Future Sound of Audio

[fas42]

Surely one of main reasons for "controlled directivity" designs is to create a 'hotspot', thus minimising the effects of the room. The Beolab 90 explicitly provides settings for this purpose. Quality is reputedly highest in narrow mode, but a wide mode is provided for cocktail parties.

I am very dubious of the notion of "optimisation" which, it seems to me, is an audiophile myth. There is no configuration of settings that gives a universal "optimum". The Beolab 90 does the opposite: it contains the equivalent of several conventional audio systems so as to allow (or place the burden on) the user to select the system they prefer for a particular situation, or even a particular track.

My type of optimising is reducing distortion artifacts which allow one to audibly locate the speaker drivers - most systems aren't capable of this quality in raw form, so few people have experienced or are aware of this behaviour. The field of ASA explains what is going on in human hearing that allows this to happen - the subjective experience is that the illusion of the captured musical event overrides the room related effects - one can literally walk around one of the speakers without losing the illusion.

 

[Cosmik]

The Kii is a bunch of off-the-shelf modules and drivers in a box plus some straightforward DSP programming. I am fairly confident a number of hobbyist speaker DIYs could make something reasonably equivalent in their garage. The cabinet and more involved DSP would make something like the Beolab a larger task but something like the prototypes with simpler cabinets and external electronics is not only doable but I would expect likely to appear as DIY projects in the near future.

Engineers experienced in DSP is a growing requirement at speaker companies that do most design work internally. KEF advertised for one earlier this year. Other speaker companies organise themselves to use external design teams like those provided by Karl-Heinz Fink. Whatever the approach there is nothing about the design of the Kii that would preclude any speaker company from adopting it if it looked profitable to do so. But how many Kii-like speakers would speaker companies like Harbeth or Spendor sell into the market segment they have developed for their brand? And what would happen to the perception of their brand if they did so?


There isn't a perfect polar response and so anyone that agrees with the statement would have a rather weak grasp of the subject or, since we are talking about expensive audiophile hardware, have something to sell to those that have a weak grasp of the subject.

As you mentioned earlier, a cardioid radiation pattern has been an option for speakers for a long time but it has not proved particular popular in the market. The downside is that it costs significantly more to match the SPL of a conventional speaker and the speaker is likely to be significantly larger and more complicated. The upside is a significant reduction in the influence of the rear wall and driving the room modes differently and likely "better" in the absence of room treatment and a leaning towards imaging rather than spaciousness/envelopment. Even with a leaning towards the latter the cardioid radiation pattern might still come out in front depending on the room acoustics. But how interested in this sort of thing are the majority of audiophiles opting for small expensive 2 way ported speakers on expensive stands?

As shown earlier, the Kii does not have enough cone area to provide clean bass at the lowest frequencies. Like most stereo speakers in typical rooms in the home it will almost certainly need to be used with distributed subwoofers to obtain high quality deep bass. The beolabs look to have the cone area but will still require distributed subwoofers, possibly less in number, to help control the peaks and valleys in the room response for high quality deep bass.

DSP is removing the mystery from audio - it is becoming clear that "high fidelity" does sound best. Valves, vinyl, passive crossovers were once the highest fidelity available, and even after digital audio appeared in the 80s, the ubiquitous passive, ported speakers were so bad that digital audio ended up sounding even worse than what went before. I never really enjoyed the sound of an audio system between approximately 1978 and 2011 - which was when I first heard DSP-based, sealed active speakers!

As you say, they are easy to create, because they are 'straight'. The aim is for the output to reproduce the recording and nothing else, and we now have the tools available to do it. In the old days, artistry was required in order to find an acceptable compromise within the limited possibilities of the passive crossover. Many people shied away from designing three-ways because of the complexity of the task and the extra layer of imperfection it imposed, and they had to use ports because everyone else did. Suddenly people are free to do it properly: three-way speakers with sealed enclosures. The sad thing is that hi-fi is now such a niche interest, and the vinyl myth so strong, that hardly anyone will notice this 'quantum leap' in audio quality.

 

[Purité Audio]

The Kii is a bunch of off-the-shelf modules and drivers in a box plus some straightforward DSP programming. I am fairly confident a number of hobbyist speaker DIYs could make something reasonably equivalent in their garage. The cabinet and more involved DSP would make something like the Beolab a larger task but something like the prototypes with simpler cabinets and external electronics is not only doable but I would expect likely to appear as DIY projects in the near future.

Engineers experienced in DSP is a growing requirement at speaker companies that do most design work internally. KEF advertised for one earlier this year. Other speaker companies organise themselves to use external design teams like those provided by Karl-Heinz Fink. Whatever the approach there is nothing about the design of the Kii that would preclude any speaker company from adopting it if it looked profitable to do so. But how many Kii-like speakers would speaker companies like Harbeth or Spendor sell into the market segment they have developed for their brand? And what would happen to the perception of their brand if they did so?


