Audio stutters with USB Dacs on Macbook M1 Pro

[jayadubya]

Dang it. FWIW, I've been in a long-term, tiresome set of calls with Apple Support. They are very nice, and each time it seems to be getting closer to "We're building the report for our engineers" and I can sometimes tell they are having a live chat with an engineering group, because they'll come back with random questions (one agent was transparent about this - maybe they've got a slack-type tool internally where support folks can chat with devs).

Annnnyway, she strongly encouraged me to suggest anyone else having the issue to open a ticket with apple and go through the steps. This is tedious and time-consuming, and I know a lot of folks here have already done this. She did say (and I believe her) that their internal database showed no other support requests that had collected quite a bit of data. I find that hard to believe, but thought I'd share this all the same.

I told this support agent I fully expect to be in their support system right up to the final day of my warranty in September.... Not fun.

 

[pengin15]

Out of interest - what data rate (bit depth / sample rate) are people having this problem using?

I use 24/48 and see no issue. Though I also have 32GB ram.

I'm on 48, but with 16GB RAM.

Annnnyway, she strongly encouraged me to suggest anyone else having the issue to open a ticket with apple and go through the steps. This is tedious and time-consuming, and I know a lot of folks here have already done this. She did say (and I believe her) that their internal database showed no other support requests that had collected quite a bit of data. I find that hard to believe, but thought I'd share this all the same.

What's the best way to go about and do this? Is this a different pipeline from Feedback Assistant? Might be worth the try.

On the same note, I'd also recommend sending an email to Craig Federighi - we've had instances where some people are successful in pushing their issues in. The chances are obviously very slim, but I'd think the more noise we make, the better our chances are that they'd bother to go and fix this issue.

EDIT:

I chatted with Apple Support earlier. My case ID was 102016746301. I took the chance to also mention my Feedback Assistant submission IDs FB12270689 and FB12192422. I'd recommend also reaching out to Apple Support mentioning my case ID and @jayadubya 's (101946331698) so they can have a clear and centralized understanding of this issue.

Please do submit a ticket. The more complaints they have on this, the better...

 

[natak22]

I just registered to say that today after several months of fighting with this problem, today after upgraded to Sonoma, I have not had any audio problems during the whole day!
ifi zen v2 + hd660s2 using tidal / youtube music on macbook pro m1pro

 

[DWPress]

I keep coming back to this post by eelpout

A shame it only leads to a download link, with source code it could potentially be ported or at least figure out what it's actually doing. Can't deduce too much from the package contents...

edit: I'm doing 24/96 with 24GB on M2 Mini - 8 channels of correction for driver EQ and active crossovers + room correction, sometimes with Dirac. The old M1 Mini with 8GB RAM started puking on my routing after some Monterey update. The pictures of routing I showed earlier in this thread were screenshots from my 2018 Intel Mini running Mojave OS to keep my Adobe CS6 Suite limping along for awhile and also Plex server but my current audio use is with the M2 Mini. Strange, but I like having both Intel and Apple silicon available for different things like VMs or a straight up Windows/Linux boot.

 

[pengin15]

A shame it only leads to a download link, with source code it could potentially be ported or at least figure out what it's actually doing. Can't deduce too much from the package contents...

edit: I'm doing 24/96 with 24GB on M2 Mini - 8 channels of correction for driver EQ and active crossovers + room correction, sometimes with Dirac. The old M1 Mini with 8GB RAM started puking on my routing after some Monterey update. The pictures of routing I showed earlier in this thread were screenshots from my 2018 Intel Mini running Mojave OS to keep my Adobe CS6 Suite limping along for awhile and also Plex server but my current audio use is with the M2 Mini. Strange, but I like having both Intel and Apple silicon available for different things like VMs or a straight up Windows/Linux boot.

The link above the GDrive link leads you straight to the github. There seems to be references to an xCode project there. Does that provide enough info?

