Grid Storage Systems for Renewable Energy - Technology and Projects (No Politics)

[j_j]

Net Metering 2.0, where the power companies pay the same to buy your power as they sell it to you for, is a massive subsidy. When they changed to Net Metering 3.0 (May 2023) they only pay 25% of what they charge. This changes "payback" from 5 years to 11 years. Power companies were forced to do Net Metering 2.0 and they basically pass the costs on to other customers that don't have solar panels. Again this is one of the the problems with these green subsidies, they are making poor people pay for rich people's solar panels. In addition during the "gold rush" switch from Net Metering 2.0 to Net Metering 3.0 solar panels more than doubled in price. They signed up so many people to beat the deadline to NEM 3.0 that it will take them 2 years to finish all the orders they got. How this benefits anyone besides the solar companes (who price gouged like crazy) and well off homeowners (who get an irrational subsidy for 20 years at the expense of other rate payers) is beyond me. You can say "well that is a subsidy not done right" but that is how almost all subsidies end up, without market discipline central planners make up rules to give away money that is not theirs with good intentions but they almost always end up being counter productive.

Of course, paying at wholesale cost never even came up, right?

 

[j_j]

What does this have to do with US tax law?

Oh, socializing the risk and privatizing the profit is ok if it's not in the tax code?

 

[j_j]

You've mistaken me for someone who cares about people dumb enough to build homes right on the ocean.

I think this sums up the entire discussion. Perhaps not in the way intended by the quoted poster.

 

[Ron Texas]

No they don't. Peaker plants almost exclusively use gas turbine engines, which are cleaner than any other fossil-fueled power source. No, they're not as clean as solar and wind, but they emit 40-50% less CO2 than coal, and no mercury, sulfur, or particulates. And they can produce power indefinitely, unlike any proposed battery peak-handling alternatives. No other alternative can be turned on and off in a short time, and no other practical alternative can run 24/7 as needed. And they're hydrogen-ready.

For a gas turbine to be cleaner than any other fossil fuel source it must be built in a combined cycle configuration and for the absolute highest efficiency it should be selling steam to an industrial customer known as cogeneration. Peaker plants can't be cogen because the steam has to be available 24/7 and combined cycle plants are almost exclusively used for base load. That leaves single cycle gas turbines for peaking.

Also in the natural gas sector are Rankine cycle plants which are natural gas fired boilers which push a steam turbine. These are nearly always dual fuel or converted coal plants. They are not suitable for peaking because the boiler must be kept hot.

 

[j_j]

Same here in Alberta. "Air Products' Alberta Net-Zero Hydrogen Complex: This $1.3 billion auto-thermal hydrogen production facility based in Edmonton is expected to be on-stream in 2024 producing a natural-gas based hydrogen."

Hydrogen economic opportunities

Alberta’s investment advantages strengthen the economy and create jobs in the expanding hydrogen market.

www.alberta.ca

Edmonton Region Hydrogen HUB | Building our clean energy future

erh2.ca

YEG's Hydrogen Hub

Edmonton International Airport (YEG) strongly supports the Edmonton Hydrogen Hub and the efforts to grow this industry for Alberta, Canada and the entire aviation industry.

flyeia.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/federal-alberta-governments-pour-461-million-into-edmonton-hydrogen-plant-1.6645228

Interesting. Cracking methane has been around for a while, but what do you do with the carbon that remains?

You're confusing subsidizing construction of the US internet (my point, which it didn't) with the NSF's effort to standardize networking, so the DoD and its agencies did not have to try to inter-network a bunch of proprietary networking architectures from IBM and the BUNCH computer companies (pun intended). I'm not finding it fun or educational for others to continue discussing it with you, especially when you have a habit of starting out with an insult.

Oh, come one. I've been there since early ARPA. Subsidies are how the internet got started, and how it grew. Putting in a line to cut off when it was "the internet" is preposterous. Please spare me the bit about "uninformed", because you'd be so wrong as to be uttering professional defamation. Perhaps looking into regulated Telco's might be rewarding here, too, in the "subsidy" category.

One must remember, if one observes the real world, that the "invisible hand" is a reactionary, slow-moving response that ensures that most of the harm is done before the problem is mitigated. The whole point of intelligence and foresight is to avoid the harm, not profit from it.

 

[Doodski]

Interesting. Cracking methane has been around for a while, but what do you do with the carbon that remains?

A major project is apparently underway or supposed to start. I'm not sure where it is at this time but they are basically going to force the carbon deep underground. They apparently intend to pump the stuff around in pipe and then have a central location for getting rid of it underground. According to some major corporations they say they are ready to go ahead with this. Same as the oil sands there will be a centralized facility for forcing it underground. That's how they intend to make it to the emissions cap that has been set in place pretty recently because the gov decided to break the first agreements and moved the goal posts to a more difficult position. If successful in getting rid of the carbon that could change some major stuff futuristically.

 

[j_j]

A major project is apparently underway or supposed to start. I'm not sure where it is at this time but they are basically going to force the carbon deep underground. They apparently intend to pump the stuff around in pipe and then have a central location for getting rid of it underground. According to some major corporations they say they are ready to go ahead with this. Same as the oil sands there will be a centralized facility for forcing it underground. That's how they intend to make it to the emissions cap that has been set in place pretty recently because the gov decided to break the first agreements and moved the goal posts to a more difficult position. If successful in getting rid of the carbon that could change some major stuff futuristically.

Things like how long it stays buried will be very interesting to me.

 

[Doodski]

Things like how long it stays buried will be very interesting to me.

