Can you hear a difference between audio cables? ABX test

[voodooless]

It is evident that harmonics below 90 dB, not individually noticeable, affect the sound.

So where is that evidence?

In SET amplifiers: H2 -50/60 dB and H3 lower -> the H2 so high causes a bass boost when listening.

No, the high output impedance does this.

It is striking that it was detected with H2 -100 dB.

You just put out some assertions without proof. Where is the proof again?

 

[solderdude]

What is evident is that there are differences and I also said what cable it was. Measurements are used to verify that things are well made but do not guarantee that the sound is excellent. A descending harmonic profile is the closest thing to live music, hence the preference of many even if they do not know the cause.

It is evident that harmonics below 90 dB, not individually noticeable, affect the sound. In SET amplifiers: H2 -50/60 dB and H3 lower -> the H2 so high causes a bass boost when listening. It is striking that it was detected with H2 -100 dB.


(*) Test done with my cheap second audio system (PC). Magnat MA 900 MODIFIED -> Kimber Kable 8PR (DIY) -> KEF Q100 5.25" coaxial MODIFIED. With W10 optimized to minimize the jitter generated by CPU. And "clean" power: DC blockers + Schaffner RF/EMI filters + Würth 150 kHz ferrite.

The problem here is that the harmonic profile you prefer is NOT present in both samples. In fact H3 is higher than H2.
You seem to have misinterpreted the plots.

What you think is the 'correct' harmonic profile is infect a ground loop signal (I assume constant with higher frequencies dancing a bit)

 

[pma]

It is pointless to fight with pseudo-theories and “preferences”. The outcome here might be that balanced line might be audibly distinguishable. One of the JA points is the grounding issue. I completely agree that it may become an issue, but it is not to be fixed by a miraculous cable material like silver or teflon, but by a proper circuit scheme.

 

[maty]

The problem here is that the harmonic profile you prefer is NOT present in both samples. In fact H3 is higher than H2.
You seem to have misinterpreted the plots.

What you think is the 'correct' harmonic profile is infect a ground loop signal (I assume constant with higher frequencies dancing a bit)

 

[maty]

I insist, beyond preferences, the important thing is that there are audible differences, at least in my equipment (with speakers in the near field during the test). It seems evident that from a certain low level of noise, distortion.. what makes the difference is the harmonic profile, at least in this test. Yes, I even got the cables right, they are so obvious that they sound different.

Pavel (PMA) knows that for years I have been getting it right in his tests (op-amp), here or on diyAudio. It is easier for me now than then, which is saying something.

 

[SIY]

Pavel (PMA) knows that for years I have been getting it right in his tests (op-amp)

You didn't do the test. I've never seen you do any other test, either despite your repeated claims that you did.

 

[maty]

You didn't do the test. I've never seen you do any other test, either despite your repeated claims that you did.

And I dare to say which cable corresponds to each file, risking making a public mistake. If I did it, it was because the difference is very noticeable. Think about it.

 

[SIY]

And I dare to say which cable corresponds to each file, risking making a public mistake. If I did it, it was because the difference is very noticeable. Think about it.

IOW, you didn't do the test.

 

[voodooless]

I insist, beyond preferences, the important thing is that there are audible differences

Insisting doesn’t make it true. One only one that made some resemblance of proof is @Audiofire with 7 out of 8 correct, and even that would warrant more testing.

It seems evident that from a certain low level of noise, distortion.. what makes the difference is the harmonic profile, at least in this test.

That is not evident at all.

Yes, I even got the cables right, they are so obvious that they sound different.

Well, then giving us some ABX results with plenty of runs should be no problem at all.

 

[solderdude]

I insist, beyond preferences, the important thing is that there are audible differences, at least in my equipment (with speakers in the near field during the test). It seems evident that from a certain low level of noise, distortion.. what makes the difference is the harmonic profile, at least in this test. Yes, I even got the cables right, they are so obvious that they sound different.

Pavel (PMA) knows that for years I have been getting it right in his tests (op-amp), here or on diyAudio. It is easier for me now than then, which is saying something.

So you can hear the difference between -100dB H2 and -110dB H3 versus -115dB H2 and -110dB H3
Masking does not apply to you and you listen at 120dB peak SPL so you can hear that difference that could only be detected in absolute silence.
And to make it worse the groundloop signals (which are constant unlike the harmonic profile) are even louder than the max. distortion at 0dBFS of the main signal.

You realize that the difference you (claim to) hear is not the cable by the way but the cancellation of even harm. distortion due to the inherent behavior of the differential input.

 

[BDWoody]

I insist, beyond preferences, the important thing is that there are audible differences,

We get that you insist. Nothing new there.

If you're just going to refuse to provide evidence, no sense in making the empty claims to start with.

 

[pma]

...

 

[maty]

We get that you insist. Nothing new there.

If you're just going to refuse to provide evidence, no sense in making the empty claims to start with.

How do you explain that he was correct in assigning the file to the cable? Before PMA said anything about it.

Well, everything has been said on my part. The forum members have enough capacity to draw their own conclusions.

- The End -

 

[BDWoody]

Well, everything has been said on my part.

Your usual claim without any evidence whatsoever.

Well, everything has been said on my part. The forum members have enough capacity to draw their own conclusions.

Indeed.

 

[SIY]

How do you explain that he was correct in assigning the file to the cable?

You didn't.
And you didn't do the test.

Stop lying.

 

[Scrivs]

How do you explain that he was correct in assigning the file to the cable? Before PMA said anything about it.

Well, everything has been said on my part. The forum members have enough capacity to draw their own conclusions.

- The End -

Maty,

You have provided me with hours of entertainment on this here forum, and I thank you for that. I admire your unique mix of enthusiasm/tenacity, and personally feel you're a well intentioned chap, with a lot to contribute, and I'm grateful for that

However, methinks if you let the ole gray matter marinate a bit (read the questions, check your reply for validity/reliability. Do a personal checksum, etc), you'd save a bit of heartache for yourself, and I dare say the others that have to "clean up" so to speak after you in the hopes of maintaining the fidelity the data/topics being discussed. This isn't meant to be a jab, you come across as an earnest dude.

You also sound like an intelligent chap, just try and keep the horse ahead of the cart

My very humble .02.

*This post was created in the quest for the annihilation incorrect/misinformation/disinformation, and FUD.

Edit-- Failed my own "checksum"-- grammar corrected. See Maty, I rarely post and still fucked up. All the best brother/gentlemen.

 

[amper42]

To me cable 1 sounded a bit more upfront and fuller. You could detect it easier by simply playing one then the other. But even in the ABX test it was possible to identify the difference in most cases. I had no idea one was XLR (Cable 1) and one RCA (Cable 2). That's interesting. I completed the test using my lowly MBP internal speaker. I should try it on the RME ADI-2 for comparison.

 

[SIY]

But even in the ABX test it was possible to identify the difference in most cases.

Except that your ABX results were well within the "random" range.

 

[withoutsuit]

Thank you for this test. Just played it via low end system (smartphone with 3,5mm jack + rca in-ear headphones). It was so evident, that I liked file 1 more. Have to do some ABX test at home later, but right now, I listened several times both files and always had much more fun with the first and not with the second. Very surprising to me, didn't expect that...

 

[SIY]

Thank you for this test. Just played it via low end system (smartphone with 3,5mm jack + rca in-ear headphones). It was so evident, that I liked file 1 more. Have to do some ABX test at home later, but right now, I listened several times both files and always had much more fun with the first and not with the second. Very surprising to me, didn't expect that...

It will be interesting to see what happens when you don't peek.