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All About UFO's

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Ron Texas

Ron Texas

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(That's too many paragraphs of potential bollocks to sift through, I don't mind zoning out to TV mindlessness, but actively reading expected nonsense in terms of multiple long pages or paragraphs is too much to take, so I'll just take it as bollocks). :D (which I'm sure you intended! :))
Sorry, we don't have bollocks here in the US. CBP banned their import.
 

Robbo99999

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The universe is approx 14 billion years old. That is a lot of time for things to happen. Our star (The Sun) has been around for only about a third of the life of the universe - lots of stars have been and gone in that time.

From the linked (earlier) article -


Edit: my bolding of a point.
I don't think colonisation & civilisation is generally stable enough to continually & gradually (slowly) colonise a galaxy, etc. I think they phase out before they can keep expanding, one of the problems.
 

Robbo99999

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Sorry, we don't have bollocks here in the US. CBP banned their import.
Hehe, you guys can create enough of your own - just like most other countries! Only we hope the citizens of all our countries can sift through it!
 

oceansize

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I don't think colonisation & civilisation is generally stable enough to continually & gradually (slowly) colonise a galaxy, etc. I think they phase out before they can keep expanding, one of the problems.
How far away do you think we (humans) are away from being able to build self-replicating AI probes that could populate and explore the galaxy? We're a lot further along than we were when the Voyager probes were launched in the 1970s.
 

Robbo99999

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The universe is approx 14 billion years old. That is a lot of time for things to happen. Our star (The Sun) has been around for only about a third of the life of the universe - lots of stars have been and gone in that time.

From the linked (earlier) article -


Edit: my bolding of a point.
(Sorry, I've exhausted my ideas on alien life! :p ) No, but surely you can't be saying that a significant number of intelligent advanced civilisations will exist in the region of 5 to 50 million years - each civilisation is of course starting from scratch - I can't even imagine a civilisation last 1 million years, not even much more than say 10000 yrs given we're in year 2000 (albeit we have BC knowledge), but I can't imagine 1,000,0000 or even 5,000,0000 or even 50,000,0000 that you mention. Too much can go wrong.
 

Robbo99999

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How far away do you think we (humans) are away from being able to build self-replicating AI probes that could populate and explore the galaxy? We're a lot further along than we were when the Voyager probes were launched in the 1970s.
(you're forgetting the "distance/time & communication equation" I mentioned earlier).
 
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Ron Texas

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Hehe, you guys can create enough of your own - just like most other countries! Only we hope the citizens of all our countries can sift through it!
Right now we are literally up to our asses in confusion, or is it alligators.
 

Robbo99999

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Right now we are literally up to our asses in confusion, or is it alligators.
Same over here minus the alligators probably! It's a hard life but many times harder for other people in less blessed circumstances - the world has never been easy on us but some have been more lucky than others in their circumstances and some have managed to overcome them. Life is varied for sure!
 

oceansize

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(Sorry, I've exhausted my ideas on alien life! :p ) No, but surely you can't be saying that a significant number of intelligent advanced civilisations will exist in the region of 5 to 50 million years - each civilisation is of course starting from scratch - I can't even imagine a civilisation last 1 million years, not even much more than say 10000 yrs given we're in year 2000 (albeit we have BC knowledge), but I can't imagine 1,000,0000 or even 5,000,0000 or even 50,000,0000 that you mention. Too much can go wrong.
As far as we know Homo sapiens has been around for only about 300 000 years. Do you think it's inconceivable that within a (relatively) short space of time, we will not be able to build and despatch probes that have advanced AI and are capable of self-replication to explore the galaxy?

No, the "distance/time & communication equation" is of much less relevance to such probes - which are possibly the most likely way any civilization would explore the galaxy (given our current understanding of physics and the impossibility of traveling/communicating faster than light speed).
 

Robbo99999

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As far as we know Homo sapiens has been around for only about 300 000 years. Do you think it's inconceivable that within a (relatively) short space of time, we will not be able to build and despatch probes that have advanced AI and are capable of self-replication to explore the galaxy?

No, the "distance/time & communication equation" is of much less relevance to such probes - which are possibly the most likely way any civilization would explore the galaxy (given our current understanding of physics and the impossibility of traveling/communicating faster than light speed).
(It doesn't matter if we develop self-replicating probes, we likely won't be around to hear the return communications, because our civilisation will be dead due to the thousands or muliples thereof light years of distance that is postulated between intelligent life) (the only way to overcome that is through technology that can break light speed communication & light speed travel of which light speed travel is certainly not currently possible even).
 

oceansize

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(It doesn't matter if we develop self-replicating probes, we likely won't be around to hear the return communications, because our civilisation will be dead due to the thousands or muliples thereof light years of distance that is postulated between intelligent life) (the only way to overcome that is through technology that can break light speed communication & light speed travel of which light speed travel is certainly not currently possible even).
If there are such probes (and the universe - and potential civilisations - was around for approx. 10 billion years before our sun formed) then it is likely that such probes would still be extant after whatever civilizations had initially launched them and leave traces (communications, evidence of mining, whatever) for us to notice. But where is everybody?
 

