Cayin Mini-CD MKII CD Player Review

[Blumlein 88]

I recall a blind test of CD players in 1980s where one sounded different. They found out it had a stuck bit or something like that.

I seem to recall that. Maybe in Audio magazine? Seems like the 3rd bit up from the LSB was stuck on. Showed up in the linearity testing.

 

[GWolfman]

Go to a thrift store or pawn shop and buy any used one with digital outs, or buy something like this:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803399376617.html?

And a cheap USB 8x drive can rip far faster than any tacked-on feature added to a player. Not to mention burn discs, and read data CDs.

But who’s to say they are proficient/accurate?

 

[TonyJZX]

isnt this already well trodden territory?

if you're reading 0/1 off a CD then really isnt any CDRom drive and your associated software, eg. CDex, going to perform the same every time?

you can test it easily... eg. i have some brand name Pioneer and Sony whatever drives lying around

the tracks you rip should be identical to those ripped off a a no name drive like the one above?

if there were truly a case of 'accuracy' then the data you read off the optical disc would be corrupted in the case of the above drive vs. a brand name drive

to the drive what is the difference between a music file and a large excel sheet? nothing.

 

[PeteL]

isnt this already well trodden territory?

if you're reading 0/1 off a CD then really isnt any CDRom drive and your associated software, eg. CDex, going to perform the same every time?

you can test it easily... eg. i have some brand name Pioneer and Sony whatever drives lying around

the tracks you rip should be identical to those ripped off a a no name drive like the one above?

if there were truly a case of 'accuracy' then the data you read off the optical disc would be corrupted in the case of the above drive vs. a brand name drive

to the drive what is the difference between a music file and a large excel sheet? nothing.

The test here is not about ripping, it's about streaming trough a spdif interface. The former has error correction and the algorithm are going to resend the packets as many time as it takes untill the data checks out. spdif is real time and won't do that.

 

[Angsty]

The test here is not about ripping, it's about streaming trough a spdif interface. The former has error correction and the algorithm are going to resend the packets as many time as it takes untill the data checks out. spdif is real time and won't do that.

Actually, SPDIF/Red Book has inherent error checks built in.

“A common misconception holds that data errors degrade sound quality. As shown later in this article, uncorrectable errors are rare events. However, even if you had a disc with hundreds of uncorrectable errors, those errors wouldn't affect such aspects of sound quality as treble smoothness, soundstage depth, or bass definition. Instead, you would hear a click or discontinuity at the point where the uncorrectable error occurred. The rest of the music would be unaffected. Moreover, there's absolutely no evidence that discs with lower error rates (corrected errors) sound any different from discs with high error rates. Whatever's causing differences in sound quality between CDs isn't data errors.”

The Analog Compact Disc Page 5

In addition, mishandling increases a disc's data errors. A CD's top (label) side is more vulnerable than the bottom, because the pits are impressed on the label side. Scratches or contamination on the bottom surface are out of focus to the laser, and are less likely to cause errors. But...

www.stereophile.com

 

[PeteL]

Actually, SPDIF/Red Book has inherent error checks built in.

“A common misconception holds that data errors degrade sound quality. As shown later in this article, uncorrectable errors are rare events. However, even if you had a disc with hundreds of uncorrectable errors, those errors wouldn't affect such aspects of sound quality as treble smoothness, soundstage depth, or bass definition. Instead, you would hear a click or discontinuity at the point where the uncorrectable error occurred. The rest of the music would be unaffected. Moreover, there's absolutely no evidence that discs with lower error rates (corrected errors) sound any different from discs with high error rates. Whatever's causing differences in sound quality between CDs isn't data errors.”

The Analog Compact Disc Page 5

In addition, mishandling increases a disc's data errors. A CD's top (label) side is more vulnerable than the bottom, because the pits are impressed on the label side. Scratches or contamination on the bottom surface are out of focus to the laser, and are less likely to cause errors. But...

www.stereophile.com

I know. I said error correction not error detection. I did not say anything about sound quality.

 

[TonyJZX]

do cdroms have a different reading procedure for playing back cds vs. ripping?


the reason i would ask is that you can rip a CD in a very short length of time... if you are playing back a CD its at 1x or 74mins for a full cd

so people seem to put it out there that playing backs CDs at 'real time' is such a difficult task and yet we can rip at much faster speeds with LESS apparent errors???

i find it so strange that we're witnessing the death of CDs and yet there is still so much mysticism around the mere 1x playing of CDs... via sp/dif...

 

[mhardy6647]

The external adapter is a bit of a buzzkill. They should have charged $299 and put the darn power supply inside.

Look on the bright side -- this way, it's easy to pimp one's CDP out with a nice aftermarket audiophile wall wart!

 

[mhardy6647]

It seems there are still people listening to CDs. This MBL cd player sells for €15300.

CD-DAC N31

www.mbl.de

Fortunately, they haven't started a Can anyone explain the CD renaissance? thread here at ASR.
Yet.

 

[mhardy6647]

I seem to recall that. Maybe in Audio magazine? Seems like the 3rd bit up from the LSB was stuck on. Showed up in the linearity testing.

so -- this is just the kind of post that triggers my borderline OCD
I am leafing through 1980s Audios at WRH and - so far - the only "shoot out" I've found starts on magazine pg. 120 of https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Audio/80s/Audio-1986-01.pdf

I don't think this is the test to which y'all refer, because it's oh-so-qualitative. It does have quite a collection of 1986's CD players, though.

