster it goes. LOL
My understanding is that the preferred placement was on opposite side walls (when feasible), facing each other. The one time I heard Beveridges, set up by Harold's son Rick, this is how they were positioned.
The radiation pattern was (supposedly and presumably) 180 degrees wide, and when set up with the two patterns aimed towards one another, the spatial quality was imo outstanding, and it held up well across an unusually large listening area.
One of Harold's former employees was Sean McCaughan, who established ESP Speakers. One of his models approximated the Beveridge radiation pattern, and Sean set them up on or near opposite walls, facing one another, again with imo outstanding spatial quality being the result.
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^^^ This has been my experience, also. I have two conventional speakers set up this way right now, and the results are very ... satisfying. 
Jim
Jim
dasdoing
Major Contributor
And a ancient Stereophile review.
Beveridge 2SW loudspeaker system
This is an electrostatic column speaker, 6' tall and costing $6000/pair. An integral, fan-cooled amplifier is located in the base (footnote 1). The 2SW is said to cover almost the entire frequency range and is based on a patent, number 3,668,335, issued to manufacturer/designer Harold Beveridge...
It went from "virtually no real high end" to "superb high end" in the updated version. take note @Eric Alexander lol
A large headphone perspective that now includes the room interaction.
I'll withhold my personal opinion on this. LOL
My initial instinct was similar to what I suspect yours is.
But I now think the radiation pattern of the Beveridges is among the most intelligent I've encountered (assuming the preferred setup geometry is used), and I say this as a dealer for the competition, SoundLab. I can explain why I now see the Beveridges through a different lens (no pun intended), if that would interest you.
Thanks for the offer, much appreciated but to be honest I would have very little interest.
My passion has for many years been focused on multich reproduction which would mostly exclude this type of
speaker and their radiation pattern designs.
Got it, and I totally understand. I'll spare you and this thread the word salad I was preparing to serve!
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