Rogers LS3/5a (BBC) Speaker Review

[MAB]

I wish people on this forum would stop obsessing over the original erroneous price quoted in this review. No new commercial LS3/5a sells for $5000 (forget the absurd "white belly" Hong Kong prices and the equally absurd "Kingswood Warren" prices). They range in price from $2000 (Mobile Fidelity/Falcon Silver) to about $3200 (Falcon Gold Badge). That's pretty much spot on the inflation line posted above. Whether you consider that inflation-adjusted price worth it is a matter of personal choice. I don't think 90% of the stuff passing itself off as "High End" is worth it, but that's just my opinion.

I hope Amir will correct his price estimate in the first post on this thread so we don't waste any more valuable oxygen complaining about it!

They always seemed expensive to me, even in the ‘80s when I was in sales. So $2000 to $3200 sounds expensive.

At least there is uniform agreement on all other aspects of this speaker.

 

[MattHooper]

Naturally. They didn’t become popular because a lot of people have broadcast vans, but because they are (serendipitously) good at something they weren’t designed for. Their standout feature (IMO) is stereo presentation.

That makes sense to me.

 

[thewas]

I wish people on this forum would stop obsessing over the original erroneous price quoted in this review. No new commercial LS3/5a sells for $5000 (forget the absurd "white belly" Hong Kong prices and the equally absurd "Kingswood Warren" prices). They range in price from $2000 (Mobile Fidelity/Falcon Silver) to about $3200 (Falcon Gold Badge). That's pretty much spot on the inflation line posted above. Whether you consider that inflation-adjusted price worth it is a matter of personal choice. I don't think 90% of the stuff passing itself off as "High End" is worth it, but that's just my opinion.

I hope Amir will correct his price estimate in the first post on this thread so we don't waste any more valuable oxygen complaining about it!

Official distributor pair price of the Rogers currently in Germany is 4600€ which today was 5017 US$.

Rogers | Rogers LS3/5a Classic 15 Ohm

Classic Rogers LS3/5a 15 Ohm Klassischer Rogers LS3/5a 15 Ohm - BBC-Lizenz. Rogers - über siebzig Jahre Spitzenleistung. Seit über…

www.mediabit-vertrieb.de

 

[amirm]

No new commercial LS3/5a sells for $5000 (forget the absurd "white belly" Hong Kong prices and the equally absurd "Kingswood Warren" prices).

I am going by prices I see in reviews of Rogers LS3/5a. They are generally in the range I put in the review. Here is an example: https://www.lbtechreviews.com/test/speakers/rogers-ls3-5a

That is actually over $5,000.

There is also a review in Absolute Sound that gives the price I put in the review text. I just looked and it says it is "special edition" so maybe the regular is a bit cheaper: https://www.theabsolutesound.com/ar...a-classic-15-ohm-special-edition-loudspeaker/

These are sold through dealers so hard to get an exact price.

 

[theREALdotnet]

Official distributor pair price of the Rogers currently in Germany is 4600€ which today was 5017 US$.

Rogers | Rogers LS3/5a Classic 15 Ohm

Classic Rogers LS3/5a 15 Ohm Klassischer Rogers LS3/5a 15 Ohm - BBC-Lizenz. Rogers - über siebzig Jahre Spitzenleistung. Seit über…

www.mediabit-vertrieb.de

That price is absurd, and shame on Rogers for trying to milk the 15 ohm collector craze (that is not substantiated by performance). Other accredited manufacturers charge half that for their 11 ohm speakers.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

I don't think 90% of the stuff passing itself off as "High End" is worth it, but that's just my opinion.

You're not alone in that opinion.

Jim

 

[Galliardist]

I am going by prices I see in reviews of Rogers LS3/5a. They are generally in the range I put in the review. Here is an example: https://www.lbtechreviews.com/test/speakers/rogers-ls3-5a

View attachment 328911

That is actually over $5,000.

There is also a review in Absolute Sound that gives the price I put in the review text. I just looked and it says it is "special edition" so maybe the regular is a bit cheaper: https://www.theabsolutesound.com/ar...a-classic-15-ohm-special-edition-loudspeaker/

These are sold through dealers so hard to get an exact price.