There was a whole CD special issue in '86, too!
https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Audio/80s/Audio-1986-04-CD-Issue.pdf

FWIW, I did one sort of intelligent search (for "CD comparison test") and I am looking at the annual index in December issues.

 

[Rja4000]

I've added a review of the Marantz CD6000 OSE KI Signature CD player here:

Review of Marantz CD6000 OSE KI signature CD Player

In an attempt to review more CD players, I here measured the Marantz CD6000 OSE KI Signature Launched in the early 2000s, the CD6000 was Marantz' "normal" range CD player. They then launched, and sold for a premium, the CD6000 OSE, supposed to be an improved version. And then the CD6000 OSE Ki...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Herbert]

so -- this is just the kind of post that triggers my borderline OCD
I am leafing through 1980s Audios at WRH and - so far - the only "shoot out" I've found starts on magazine pg. 120 of https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Audio/80s/Audio-1986-01.pdf

I don't think this is the test to which y'all refer, because it's oh-so-qualitative. It does have quite a collection of 1986's CD players, though.

View attachment 305230

There was a whole CD special issue in '86, too!
https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Audio/80s/Audio-1986-04-CD-Issue.pdf

View attachment 305232

FWIW, I did one sort of intelligent search (for "CD comparison test") and I am looking at the annual index in December issues.

Funny to read this Blabla. Back then, Sony and Philips provided the circuits to other companies, so the Nakamichi, Meridian, Mission, Magnavox share the same TDA1540 DAC. I own the Nak OMS 5, the Denon DCD 1800, the Sony D5, Philips CD-104, the Technics SL-XP7 portable pictured. Unfortunately besides the Philips all in need of repair… Up and running from that era: Sony CDP 101, Toshiba XR-Z70, Nakamichi OMS-5II (Sony based).
About the MBL for €13500 mentioned earlier in this thread:
They will never show you the drive/ transport. In the upper price range there is only one manufacturer left, Toshiba. I think HOP-1200. Try to find images of High Enders like Marantz (SA-10), Accuphase, Denon. What you glimpse as transport looks strikingly the same. My assumption is €20 when ordered as bulk. 10 years ago, when I researched building a player from scratch, it was only 3 available: Sony (KHM-313) Sanyo (SF-85, I think), the mentioned Toshiba. The Sony, Sanyo Models are in many „cheapos“ as well as in „High Enders like Accuphase“. The Sanyo even provides DVD-functionality, Cheaper to build one drive for both purposes than for each purpose (besides that CD-Rom demands both functionalites anyway). Back then, Austrian company Streamunlimited was about to leave the market of OEM-ing CD circuits for High End companies like Project or Music Hall. They used the Sony/Sanyo mechs. Talked to them personally. They were very open to admit that they had no influence on the quality of the mechs and many failed.

 

[amirm]

FWIW, I did one sort of intelligent search (for "CD comparison test") and I am looking at the annual index in December issues.

Try searching for one that included Carver CD player. I distinctly remember that one being in the mix.

 

[mhardy6647]

Try searching for one that included Carver CD player. I distinctly remember that one being in the mix.

With the Digital Time Lens?
I actually had one of those for a while (dump find).

In seriousness, thanks for the tip! Will do.

 

[mhardy6647]

Try searching for one that included Carver CD player. I distinctly remember that one being in the mix.

Looks like maybe this, from Stereo Review.
Thank you (again) @amirm!

https://worldradiohistory.com/Archi...iFI-Stereo/80s/HiFi-Stereo-Review-1986-01.pdf (starts on pg. 50 of the magazine)

 

[Mart68]

Try searching for one that included Carver CD player. I distinctly remember that one being in the mix.

I know the test you refer to. There is a multi-player blind test including a Carver, and the Carver was indeed reliably identified.

This was because it had some 'super-sound enhancement' gizmo that shelved up the bass a couple of dB.

It could be switched off and flat FR restored, after which it could no longer be identified.

I read through all those mags a couple of years back. I don't recall there being a player in that test with the same issue as this Cayin but might be wrong.

 

[mhardy6647]

I know the test you refer to. There is a multi-player blind test including a Carver, and the Carver was indeed reliably identified.

This was because it had some 'super-sound enhancement' gizmo that shelved up the bass a couple of dB.

The Digital Time Lens, and the above-referenced SR article shows that aspect explicitly. But that was a feature, not a flaw.
EDIT: The first-generation Sony seems to have had a flaw.

 

[Mart68]

So I misremembered - it was more of a smiley-face EQ effect.

 

[Herbert]

EDIT: The first-generation Sony seems to have had a flaw.

I still have one. Bought „new“ in 2014. Laid in its original packing in the storage of a German HiFi shop together with three other units for about 30 years.
Inside was also a CD catalogue and a red velvet cloth. Unfortunately I only have a 20Mhz oscilloscope for testing…

 

[amirm]

With the Digital Time Lens?
I actually had one of those for a while (dump find).

In seriousness, thanks for the tip! Will do.

Yes, exactly. From what I recall, they sound the digital lens changed the sound in obvious manner so naturally they did not consider that valid in testing.