Me too. They will be using enormous pressure to force it underground (Hoping it remains there.) and if fracking is annoying to some peeps then this is going to drive them absolutely bonkers.

 

[AdamG]

Haven’t we been down this road before? Seems so familiar to me. It’s a head scratcher to be sure. One thing I know is if we don’t all take a break and de-stress a little this thread will go the same way as the other one. Remember this is just a forum on the internet and there are real humans behind each avatar with the same darn problems that life throws at all of us. So, have some respect and empathy for others and treat them the way you wish to be treated. Oh heck, just try and make a Moderator a little bit happier!

 

[pablolie]

We are conditioned to think humanity is something sacred and extra special. But nature has dealt with plagues -like humans are these days, whether we admit it or not- before. And nature doesn't need us to debate and waste our breath. When and if necessary, it'll respond and deal out new cards. Whoever thinks the history of our planet is a story of perfect harmony and balance can stay in their idealistic ivory castle, and hopefully not witness inevitable change.

I think it is funny we think *WE* hold the destiny of earth in our hands. Like Douglas Adams put it, we're basically just primates wielding ever more sophisticated twig technology. One thing is for sure: whether we believe in saving the environment or not, whether we believe in global warming or not... we humans do NOT control the fate of the planet. Volcanoes and earthquakes and hurricanes try to tell us to stay humble.

Personally, I'd like us to do more for the environment, because it seems the cautious smart approach. We do preventive maintenance in many areas *before* something breaks. It seems weird we are stil divided when it comes to tis issue, but hey, give it a few million years at most and whatever we do won't make a damn difference.

 

[AdamG]

That’s it! Who threw that twig?

Jk, but I’m closing this thread. It might get reopened or not. We don’t mind these side discussions and they can be very constructive. They can also be well, this….

It’s Saturday night gentlemen go grab your drink of choice and listen to some soothing or Rocking or Picking music…..Smoking Lamp is light.

 

[MediumRare]

That’s it! Who threw that twig?

Jk, but I’m closing this thread. It might get reopened or not. We don’t mind these side discussions and they can be very constructive. They can also be well, this….

It’s Saturday night gentlemen go grab your drink of choice and listen to some soothing or Rocking or Picking music…..Smoking Lamp is light.

Thanks for reopening, @AdamG247. While emotions occasionally get elevated it’s because this is a very interesting and complex topic. With technology evolving and differences in philosophy. Just like audio. That’s why we’re getting so much engagement. That’s good for us as members and good for traffic to ASR!

 

[MediumRare]

The holy grail of clean renewable energy: geothermal electricity generation at any point on earth. Full-scale field testing next year. 100 MW in 2026 (1/10 of a current nuclear generator.) Full commercial generation in 5 years.

Geothermal can provide half our energy – Quaise Energy CEO

Energy Monitor caught up with Quaise’s CEO, Carlos Araque, to find out how its 12-mile-deep geothermal drilling technology is progressing.

www.energymonitor.ai

 

[Doodski]

The holy grail of clean renewable energy: geothermal electricity generation at any point on earth. Full-scale field testing next year. 100 MW in 2026 (1/10 of a current nuclear generator.) Full commercial generation in 5 years.

Geothermal can provide half our energy – Quaise Energy CEO

Energy Monitor caught up with Quaise’s CEO, Carlos Araque, to find out how its 12-mile-deep geothermal drilling technology is progressing.

www.energymonitor.ai

That's superb and great stuff. I've always been a proponent of geothermal and I think that the present workforce in oil and gas could transfer into geothermal operations.

 

[j_j]

That's superb and great stuff. I've always been a proponent of geothermal and I think that the present workforce in oil and gas could transfer into geothermal operations.

Indeed, if they can solve the materials problems.

 

[Doodski]

Indeed, if they can solve the materials problems.

Challenges for the metallurgical engineer(s) are big. With the stainless alloys, carbide pipe liners and a can-do attitude maybe this can be done? I am used to seeing calibrated 20KPSI downhole tools at ~177C and so I'm not sure about what is required at the depths these people are talking about but we are talking within molten lava I imagine in some circumstances. I can go to a hot springs and be within kilometers of molten lava.

 

[Doodski]

...and I was not privy to the depths that these guys where operating at when using these tools at a calibrated 20KPSI. So I have no reference to it being 3km or 30km deep. Both are deep for a drill.

 

[Timcognito]

We have it in No. California in the wine country since 1960 but its fracking style that caused some earthquakes. Also it uses a lot of water which not in abundant supply in that part of the state that then exits as steam. They still are in use and treated water from four separate sewage treatment plants pumped as far as 50 miles from the hot springs.

 

[j_j]

We have it in No. California in the wine country since 1960 but its fracking style that caused some earthquakes. Also it uses a lot of water which not in abundant supply in that part of the state that then exits as steam. They still are in use and treated water from four separate sewage treatment plants pumped as far as 50 miles from the hot springs.

The Clear Lake field? They should use water from Clear Lake (apparently it's utterly unusable due to massive mercury contamination from the mountain at the south end that's made, basically, of cinnabar.

 

[Timcognito]

The Clear Lake field? They should use water from Clear Lake (apparently it's utterly unusable due to massive mercury contamination from the mountain at the south end that's made, basically, of cinnabar.

Actually, I think they do use CL water or at lease that's what they say on Wikipedia. The family best friend in High School had a place in Lucere a block from the water and I would spend weeks up there water skiing and boating on a 8' hydroplane. Sorry to here its gotten so bad.