B&O best audio builder? Your opinion?

[pablolie]

Guys, this post by Ray totally nails it. The thread was finished by the third post. You are evaluating B&O products by your criteria.
...

Yeah, but that goes for any product discussion anywhere - especially when someone starts a thread asking for people's opinions on a certain brand, as opposed to a specific product.

 

[ronniebear]

Best not to argue with the father-in-law but he clearly thinks that because he can afford B&O he actually knows something about audio. Happens so often with people with money. I still have my college B&O turntable from 1980. Looks cool. Never sounded as good as my friends’ tables with standard style cartridges.

In the early '90's, I acquired a used B&O 4002 rather inexpensively (i.e. circa 1995, used turntables could be had very cheaply at yard sales, swap meets, and thrift stores). I rather liked the 4002 with its MMC-20E cartridge, but can't say it was audibly superior to my Thorens TD-165. A friend who was into collecting audio gear liked it so much that he bought it from me for a couple hundred bucks, nothing to sneeze at given it was not cosmetically perfect and used turntables were not exactly hard to find on the cheap. In other words, he bought it for the unique styling.

 

[DSJR]

Best not to argue with the father-in-law but he clearly thinks that because he can afford B&O he actually knows something about audio. Happens so often with people with money. I still have my college B&O turntable from 1980. Looks cool. Never sounded as good as my friends’ tables with standard style cartridges.

Which Beogram is it?

We did well with the simple Beogram 1700 which by this time had DC motor drive. The 20S cartridge was a bit 'meh' but then it was cheap and upgrading to a MMC20-EN and better, a 20CL soon opened up the sound nicely. A thin Linn-style felt mat on top of the platter could also appear to improve things and the size selector (raising a 7" disc and lowering again - a 12" disc was too heavy so stayed put) to set the indexing underneath unaffected.

I had a Beogram 4000/20CL and a Beomaster 4000 once. The 'gram didn't do it for me as other models did and it was hellish complicated underneath - the 4002 was very much simpler I remember, but I always loved the 4000 and the better 4400 receivers. Excellent tuners I recall and the 4400 had a slightly cleaner tone (they'd worked hard to reduce intermodulation distortion I gather).

While I'm on about Beograms, I have here a 1972 beogram 3000 with rare now SP12 cartridge which 'sounds' lovely with excellent tracking as long as the ambient temperature is over 20 degrees (all their pickups seemed a little temperature sensitive sadly). The final 6002 and 8002 decks were easily in the higher class of decks too if one of the top pickups was fitted and so delightful to use.

At one time, they alone and KEF too, had the best sopeaker testing facilities in Europe I think. Whatever their gear 'sounded' like, you can rest assured it did what they wanted it to do!

P.S. I knew of Bose Acoustimass based system customers too, who honestly believed that the Bose Acoustimass sub-sat setup was the best of all speakers out there, as the boom box could be hidden anywhere they wanted it (so they were told) and the shrill (in passive form) little cubes angled to spread the sound around the room which back then was quite novel. The marketing was seriously slick I remember.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

Beogram 1600 turntable. Though I find no mention of this model on one fan site it was apparently developed for the North American market. Pretty basic though it looks identical to the better 1902. Basic cartridge you started with. At this point finding a better cartridge might be hard. My sister had it for years and just gave it back. I might try it out again and when I get back on my feet and find work again try a newer better cartridge.

 

[Soandso]

I still use my late 1980's B&O super lightweight 30 Ohm Form-2 open back headphones outside on hot days. They sound fine for casual listening (if use a head/sweat band to help snug the foam cushions down on the ears details get more impressive). The treble avoids becoming fatiguing on extended listening, bass is clean cut, and I don't experience sensation of any frequency smearing. After all these years the headband adjusts readily (without clamping or looseness) and a cell phone easily drives them. I've only had to rewire a new jack plug and replace the inexpensive rectangular foam pads - quality is satisfactory.

 

[Daverz]

In the late '70s and '80s, Bang & Olufsen had two audio products which offered well-above-par measurable performance, though there will doubtless be dissenters.

