-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Excellent CD Masters
- Thread starter formdissolve
- Start date
There are two - the original and Bluesiana II. The follow up sounds even better.
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2018
- Messages
- 2,820
- Likes
- 8,316
Another one: Talk Talk, Natural Order 1982-1991.
www.discogs.com
This is a 2013 compilation with tracks selected by Mark Hollis to showcase "the other side" of Talk Talk, e.g. deep cuts, and is meant to accompany the more well-known Natural History compilation.
I find the mastering excellent - and those who don't like modern compression will especially like it. It pops a DR13 on the DR Meter, with two tracks DR11, two tracks DR15, and one DR17.
In particular, I find track 3, "For What It's Worth," to be a demo-quality track. The ambience and depth cues, along with the tightness and presence of the bass percussion, are IMHO outstanding.
Finally, for anyone interested in the band, this compilation is also unique in that it's the only one that includes at least one track from all five of their albums, including their finale Laughing Stock. And in that vein, it ends with a unique two-track sequence, where there's a direct segue between the Spirit of Eden track "Eden" and an edited alt. version of the Laughing Stock track "After the Flood."
Highly recommended.
Talk Talk - Natural Order 1982 - 1991
View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 2013 CD release of "Natural Order 1982 - 1991" on Discogs.
www.discogs.com
This is a 2013 compilation with tracks selected by Mark Hollis to showcase "the other side" of Talk Talk, e.g. deep cuts, and is meant to accompany the more well-known Natural History compilation.
I find the mastering excellent - and those who don't like modern compression will especially like it. It pops a DR13 on the DR Meter, with two tracks DR11, two tracks DR15, and one DR17.
In particular, I find track 3, "For What It's Worth," to be a demo-quality track. The ambience and depth cues, along with the tightness and presence of the bass percussion, are IMHO outstanding.
Finally, for anyone interested in the band, this compilation is also unique in that it's the only one that includes at least one track from all five of their albums, including their finale Laughing Stock. And in that vein, it ends with a unique two-track sequence, where there's a direct segue between the Spirit of Eden track "Eden" and an edited alt. version of the Laughing Stock track "After the Flood."
Highly recommended.
HoweSound
Active Member
Thanks for this! I'm a big Dr. John fan and did not know about these. Just bought both as downloads from Qobuz.
Absolutely excellent mastered CDs .. there are many if someone is into Japanese Jazz Labels. 
Three Blind Mice label has some pretty amazing stuff with very high dynamic range.
Mari Nakamoto, isao Suzuki, ayako hosokawa, tsuyoshi Yamamoto, shigeko toys so many artists worth checking out
Three Blind Mice label has some pretty amazing stuff with very high dynamic range.
Mari Nakamoto, isao Suzuki, ayako hosokawa, tsuyoshi Yamamoto, shigeko toys so many artists worth checking out
thexfile
Member
The 1984 CD release of Steely Dan - Aja.
MCA did a flat transfer of the original master tape.
MCA did a flat transfer of the original master tape.
Lyle Lovett's first 5 albums are to me some of the best sounding CD's of popular music, or any music for that matter. It shows what digitally recorded popular music could have been if not for the loudness wars. They have never been remastered and don't need to be. The used CDs are cheap and even the streaming versions are dynamic (they sound quiet compared to other music but just turn them up a little).
Hi there, Well, perhaps Miles' Trumpet isn't 'Distorted' but a few other instruments are !!
"So What" .... Distortion in both channels but particularly BAD and loud in the right channel on the backing horns !!
"Freddie Freeloader" ... Clear distortion, both channels from the start but mainly in the right channel. Plus you first get to hear the slightly 'dissonant' piano.
"Blue in Green" ... surprisingly not too bad, they must have adjusted the input gain,..
"All Blues" ... there is some weird residual distortion in the right channel, but very noticeable distortion on the backing in the left channel, mainly at the beginning of the track and the piano almost sounds like it is 'clipping' the mic pre' towards the end, when the weird 'rattling' distortion returns in the right channel. It almost sounds like the instrument is filled with 'spittle' lol.
Early on, it would appear to simply be Too Much Level, into the console but later, it apparently has to do with a slightly 'dodgy' Noisy and distorting microphone, either capsule issues or psu/electronic issues ... Plus, unbelievably, the Piano is 'Out of Tune' !!
"Flamenco Sketches" ... if you listen very carefully, you can hear how certain areas of the Piano, are ever so slightly 'Out of Tune', not so much outright but within itself
If you have the corrected speed version the level of Miles' trumpet is seriously pushing the boundaries !! and I'd swear is 'clipping' something in the signal chain.
I6t was also this track when I first noticed the 'Tune' of the piano.