Really, I'd say the correct price for the purpose of the review should be the one you're likely to pay on the US second hand market for the vintage model, and I guess that would be a price in the US. I don't expect you to spend hours finding that though, and differences of opinion can always be added to the comment (and have).

The price for a lot of the new ones is going to depend on the price of making copies of the drivers and then bringing the response in line with the licence requirements. As I see it, the revival models and the different "originals" have to be treated on their own terms, just because of the age difference.

 

[Galliardist]

I wish people on this forum would stop obsessing over the original erroneous price quoted in this review. No new commercial LS3/5a sells for $5000 (forget the absurd "white belly" Hong Kong prices and the equally absurd "Kingswood Warren" prices). They range in price from $2000 (Mobile Fidelity/Falcon Silver) to about $3200 (Falcon Gold Badge). That's pretty much spot on the inflation line posted above. Whether you consider that inflation-adjusted price worth it is a matter of personal choice. I don't think 90% of the stuff passing itself off as "High End" is worth it, but that's just my opinion.

I hope Amir will correct his price estimate in the first post on this thread so we don't waste any more valuable oxygen complaining about it!

The new Rogers is built to a different version (15 Ohm) to the others on the market, People who like this stuff will pay more accordingly, both for the brand name and the different spec.

Well, maybe they won't... but the market for these are rich Chinese audiophiles and a very few hardcore fans. Other audiophiles wanting the "sound" will just buy the Falcons, and the BBC licence terms get them something good enough.

 

[Galliardist]

Naturally. They didn’t become popular because a lot of people have broadcast vans, but because they are (serendipitously) good at something they weren’t designed for. Their standout feature (IMO) is stereo presentation.

Back in the day... buying BBC licensed speakers gave you good driver matching, which leads on to other good things in terms of presentation.

Specifications at the time told us that normal speakers were matched to plus or minus 3dB and sometimes even higher, and usually matched the spec of the tweeter in use. I was told that it was quite common for KEF speakers of the time using versions of the T27 tweeter - and that was quite a few of them - to be poor in that department.

If modern LS3/5As still have that advantage over current designs of speakers, something that should have improved over the decades hasn't; and measuring one sample as happens here is not telling the whole story if its pair is actually quite different.

 

[amirm]

Really, I'd say the correct price for the purpose of the review should be the one you're likely to pay on the US second hand market for the vintage model, and I guess that would be a price in the US.

I was very clear in the review that the price is for new: "This is a review, listening tests and detailed measurements of a vintage Rogers L3/5a monitor implementation licensed from BBC with the same name. It is on kind load from a member. New, it costs US $4895 a pair."

When something is in production, I don't give second hand prices. Such is the case here.

 

[Galliardist]

I was very clear in the review that the price is for new: "This is a review, listening tests and detailed measurements of a vintage Rogers L3/5a monitor implementation licensed from BBC with the same name. It is on kind load from a member. New, it costs US $4895 a pair."

When something is in production, I don't give second hand prices. Such is the case here.

Generally, I'd agree with that stance. However, this particular case is a bit different. Being a 15Ohm version, it's a bit like introducing a version 2, 30 years later.

 

[NoMoFoNo]

Naturally. They didn’t become popular because a lot of people have broadcast vans, but because they are (serendipitously) good at something they weren’t designed for. Their standout feature (IMO) is stereo presentation.

But they aren't, which is the point of this thread and the work done by Amir to confirm their poor performance. This thread could become an exhibit of the power of sighted listening, expectation bias and audiophile 'pack' mentality. We've all listened to the well-equipped audiophile crowd wax lyrically about the LS3/5a for many years now. It turns out they aren't magical after all.

 

[NoMoFoNo]

That price is absurd, and shame on Rogers for trying to milk the 15 ohm collector craze (that is not substantiated by performance). Other accredited manufacturers charge half that for their 11 ohm speakers.

Right, so $2500 for poorly performing itty bitty box speakers. Nostalgia is POWERFUL isn't it?

