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Guys, I an tired to argue. Count it as amirm said “you lost this battle”, period.

Wrong in what? I have described both types of DACs, so what is your point? “Like most DACs do?”? Ok, no problem, I can take it back.

My point us simple - we can not rely on measurements, performed at 0 dB FS. They are too close to the level of clipping and even a good “passing” unit can give us bad results due to different type of fluctuations. We also can not approximate such results for the same product, because tolerance...

Yes, and the square wave math rated to +3 dB FS. Please read this article if Tham’s article defining 0 dB FS+ signals as “illegal” is not good enough https://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/the-case-for-not-going-above-0-dbfs-for-digital-playback-systems

Regarding testing at and above 0dB FS ref the links above - Nielsen’s document, and Chris Tham’s article. Also ref Rane’s article - regarding 0 dB FS: https://rane.com/note169.html Such as 0 dB FS is just at the limit of clipping, it us so easy to pass it and get that clipping just due to the...

Check 8.5.1, it is available here https://www.ak.tu-berlin.de/fileadmin/a0135/Unterrichtsmaterial/KT-Labor_WS0809/1_ADDA/aes17.pdf Yes, it is an old version 1998-2004

It is not true. See the link above - even 8801 is different, it uses +6 dB amplification after the DAC chips. 7701 per it’s service manual uses AK4458 DAC chips, which are different than used in 8802/8802A/8805 DAC chips AK4490 (all three use unity gain after the DAC chip). Also 7701 uses +6 dB...

No need, thank you. I am gone.

Hmm, I was under impression that it was a technical discussion. Battles happen between enemies ... do you consider all forum subscribers who dare to argue with you as enemies and fight with them winning your “battles”, or just me?

Ok, it seems you are not tired anymore, I have rested as well, let’s continue. Melokin (let’s call him using his brand’s name, I don't remember the guy’s name) neither designs the USB to i2s convertor nor writes the drivers for it. He designed the hardware and provided an option to install...

I believe in proper measurements, not in ones performed against standards, manufacturing specifications, and based on some “typically used” levels. Thanks for your time. I am done.

I have tired to argue with you as well. I just pointed you to a standard, and you don’t care - you know better than AES. I am not claiming that it is state-of the art in it’s DAC and pre-amplification, no way as it is using second level DACs (top ones are AK4497 and ESS9038PRO at the moment)...

Wrong conclusion based on a wrong measurement. I don’t own 8805, I own 8802A, but I have service manuals for both units and can compare them. The DAC and analog output part is identical. This is why I decided not to upgrade at this moment - I have no need in HEOS. But I listen to my system...

Yes, it is a misunderstanding on your side. There is no de-facto standard, there is a “typically used level”, which is overused by the manufacturer’s specification. The specification is the LAW, not a “typically used level”. Didn’you notice? They are talking about the professional audio, where...

I don’t listen at max anyway, this is true. If your DAC has a level adjustment (like most DAC do), there will be no problem, but why do we need that amount of headroom if it is not used? If the DAC doesn’t have a volume adjustment, it could be a problem - overloading of the input stage of that...

There is no dust as soon as we start talking about multichannel formats. For stereo - maybe, but your “dust” has nothing to do with the real life, the reserve in DAC is not required for multichannel amplifiers, and not even for multichannel pre-amplifiers. This is true ONLY for an amp with...

I already know that “secret”, and even used NOS DAC some time ago, but found upsampling DACs like dCS for example, way better sounding. Thanks though.

Thanks for your detailed response, Amir. So you position yourself as a Supreme Court judge who makes a final decision what level a manufacturer shall use in it’s product specification, and your judgment is based on comparison of AV processors with DACs (i.e. “apples” and “oranges”)? Who gave you...

Thanks, I understood already. Logically the FR bandwidth shall be limited at 22.05 kHz with pretty sharp roll off if you use the input sampling frequency 44.1kHz. The reason why you’ve got higher FR with slow roll off could be something like Pioneer’s Legato Link...

Ok I will tell you a secret - to do the Audyssey processing at 48kHz the AV processor downsamples (and probably upsamples in the case of 44.1kHz) the input signal to 48 kHz, no matter what was the sampling rate at the input. I am not sure what is the sampling rate with Audyssey turned off, but I...