Bang & Olufsen turntables provided above-average isolation from acoustic feedback and very well configured tonearms which were (unfortunately) designed specifically for proprietary but very good B&O cartridges.

I liked their turntables, but the auto mechanisms could be temperamental. Too bad they stopped making them. If Technics can get $20k for their top-of-the-line table, I wonder what an updated B&O table could fetch.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

There is a company making B&O cartridges from scratch that are way better than the ones that came with the turntable I had for sure. I had the bottom of the line B&O turntable and cartridge though. Soundsmith is the company.

 

[Mart68]

I took some B&O speakers to a meet last weekend, people were amazed how good they were.

Three way with midrange dome, time alignment and waveguides - from 1983.

I was able to buy them second hand for very little because most people think B&O is expensive lifestyle rubbish. Their loss!

 

[egellings]

B&O was one of the first companies to market products based on both technical advances and so-called "modern" fashion. Technical advances cost money; money for research and testing, and for more than the absolute minimum wage personnel.

But fashion costs even more.

Jim

Evey vild and sveeng-geeng apartment should have one of deees...

 

[OG1950XXX]

Amir recently reviewed a B&O speaker, so you can have some objective evidence to bring to the discussion.

That B&O speaker is an interesting design and measures decently, but has some flaws. You can find much better-performing speakers for a significantly lower price. How much value does your father-in-law place on aesthetics?

I honestly understand why the legal issues you can create with your statements. If I were B&O, I'll be knocking down your castle. Speaking for the Father-in-law, just as much as they place on cutting corners to minimize cost. Nothing is perfect without flaws, man or beast.

 

[Grotti]

I took some B&O speakers to a meet last weekend, people were amazed how good they were.

Three way with midrange dome, time alignment and waveguides - from 1983.

I was able to buy them second hand for very little because most people think B&O is expensive lifestyle rubbish. Their loss!

Which model are you talking about?

 

[OG1950XXX]

The B&O formula is to sell a lot of lifestyle trash - but here and there they have great pieces of engineering that are amazing (and are priced accordingly).

But you get zero trickle down tech from the Beolab 90 when you buy garbage like some of the idiotically overpriced Beosound bluetooth speakers.

It is seldom about the *brand*, it's about the specific product.

Here is my "Trickled down tech from the Beolab 90 and if you can find anything that can compare, Please inform me.

Actually, not all of it is trash, despite many audiophiles turning their collective noses up at it!!!

I knew (and sold)much of the brand from the early 70's (when it really was a serious audio manufacturer with nice design as well) through to the late 90's (keeping ever distant tabs on new models). In the 80's, they began to turn their attention to more 'lifestyle' systems and sometimes the performance sonically was lost, especially in some of their later passive speakers and slightly hard toned amps. At the time, the now desirable 7000 'stack system' was actually very good to us irrespective of cost and of course, these system,s handed over nicely to the centre hub-preamp (2300, 2500/Ouverture and later versions of this concept) and some nifty active speakers with clever and mostly effective varying bass eq to get bass out of the slim aluminium columns. I wasn't sure about these in the large area of the shop floor, but in client's homes they could sound really excellent, the Lab 4000's on shelves or stands, the 6000's near corners and the well known 'pencil' type 8000's best well away from corners and on a long wall if not free-space. The turntables towards the end were 'nice sounding' rather than audiophile 'dramatic' but the styli lasted well and the acoustic isolation was generally superb and way better than a Rega or ProJect/Music Hall type of solid plinth construction with integral lid which acts as a sound board! Their amps for years were designed from the start to drive 4 ohm loads and we as Linn dealers selling three ohm Sara and Isobarik models were staggered how well a 1970 Beolab 5000 amp could drive them without collapsing or running hot... Their later amps were similar I remember. Anyone tried their landline phones? Given a good telephone line, the sound quality was amazing despite limited bandwidth! The multi-room was effective back then and came on leaps and bounds in the days before wireless and/or bluetooth. Many of the posh homes built in the town I worked in had the wiring built in.