There isn't a perfect polar response and so anyone that agrees with the statement would have a rather weak grasp of the subject or, since we are talking about expensive audiophile hardware, have something to sell to those that have a weak grasp of the subject.

As you mentioned earlier, a cardioid radiation pattern has been an option for speakers for a long time but it has not proved particular popular in the market. The downside is that it costs significantly more to match the SPL of a conventional speaker and the speaker is likely to be significantly larger and more complicated. The upside is a significant reduction in the influence of the rear wall and driving the room modes differently and likely "better" in the absence of room treatment and a leaning towards imaging rather than spaciousness/envelopment. Even with a leaning towards the latter the cardioid radiation pattern might still come out in front depending on the room acoustics. But how interested in this sort of thing are the majority of audiophiles opting for small expensive 2 way ported speakers on expensive stands?

As shown earlier, the Kii does not have enough cone area to provide clean bass at the lowest frequencies. Like most stereo speakers in typical rooms in the home it will almost certainly need to be used with distributed subwoofers to obtain high quality deep bass. The beolabs look to have the cone area but will still require distributed subwoofers, possibly less in number, to help control the peaks and valleys in the room response for high quality deep bass.

Deep bass is excellent through the Kiis, I wait with baited breath for your 'DIY' version!
Shall we expect it anytime soon?
Keith

 

[dallasjustice]

Amir,
Can you add the option to hug a post? I don't think like is strong enough for me.

Michael.

The Kii is a bunch of off-the-shelf modules and drivers in a box plus some straightforward DSP programming. I am fairly confident a number of hobbyist speaker DIYs could make something reasonably equivalent in their garage. The cabinet and more involved DSP would make something like the Beolab a larger task but something like the prototypes with simpler cabinets and external electronics is not only doable but I would expect likely to appear as DIY projects in the near future.

Engineers experienced in DSP is a growing requirement at speaker companies that do most design work internally. KEF advertised for one earlier this year. Other speaker companies organise themselves to use external design teams like those provided by Karl-Heinz Fink. Whatever the approach there is nothing about the design of the Kii that would preclude any speaker company from adopting it if it looked profitable to do so. But how many Kii-like speakers would speaker companies like Harbeth or Spendor sell into the market segment they have developed for their brand? And what would happen to the perception of their brand if they did so?


There isn't a perfect polar response and so anyone that agrees with the statement would have a rather weak grasp of the subject or, since we are talking about expensive audiophile hardware, have something to sell to those that have a weak grasp of the subject.

As you mentioned earlier, a cardioid radiation pattern has been an option for speakers for a long time but it has not proved particular popular in the market. The downside is that it costs significantly more to match the SPL of a conventional speaker and the speaker is likely to be significantly larger and more complicated. The upside is a significant reduction in the influence of the rear wall and driving the room modes differently and likely "better" in the absence of room treatment and a leaning towards imaging rather than spaciousness/envelopment. Even with a leaning towards the latter the cardioid radiation pattern might still come out in front depending on the room acoustics. But how interested in this sort of thing are the majority of audiophiles opting for small expensive 2 way ported speakers on expensive stands?

As shown earlier, the Kii does not have enough cone area to provide clean bass at the lowest frequencies. Like most stereo speakers in typical rooms in the home it will almost certainly need to be used with distributed subwoofers to obtain high quality deep bass. The beolabs look to have the cone area but will still require distributed subwoofers, possibly less in number, to help control the peaks and valleys in the room response for high quality deep bass.

 

[Thomas savage]

Amir,
Can you add the option to hug a post? I don't think like is strong enough for me.

Michael.

Yea but once you hug it you know you will want more....

 

[Purité Audio]

Delivered a pair to a mastering engineer today, I bet now he wished he'd waited for HG's DIY pair.
Keith

 

[hvbias]

Deep bass is excellent through the Kiis, I wait with baited breath for your 'DIY' version!
Shall we expect it anytime soon?
Keith

Heaven forbid some of those peasants build a speaker and give out the design for free Ultimately I agree with you, it will probably be a bit before DIY'ers can come up with a DSP speaker that can do various radiation patterns like the Kii/Beolab with the press of a button. Right now there are some fine DIY speaker designs out there with smooth/constant directivity with no DSP allowing the use of DSP to make them even better.

Purite you need to stop putting guys like Bruno up on a pedestal. Most of us can respect what he is doing to advance hi-fi, but at these prices they will make absolutely no difference to general fidelity. That sort of thing needs to happen from Sony, Pioneer, and the other big electronics names selling things at realistic prices at stores people are familiar with. I am glad we get this from the video industry.

 

[Purité Audio]

I respect any engineer that is trying to advance the art, Bruno, Geoff Martin, I don't have a great deal of respect for fancy box stuffers, perhaps you do?
Keith.