It matters Not, whether you have an Original Vinyl, CD or the later special 'corrected' speed CD, they are ALL from the Same 'Takes', ... there are NO 'Other' versions.
It WAS recorded onto 2 x machines, ... a Master & a 'Safety' copy but that is where and why the Speed issue arose, as the version initially pressed and used for years was from the machine that had the Speed, inadvertently & accidentally 'adjusted' ...
I have both an earlier "The Vinyl Classics" version and the later corrected speed release & had owned and listened to this for years and probably like Millions of others through time, Loved it.
I've been a Sound engineer for half my life and it honestly wasn't until I bought my new Fostex near field monitors for my computer setup and started 'Ripping' my CD's that I happened to notice the Severe distortion, especially in the Right channel,.. I honestly thought one of the Tweeters was having problems, until I put my headphones on.
It is such an 'Iconic' AND Fantastic album, I think we have all simply allowed ourselves to 'gloss-over' all the very noticeable Technical 'issues'.
BUT it can be a bit like a random 'squeak' or 'rattle' in your car,.. once you hear it .....
This is well documented and there is a great piece about it here:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/miles-davis-cd-kind-of-blue-with-distortion.617990/post-16656786
https://vinylhavenblog.wordpress.co...ind-of-blue-the-good-the-bad-and-the-awesome/
Last edited:
I was just listening to it earlier this evening.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #52
This pure DSD version sounds excellent, but definitely will always have some distortion.. but also not a specific CD masterHi there, Well, perhaps Miles' Trumpet isn't 'Distorted' but a few other instruments are !!
"So What" .... Distortion in both channels but particularly BAD and loud in the right channel on the backing horns !!
"Freddie Freeloader" ... Clear distortion, both channels from the start but mainly in the right channel. Plus you first get to hear the slightly 'dissonant' piano.
"Blue in Green" ... surprisingly not too bad, they must have adjusted the input gain,..
"All Blues" ... there is some weird residual distortion in the right channel, but very noticeable distortion on the backing in the left channel, mainly at the beginning of the track and the piano almost sounds like it is 'clipping' the mic pre' towards the end, when the weird 'rattling' distortion returns in the right channel. It almost sounds like the instrument is filled with 'spittle' lol.
Early on, it would appear to simply be Too Much Level, into the console but later, it apparently has to do with a slightly 'dodgy' Noisy and distorting microphone, either capsule issues or psu/electronic issues ... Plus, unbelievably, the Piano is 'Out of Tune' !!
"Flamenco Sketches" ... if you listen very carefully, you can hear how certain areas of the Piano, are ever so slightly 'Out of Tune', not so much outright but within itself
If you have the corrected speed version the level of Miles' trumpet is seriously pushing the boundaries !! and I'd swear is 'clipping' something in the signal chain.
I6t was also this track when I first noticed the 'Tune' of the piano.
It matters Not, whether you have an Original Vinyl, CD or the later special 'corrected' speed CD, they are ALL from the Same 'Takes', ... there are NO 'Other' versions.
It WAS recorded onto 2 x machines, ... a Master & a 'Safety' copy but that is where and why the Speed issue arose, as the version initially pressed and used for years was from the machine that had the Speed, inadvertently & accidentally 'adjusted' ...
I have both an earlier "The Vinyl Classics" version and the later corrected speed release & had owned and listened to this for years and probably like Millions of others through time, Loved it.
I've been a Sound engineer for half my life and it honestly wasn't until I bought my new Fostex near field monitors for my computer setup and started 'Ripping' my CD's that I happened to notice the Severe distortion, especially in the Right channel,.. I honestly thought one of the Tweeters was having problems, until I put my headphones on.
It is such an 'Iconic' AND Fantastic album, I think we have all simply allowed ourselves to 'gloss-over' all the very noticeable Technical 'issues'.
BUT it can be a bit like a random 'squeak' or 'rattle' in your car,.. once you hear it .....
This is well documented and there is a great piece about it here:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/miles-davis-cd-kind-of-blue-with-distortion.617990/post-16656786
https://vinylhavenblog.wordpress.co...ind-of-blue-the-good-the-bad-and-the-awesome/
Miles Davis - Kind Of Blue - Includes Pitch Corrected Tracks
Artist(s): Trumpet – Miles Davis Tenor Saxophone – John Coltrane Alto Saxophone – Julian Adderly Bass – Paul Chambers Drums – James Cobb Piano – Bill Evans, Wynton Kelly (Track 2) Recording Info: Recorded At Columbia 30th Street Studio, New York City, On March 2, 1959 (#1-3) And April 22, 1959...