OK, the products above are old now, but still serviceable and very cheap used (I'm tempted by a pair of 6000s in black in supposedly great working order for £200 or so and others readily available for £300!). The Sound century transportable unit was incredibly popular and sounded much better balanced than a boomy Bose Wave Radio/CD used in a similar 'modern table radio' kind of way. The mouldings and materials used in construction are NOT cheap in fairness and finish was always exemplary.

Modern B&O prices have gone through the roof and the tech used increased hugely. The speakers above gained for better or worse ICEpower active amps and the 8000 concept is still around with lens tweeter as the Beolab 18 with slatted wood 'grilles' and a price way higher than the original 8000 and inflation... The stores like ours were phased out in preference to franchise sellers in the UK who had to pay themselves for the shop fittings I remember (my ex employer of 17 years needed to find seventy grand in UK money to refit the shop in a way I found worse than what we had 'in my day' but that may have been sour grapes.

So no, B&O isn't and has never been trash or crap in any shape or form - in my opinion and now elderly experience! The sales management and service departments were always helpful and critical sometimes if the design was a tetchy one (Hitachi based VHS machines which lost memory and display and Philips based players with excellent piucture quality but a grinding clunky 'Charlie' mechanism - as in 'right charlie' to service). It's always been expensive, but isn't compared to the current high end and arguably better performing than most. The styling is distinctive and used to gain admiring glances. In my retirement I'm seeing much more clearly the benefits of such audio gear, believe me!

Here’s my Tricled down tech from Beolab 90. Find me a better performance Anywhere

 

[Mart68]

Which model are you talking about?

Beovox MC120.2

 

[DSJR]

Beovox MC120.2

You should try the previous 3800 (2/3rds Goodmans) and 5702, the latter a squashed Celestion Ditton 66 but with great sound for the period and still modern looks.

 

[Mart68]

You should try the previous 3800 (2/3rds Goodmans) and 5702, the latter a squashed Celestion Ditton 66 but with great sound for the period and still modern looks.

Yes, the 5702 looks interesting.

I just have way too many loudspeakers already.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

I honestly understand why the legal issues you can create with your statements. If I were B&O, I'll be knocking down your castle. Speaking for the Father-in-law, just as much as they place on cutting corners to minimize cost. Nothing is perfect without flaws, man or beast.

Opinions are not something you can sue for.

 

[SuicideSquid]

I honestly understand why the legal issues you can create with your statements. If I were B&O, I'll be knocking down your castle.

You want to elaborate on that? I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

For the record, I am a lawyer.

 

[Joe Smith]

I love my Beogram 1700 turntable, but when my current cartridges wear out, the cheapest option is now $250 from SoundSmith. Not great. Fortunately it's in my basement system so I only use it on occasion. Love the styling, though. Plays well.

My Beomaster 4000 receiver has some issues, but I still use it as a garage system from time to time. Super hard to service/repair (I've asked various techs, none of which would ever really want to tackle it) and I hate the plug spacing in the back. But again, it's a looker.

I think overall the products that came out in the 70s/80s were at a peak of good build quality with lovely, clean design. Today's B&O feels overpriced and over-styled to me. I think they were good to use back in the day if aesthetics were as important to you as good sound at moderate listening levels, and if you were willing to stay entirely within the B&O product universe and not change your setup very frequently.

 

[OG1950XXX]

You want to elaborate on that? I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

For the record, I am a lawyer.

I am referring to a review comment by Amir declaring a B&O product flawed verses his or hers dislikes about the product.
An I am just a regular plain Jane in the crowd.

 

[SuicideSquid]

I am referring to a review comment by Amir declaring a B&O product flawed verses his or hers dislikes about the product.
An I am just a regular plain Jane in the crowd.

You quoted my post and said I was running a risk of them coming after me. I assure you I am not.

Both Amir's review, and my comment, are clearly protected speech. That doesn't stop some unscrupulous actors from trying to use threats of legal action to remove fair comment from the internet, but I don't think B&O has ever been one of those companies. And they're a multi-million dollar business, they don't need you riding to their rescue.