GitHub - d-velopment/macClick

Contribute to d-velopment/macClick development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

Not a technical guy unfortunately, but a reddit post also pointed out that it "keeps the speaker busy like Quicktime did"
https://www.reddit.com/r/macbook/comments/pekuw8/_/haycgfo

 

[phoenixdogfan]

A shame it only leads to a download link, with source code it could potentially be ported or at least figure out what it's actually doing. Can't deduce too much from the package contents...

edit: I'm doing 24/96 with 24GB on M2 Mini - 8 channels of correction for driver EQ and active crossovers + room correction, sometimes with Dirac. The old M1 Mini with 8GB RAM started puking on my routing after some Monterey update. The pictures of routing I showed earlier in this thread were screenshots from my 2018 Intel Mini running Mojave OS to keep my Adobe CS6 Suite limping along for awhile and also Plex server but my current audio use is with the M2 Mini. Strange, but I like having both Intel and Apple silicon available for different things like VMs or a straight up Windows/Linux boot.

I read this thread and I'm glad I opted for a Mele Quieter 3 for my home theater server instead. I have always feared that there would be some devil in the details with converting from a Windows 11 solution for my server to a Apple Silicon M1 version, so i didn't. Now I have something that works, I'm familiar with all its quirks and know my workarounds, and I did not pay $600-800 only to find out that there was something Apple Silicon (for all its promise of superior performance) couldn't do that I absolutely needed it to do.

 

[silwynar]

What HDMI audio extractor are you guys using?
I'm thinking about going that route to finally get rid of this issue but there are so many options from super cheap to kinda expensive.
If I go from HDMI audio extractor to optical -> optical in from my Topping DX3 Pro, then it's all digital and a cheap extractor should work just as good as an expensive one, right?

 

[pengin15]

This is the exact one I use:

Amazon.com

And it works just fine, except that there's inexplicably audible sound difference between that and direct connection through USB with my DAC. It's very minor, though.

 

[silwynar]

Amir tested the Amazon Basics extractor and the digital out was perfect. Of course, the analog out was a different story, but irrelevant here.

Amazon Basics 4K HDMI Extractor Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Amazon Basics 4K HDMI extractor. Member kindly purchased and drop shipped it to me. It normally costs $22.89 but was on sale for just $5!!! The case is the standard metal one for these kinds of adapters. Power is provided with a supplied USB-A...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thanks, guess I grab this one with the next order then!
Help me out real quick though: If I extract a digital output HDMI -> optical output -> DAC digital input,
I don't get any loss in quality and the audio 'chip' / dac still handles the output to my analog speakers.
So overall, there should be no change in quality compared to my Topping DAC directly connected via USB, am I right?

 

[antcollinet]

Thanks, guess I grab this one with the next order then!
Help me out real quick though: If I extract a digital output HDMI -> optical output -> DAC digital input,
I don't get any loss in quality and the audio 'chip' / dac still handles the output to my analog speakers.
So overall, there should be no change in quality compared to my Topping DAC directly connected via USB, am I right?

Right

 

[Zek]

am I right?

Correct, the only limit is to a maximum of 24/192 audio files.

 

[nlappas]

I just registered to say that today after several months of fighting with this problem, today after upgraded to Sonoma, I have not had any audio problems during the whole day!
ifi zen v2 + hd660s2 using tidal / youtube music on macbook pro m1pro

This is promising! Can you stress test it with opening many apps and trying to max out your memory pressure? Ideally more than 14GB for your 16GB machine

 

[pengin15]

This is promising! Can you stress test it with opening many apps and trying to max out your memory pressure? Ideally more than 14GB for your 16GB machine

This is exactly what I did. Doesn't stop the stutters, unfortunately...

 

[vurt]

I have a Cayin RU6 coming in the vain hope that it'll just magically work smoothly like my Questyle M15.

This is turning into a ridiculous neverending nightmare. FFS we just want to listen to music.


EDIT: I just realized, I don't think I'm hearing this stutter with my old Harman Kardon Soundsticks. It uses a USB interface (not USB-C) and if I'm not wrong, the speakers have their own built-in DAC. Mine's plugged into a Kensington Thunderbolt 3 dock.

 

[dbourreau]

Hi!

I installed MacOS Sonoma Beta yesterday on my MacBook Pro M1 Pro (32 GB) and the stutters haven't disappeared completely but are WAAAY LESS present than before!
They only happen once in a while with high memory pressure (min. 28 GB / 32 GB).