 

[sergeauckland]

Rogers International Ltd (founded in 1947) was sold like so many companies to investors, in 1975 it was sold to an UK investment company called Swisstone, and that company was sold in 1993 to a holding called Wo Kee Hong Holdings (a big electronics holding) who run it from Hong Kong, but keep a part of the production (the historical models) in the UK. The company you refer to is the UK front of that chinese company, and that front does not have any capital by itself. This is a common bussiness practice, as the only thing that UK company does is manage the Roger brand for that Hongkongese holding. It does not make profit or has capital in the UK, it's all in Hong Kong now. Many historic UK companies are managed like that now, not only in audio.

Whilst that is true, if a company is owned by different people, with no connection to the original owners and engineering talent, operating from different premises in a different country, how can that claim to have a legacy going back decades? It becomes just a brand name with no connection to the original.

Like MG cars or pretty much any beer brand...brewed under license, my arse!

S

 

[Mnyb]

There were other deisgns in the end of 1970s that would be rather good today and are sought after in the second hand marker. Below the Audio Pro A4-14.

My dad used the A4-14 as main monitors in the video editing studio he had back then, with 1" SONY tape machines etc ( when everything shrunk down to be in a laptop they used genelec ) childhood memories for me .

 

[Mnyb]

With the choices available in 2023 I wouldn't pay $350 for these. I cannot believe that posters defend these in any performance-based sense in 2023.

Further, I'm not particularly impressed by what the BBC was up to back then. I suppose other European broadcasters, not to mention the Americans, were using what, soup cans and string to check for audio quality on broadcasts? If anything, I'd want to know what the American broadcasters, the ones who had to compete against each other, were doing with technology. The emotionality that hangs in the air over 'British audio' is so strange considering actual performance.

SR (Swedish Radio ) transitions from various stuff like Goodmans eleganzia II and some ESL 57 to Yamaha NS1000 everywhere .

Gues who had a pair of goodmans in his boy room

 

[Thomas_A]

My dad used the A4-14 as main monitors in the video editing studio he had back then, with 1" SONY tape machines etc ( when everything shrunk down to be in a laptop they used genelec ) childhood memories for me .

I have been on the fence getting a pair when they have been for sale. I just wonder how common the updated "pro" version with XLR is? I have never seen it on sale.

 

[amirm]

Review of SoundArtist LS3/5A clone just posted: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../soundartist-bbc-ls3-5a-speaker-review.49833/

Makes the Rogers like a very good buy despite its much higher cost!

 

[Frank Dernie]

Mine were £199 new when I bought then in the '80s and I sold them on ebay for well over £1000 iirc. when the LS50 came out.

 

[Philberish]

From what I've read, that seems likely.

People demand the authentic BBC LS3/5A experience because of all the hype in the 70s and afterward. It's simply a name brand of its own. Why charge so much? Well, why not if people will pay it?

It's strange to think of a popular speaker being built to a government spec, but I think that really is part of the appeal.


Obviously their goal is nostalgic enjoyment of vintage broadcast monitoring equipment, not MUSIC!

Having seen these measurements now, though, I sort of understand the appeal. This must be the infamous "BBC dip"? (Per post #104 this is not the BBC dip, I stand educated!) I have found that cutting those frequencies can make something sound like the bass has solidified, honkiness and boxiness go away, and the midrange is clear and clean. That is, when there is too much energy between about 200 and 500hz, it can be unpleasant. This speaker makes sure to never encounter that issue. So I am not surprised that some people fall in love with this (technically very wrong) tonality.

Past 1Khz it's not amazing but it's not a disaster. So the speaker overall sort of creates a very specific kind of tonality that at least makes some sense to me.

Of course I'd never buy one, but at least it's not totally baffling IMO.

Just a small point that's maybe worth correcting here. The BBC is (partly) publicly funded but it is, and always has been, completely independent of the UK government (often much to the annoyance of said government - especially if on the right of the political spectrum). The LS3/5A was designed in-house in response to an internal need for a compact OB truck monitor. Back in the 70s, the BBC designed and built a lot of its own hardware, so this wasn't remotely unusual. The granting of licences to manufacture it commercially was a neat way both of ramping up production to satisfy the numbers needed in-house, and also of recouping its in-house development budget. And whatever you think of its performance measured by today's standards, I think there's little doubt the LS3/5A fundamentally influenced a whole class of compact high-performance speakers.

Over and out
Phil