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2018
- Messages
- 2,820
- Likes
- 8,316
But what is the analogue source they used? From the site's "About Us" page, it appears they use "found" reel to reel tapes rather than, say, original master tapes.This pure DSD version sounds excellent, but definitely will always have some distortion.. but not a CD master
Miles Davis - Kind Of Blue - Includes Pitch Corrected Tracks
Artist(s): Trumpet – Miles Davis Tenor Saxophone – John Coltrane Alto Saxophone – Julian Adderly Bass – Paul Chambers Drums – James Cobb Piano – Bill Evans, Wynton Kelly (Track 2) Recording Info: Recorded At Columbia 30th Street Studio, New York City, On March 2, 1959 (#1-3) And April 22, 1959...www.highdeftapetransfers.ca
For this Davis title, their web page identifies the source only as "Sourced from a 15ips 2-track tape." That could be anything.
Yeah, every now and then, (after not having listened to it in a while), you DO, ... it knocks your 'Socks Off' and you just sit there, literally 'Stunned' at How amazingly good the Playing & songs are, let alone how good the overall Sound is !!
Such a great collection of individual players !!
I'd have been a VERY Happy engineer, had I been involved in producing THAT outcome
Last edited:
Hmmm, well, I just listened to That version and I don't like it
Much like what has been 'suggested' on Many sites about the process of people 'Filtering' and trying to reduce the 1959 'Quality' from the Source to try and provide the new Digital, ours is best, Audiophile (expensive) copy, it sounds a bit weird,... in fact nothing like what I have, but typically the distortion, is Still there !!, .... lol
As a sound engineer, sometimes you wish people would just leave things alone and not 'mess' with things, seemingly believing They are capable of doing something that no one else has been able to previously,.. I care not about the 'Plug-In / Processor used,.. it's a 2 track,.. 15 ips, (I seriously doubt there would be anything else than a 15 ips copy), removing Anything, ... background Hiss, elements of noise etc from the Recorded Master, will have a change on the resultant output.
MILLIONS of people were and still are in Awe of this particular 'Album' and have been since 1959, (all listening to the available copies in the day), 'Warts and All', yet now in this Post, loudness Wars 'Digital' era, it is believed, We can 'Fix' it All,... lol .... Point is, do we really Want OR Need to !!??
Let's face it, there are/were NOT Multiple 'Takes' !! That was Not how they did things 'back then'.
They may have 'run through the song' a few times, (but with that ensemble I somehow doubt it) and they played it 'live', then kept the version Miles was happy with.
So everything we have and Will hear, is ALL 'sourced' from the same material / Master tapes, there are No 'Hidden' Better copies, apart from the Speed differences from the Secondary 2 track 'Safety' copy and it took them literally Ages to discover that
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2016
- Messages
- 20,914
- Likes
- 37,975
My copy of Kind of Blue is a Sony Super Bit mapping gold CD. Sounds better than most versions. Cannonball Adderly's Somethin' Else album is very good. Recorded a year before Kind of Blue by Rudy Van Gelder. Davis plays on several of the tracks and Adderly is who played sax on Kind of Blue. While excellent itself and maybe a better recording, it isn't as wonderful as Kind of Blue.
Last edited:
Kind of Blue really nails it till about the middle of the CD and then I think gets a lil too mellow.
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2016
- Messages
- 20,914
- Likes
- 37,975
Had a question about one of your older comments in this thread. You were saying some releases were Remixes, but not remasters. Speaking about Steve Wilson Yes remixes. How can you have a remix without also doing a remaster? Perhaps you meant to differentiate between re-masters using original mixes vs remixes (which will require a new mastering as well).
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
IMO, the entire "remastering" scene is more about mining the back catalogues, some clown fiddles with/ruins and then re-releases in order to get true followers to buy yet another copy of something they bought 20+ years before, sell to young people as something 'better' and simply capitalise on the retro/classic bandwagon.
The original releases are the standard. Anything else is usually a mess in my experience. The collector value is all in the original CD releases- nobody really cares about endless re-masters full of squashed dynamics, truncated lead-in/outs and spectral changes (EQ mostly). Sure, some 80s classic albums were a bit light on bottom end. That was until they worked out how far and deep digital recorded bass could be. Then it became an arms race.
Take Dire Straights for example. The original album CDs haven't been bettered. Apart from an early Love Over Gold with excess tape hiss (part of the charm), they've (remasters) made everything worse. And the compilation albums are trash. I wish they weren't but they are.
Jean Michel Jarre's Oxymore (2022) is an incredible sonic achievement. Mastered in multichannel/binaural/stereo/Atmos and the CD has a code to access the highest quality binaural download as a bonus (I haven't done that yet). If you like Jarre, it'll be a bit of a difficult one at first, but it's growing on me. Much like Zoolook broke the mold in 1984, but went on to be a favorite. Plenty of reminders of all his previous work buried in the soundscape of Oxymore.
Similar threads