Robbo99999

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If there are such probes (and the universe - and potential civilisations - was around for approx. 10 billion years before our sun formed) then it is likely that such probes would still be extant after whatever civilizations had initially launched them and leave traces (communications, evidence of mining, whatever) for us to notice. But where is everybody?
"If they made them & if they were viable over that time period of repeated replication (think cancer?)", but probably futile to make them in the first place for the reasons I mentioned, which might prevent them from bothering making them in the first place. But you know, I don't have a lot of stake in this because it's not my main thing, I'm just thinking it through.
 

oceansize

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"If they made them & if they were viable over that time period of replication", but probably futile to make them in the first place for the reasons I mentioned, which might prevent them from bothering making them in the first place. But you know, I don't have a lot of stake in this because it's not my main thing, I'm just thinking it through.
So, it was entirely futile for the Voyager probes to carry details of humans (including our music!) and the location of the star our planet orbits, but we still did it anyway.
 

Robbo99999

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So, it was entirely futile for the Voyager probes to carry details of humans (including our music!) and the location of the star our planet orbits, but we still did it anyway.
Good point, yeah. There are still the barriers of light speed in terms of travel & communication which means delays of perhaps many many multiples of thousands of years between communications & discoveries..... (at which point the civilisation is likely dead)

EDIT: and combined with the concern that self-replicating probes can be viable over that length of time (cancer? bit/manufacturing error) whilst also being in a position to communicate back over such an obscenely long distance, etc.
 
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oceansize

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Good point, yeah. There are still the barriers of light speed in terms of travel & communication which means delays of perhaps many many multiples of thousands of years between communications & discoveries..... (at which point the civilisation is likely dead)
Which is piffling in terms of the age of the universe. As Doodski said -
I think with the size and quantity of solar systems and such that it's obvious that aliens will exist.
So, why hasn't one of these (likely) many sources of alien life not left an observable mark? As I said, it's not inconceivable for AI drones to populate the galaxy in a relatively short space of time and leave traces.

btw, I'm not disagreeing that it seems likely that there is life out there... Fermi was much brighter than I am and it left him perplexed!
 

Robbo99999

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Which is piffling in terms of the age of the universe. As Doodski said -

So, why hasn't one of these (likely) many sources of alien life not left an observable mark? As I said, it's not inconceivable for AI drones to populate the galaxy in a relatively short space of time and leave traces.

btw, I'm not disagreeing that it seems likely that there is life out there... Fermi was much brighter than I am and it left him perplexed!
I'm not that certain that it's easy for AI drones to populate the universe from a curious & advanced species. I think there would be replicating problems that would ultimately prevent such devices from populating the universe over thousands of years - which they would need to do in order to encounter intelligent life. So that part is ignoring the longevity of the initial civilisation that sent it, but as you rightly say we sent out Voyager anyway (even though it's not the same thing). No, but I'm less certain that self-replicating drones can replicate indefinitely without fault creeping in (cancer in biological terms, bit error in machine terms, and additionally bad luck physical resource terms if they don't come across their required replication resources).

I'd probably agree that artificial drones are likely to be the first thing we come across, but I don't hold masses of faith in that & the surrounding viability of that communication for the reasons I've mentioned re the multiples of thousands of light years distance (with communication speed being speed of light (radio) and physical flight being many times slower than lightspeed, combined with relatively short longevity of civilisations.) My brain is probably exhausted on this topic unless it receives inspiration!
 

oceansize

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I'm not that certain that it's easy for AI drones to populate the universe from a curious & advanced species. I think there would be replicating problems that would ultimately prevent such devices from populating the universe over thousands of years - which they would need to do in order to encounter intelligent life. So that part is ignoring the longevity of the initial civilisation that sent it, but as you rightly say we sent out Voyager anyway (even though it's not the same thing). No, but I'm less certain that self-replicating drones can replicate indefinitely without fault creeping in (cancer in biological terms, bit error in machine terms, and additionally bad luck physical resource terms if they don't come across their required replication resources).

I'd probably agree that artificial drones are likely to be the first thing we come across, but I don't hold masses of faith in that & the surrounding viability of that communication for the reasons I've mentioned re the multiples of thousands of light years distance (with communication speed being speed of light (radio) and physical flight being many times slower than lightspeed, combined with relatively short longevity of civilisations.) My brain is probably exhausted on this topic unless it receives inspiration!
Or, possibly, a form of evolution?

Given how hazardous space is to (biological) life and the time/distance involved in sub-lightspeed interstellar travel, maybe we shouldn't be looking for little green men?
 

jkasch

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I figure anything that's advanced enough to get here can have its way with us. So, no need to worry about it.

These recent reports by "whistleblowers" stating that the government has several crashed alien spacecraft seem like BS to me. We're supposed to believe they can travel billions of miles or warp time and space, but they're not reliable. :rolleyes: Not buying it.
 

oceansize

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I figure anything that's advanced enough to get here can have its way with us. So, no need to worry about it.

These recent reports by "whistleblowers" stating that the government has several crashed alien spacecraft seems like BS to me. We're supposed to believe they can travel billions of miles or warp time and space, but they're not reliable. :rolleyes: Not buying it.
It's interesting, in that they are "credible" sources. But, it's all still hearsay.
 

JeffS7444

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Man, I miss Art Bell on Coast To Coast AM radio sometimes.

What if we are the most advanced technological civilization the universe has ever known? So many ways that advanced life forms could have evolved elsewhere, but gone extinct, or simply never developed technology.
 
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