FWIW, I use a RME Babyface Pro USB 2.0 audio interface plugged into a Belkin Thunderbolt 4 Dock Pro (it's the only thing plugged into the MacBook).

Even if it's not perfect, I'm so glad I can use the RME again

 

[Zensō]

Hi!

I installed MacOS Sonoma Beta yesterday on my MacBook Pro M1 Pro (32 GB) and the stutters haven't disappeared completely but are WAAAY LESS present than before!
They only happen once in a while with high memory pressure (min. 28 GB / 32 GB).

FWIW, I use a RME Babyface Pro USB 2.0 audio interface plugged into a Belkin Thunderbolt 4 Dock Pro (it's the only thing plugged into the MacBook).

Even if it's not perfect, I'm so glad I can use the RME again

That’s great news. I’m going to hold off on the beta for now (bit one too many times with betas), but I’m looking forward to the near-fix.

 

[dbourreau]

That’s great news. I’m going to hold off on the beta for now (bit one too many times with betas), but I’m looking forward to the near-fix.

After a few days without rebooting the Mac, it's seems that it's getting a bit worse.
I hear stuttering when memory usage is around 27 GB / 32.

Has anyone heard back from Apple Support with a real answer about this issue?

 

[gochristoph]

I've been communicating with Apple about this issue for more than a year by now. Realistically, you should ask yourself: Is there any reason to believe that the stuttering will be fixed in the future? After all, it was not fixed within one year. That‘s a long time compared to the pace at which Apple releases new futures or fixes other bugs. Therefore, I don't think it is ever gonna happen.

I suspect that one of these two things is going on:

(1) It's not fixed because they cannot fix it. It's a hardware problem and Apple tries to play it low-key with plausible deniability so that the audio stuttering does not end in a class action lawsuit. They might be able to reduce the stuttering, but it will never be fixed.

(2) It's a software problem, but really low on their priority list. Realistically, this also means that it won't be fixed. Apple has much more glaring issue to fix. For instance, Bluetooth is an absolute mess even when only using their own products such as AirPods, Magic Keyboard and Trackpad. Facetime, hand over, and screen share have been around for quite some time, but they are also a complete mess. Instead of fixing things, Apple is rolling out new features and macOS stays in a constant beta status.

It is extremely disappointing that we cannot play audio reliably with machines that have cost some of us upward of of USD 5k.

I don't think anything is gonna happen if we are not very vocal.

 

[Zensō]

I've been communicating with Apple about this issue for more than a year by now. Realistically, you should ask yourself: Is there any reason to believe that the stuttering will be fixed in the future? After all, it was not fixed within one year. That‘s a long time compared to the paxe at which Apple releases new futures or fixes other bugs. Therefore, I don't think it is ever gonna happen.

I suspect that one of these two things is going on:

(1) It's not fixed because they cannot fix it. It's a hardware problem and Apple tries to play it low-key with plausible deniability so that the audio stuttering does not end in a class action lawsuit. They might be able to reduce the stuttering, but it will never be fixed.

(2) It's a software problem, but really low on their priority list. Realistically, this also means that it won't be fixed. Apple has much more glaring issue to fix. For instance, Bluetooth is an absolute mess even when only using their own products such as AirPods, Magic Keyboard and Trackpad. Facetime, hand over, and screen share have been around for quite some time, but they are also a complete mess. Instead of fixing things, Apple is rolling out new features and macOS stays in a constant beta status.

It is extremely disappointing that we cannot play audio reliably with machines that have cost some of us upward of of USD 5k.

I don't think anything is gonna happen if we are not very vocal.

I have to wonder if the issue is at the hardware level as you’ve stated above. If so, you’re right, this will never be resolved. This wouldn’t be the first time Apple has played down a hardware flaw to avoid a recall. Grrr.

 

[vurt]

The Qudelix 5K plays music fine, as do my old Harman Kardon Soundsticks. And Elements/SoundSource seems to help by adjusting the buffer. Maybe a software solve is be possible?


After reading about the HDMI option, I had a quick google and searched the forum, but I'm guessing there's no easy way to extract audio from HDMI to a USB DAC? Cos all the HDMI splitters I see don't have USB out.