 

[Thomas savage]

As I understand it Bruno developed good compact switching amps.. Now he is out on his own it's good business to broaden your product range. It makes perfect sense to develop a speaker that uses his technology.. Why leave it to others to reap what you sowed..?

It has technical merit as far as I understand, whether it communicates the music in a rewarding way is another matter, one for ourselves as individuals to asses.

Worth a listen I think

 

[Sal1950]

I respect any engineer that is trying to advance the art, Bruno, Geoff Martin, I don't have a great deal of respect for fancy box stuffers, perhaps you do?
Keith.

Keith, I highly respect your opinion and know that the speakers your talking about must sound amazing.
But these gentleman aren't the only knives in the drawer. There are others in the industry just as devoted and serious about the products they design and to write everyone else off as "box stuffers" is unfair.
Earlier I mentioned some products coming from Harman that you wrote off just a easily. I know of no one who as put more research, time and money into speaker development to advance the SOTA than these people. The reviews of pieces like the M2 and Revel Salon line have been near unanimous in their praise.
My only point here is that I believe your hard position that "all else is gaslight" to be somewhat exaggerated and really is doing your case a dis-service.
Just my 2 cents

 

[hvbias]

I don't have a great deal of respect for fancy box stuffers, perhaps you do?
Keith.

I think my post was saying the opposite! No I do not have a great deal of respect for selling a NC1200 module amp for $15k in a fancy box. Or selling the module to OEMs and forcing them to charge a silly minimum price ($10k?) in order to use them.

 

[Purité Audio]

Damn capitalism!
Keith

 

[Purité Audio]

The Kiis don't have an on or off switch, they remain in standby until they sense a signal, the LEDs then turn from red to blue/green.


Keith

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Without hearing a note, I admire the Kii design because it is compact, user-friendly, and is using DSP in a very useful, intuitive way that requires no effort on the part of the user. The engineers among us may consider it sad, or even a bit pathetic, but most users won't load up a piece of software, measure the room and tweak the EQ. They'll want to place them, plug them in, then, at most, toggle though modes until it sounds best. When DSP is effective with an operation that simple, it will become broadly accepted. The Kiis and Beolabs are a great step in that direction, and the first step is, as always, expensive. They won't be broadly adopted; they're too pricey. But I think they'll eventually have ancestors that will change consumer audio for the better. I applaud their designers.

Too many people designing systems and software still seem to be missing the fact that the user interface is the most important element. The most elegant code, the most robust functionality, is useless if the user doesn't get to it.

Tim

 

[Cosmik]

The engineers among us may consider it sad, or even a bit pathetic, but most users won't load up a piece of software, measure the room and tweak the EQ. They'll want to place them, plug them in, then, at most, toggle though modes until it sounds best. When DSP is effective with an operation that simple, it will become broadly accepted. The Kiis and Beolabs are a great step in that direction, and the first step is, as always, expensive. They won't be broadly adopted; they're too pricey. But I think they'll eventually have ancestors that will change consumer audio for the better. I applaud their designers.

Too many people designing systems and software still seem to be missing the fact that the user interface is the most important element. The most elegant code, the most robust functionality, is useless if the user doesn't get to it.

I think there is a 'cognitive dissonance' between hardware that appears utilitarian and yet produces beautiful music. Some of the obsession with measuring rooms and OTT DSP user interfaces may be compensation for the loss of overtly 'high end' amplifiers and vinyl-related gubbins..?

Personally, I think I am ready to buy two speakers (hopefully cheaper than Beolab 90s) and connect them to the WiFi and start streaming stuff controlled by a phone or iPad. As you say, a few settings for different placements will be just fine. My experience with not-quite-current generations of DSP-based speakers tells me that this is not going to be "mid fi", but something rather better.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I think there is a 'cognitive dissonance' between hardware that appears utilitarian and yet produces beautiful music. Some of the obsession with measuring rooms and OTT DSP user interfaces may be compensation for the loss of overtly 'high end' amplifiers and vinyl-related gubbins..?

Agreed, though I hope for the sake of the world, this kind of OCD self-delusion is mostly limited to the "high-end" audiophile community.

Personally, I think I am ready to buy two speakers (hopefully cheaper than Beolab 90s) and connect them to the WiFi and start streaming stuff controlled by a phone or iPad. As you say, a few settings for different placements will be just fine. My experience with not-quite-current generations of DSP-based speakers tells me that this is not going to be "mid fi", but something rather better.

I've had the wireless computer/iPad/Phone thing going for several years. Love it. But I'd love to find active speakers that will switch from maximizing the sweet spot to maximizing the room in a click. At a lot less than the Beolabs, or even the Kiis. And I'd still like to have some EQ control. I have a lot of beloved music recorded in the early, grunge build-up days of multi track, or just not recorded very well. I'd love to be able to create a couple of pre-sets of my own to dampen their sins. All of the above is actually much more important to me than bass control, or even speakers capable of producing deep bass. It's even more important to me than digital compression during mastering, up to a point.

Tim