ZMF Caldera Headphone Review

[NDRQ]

They are not the same thing. A headphone gives you imaging that its outside of your ears. IEMs can't do that. And they cost more to produce.

What if i say then, that you can get a Sundara for 300 bucks and almost perfect out of the box? Or we can go higher, one can get a HD800 for half the price and that has much less problems with the FR, while the soundstage and details probably leagues better. Heck, even a HD600 has much better potential with Eq and almost perfect out of the box for the fraction of this price..

Btw as i see, you don't even try to fix that mess after 9khz, i guess probably impossible.

Anyway, thanks for the review.

 

[MacClintock]

What if i say then, that you can get a Sundara for 300 bucks and almost perfect out of the box? Or we can go higher, one can get a HD800 for half the price and that has much less problems with the FR, while the soundstage and details probably leagues better. Heck, even a HD600 has much better potential with Eq and almost perfect out of the box for the fraction of this price..

Btw as i see, you don't even try to fix that mess after 9khz, i guess probably impossible.

Anyway, thanks for the review.

By change, I own this three headphones and completely agree. The only thing your are missing out is the nice woodwork, but to enjoy this I prefer to buy nice furniture instead of badly tuned, overpriced headphones.

 

[IAtaman]

What if i say then, that you can get a Sundara for 300 bucks and almost perfect out of the box? Or we can go higher, one can get a HD800 for half the price and that has much less problems with the FR, while the soundstage and details probably leagues better. Heck, even a HD600 has much better potential with Eq and almost perfect out of the box for the fraction of this price..

Btw as i see, you don't even try to fix that mess after 9khz, i guess probably impossible.

Anyway, thanks for the review.

We will never get past this will we - equating an interest and a hobby down to price performance on a single metric. Reminds me of this game we used to play with car cards when I was a kid. No one liked the Ferrari F50 because it did not have fastest 0-100, highest top speed or the horse power. Well, if that is what is important to you, Amir recommended the $10 Sony MDR-ZX110 as an extremely accurate audiophile headphone - why don't you get yourself one of those instead of HD600 and save yourself the $290.

 

[L0rdGwyn]

Based on that info one could conclude the drivers are either from the same company or they are optically close copies.
Since you are so secretive (contrary to being an open book) about driver manufacturers... what am I to think ?

This is the very definition of jumping to conclusions, it's probably best to stop speculating unless you have a primary source of information. It isn't surprising in the slightest is that ZMF would not want to publicly disclose their driver supply chain as it presumably gives them a competitive advantage is a crowded headphone market. To fault them for not providing that information is absurd.

 

[solderdude]

Do you find it strange, given the photo's and knowing Foster is an OEM manfacturer for drivers and that he used Foster built drivers before, that I jumped to this 'conclusion' ?

It is not strange that Zach does not want his audience to know which manufacturers he uses and if he does not want to say anything about this.
For the competition (in his price segment ?) headphone manufacturers all know where they can buy their drivers and which manufacturers are willing to change the design a little on request.

Here is the Audioquest NightHawk driver b.t.w. ... it could look familiar but, of course, we cannot say it is the same driver as small changes under the hood could be there such as the voicecoil being 300ohm (not so for the below AQ driver)

Edit: besides I am not the only one who jumped to the conclusion:

A Bio-Dynamic Adventure: AudioQuest NightOwl, Fostex TH610, ZMF Eikon - Twittering Machines

Michael Lavorgna's Twittering Machines: HiFi with a twist

twitteringmachines.com

 

[_thelaughingman]

Once again, I see ASR members engaging in conversation's that are not helping the reputation of this forum. I keep seeing the same mudslinging, questioning of intent, and making wild assumptions about a product's validity based on price vs performance ratio. If an educated and well researched argument cannot be had in your reply to a post, please refrain from engaging in dialogue.

 

[L0rdGwyn]

Do you find it strange, given the photo's and knowing Foster is an OEM manfacturer for drivers, that I jumped to this 'conclusion' ?
It is not strange that Zach does not want his audience to know which manufacturers he uses and if he does not want to say anything about this.
For the competition (in his price segment ?) headphone manufacturers all know where they can buy their drivers and which manufacturers are willing to change the design a little on request.

Here is the Audioquest NightHawk driver b.t.w. ... it could look familiar but of course we cannot say it is the same driver.

Given you are considered to be a subject matter expert on this forum, the statement "The dynamic drivers appear to be made by Foster" could easily mislead its members into thinking you have primary information as to ZMF's supply chain beyond comparing photos on the internet. Yes, the drivers do look similar, they are all biocell with rubber surrounds. Beyond that, there is no definitive information to say they are made by the same OEM.

 

[solderdude]

What other manufacturer makes those type of drivers ?

 

[L0rdGwyn]

Once again, I see ASR members engaging in conversation's that are not helping the reputation of this forum. I keep seeing the same mudslinging, questioning of intent, and making wild assumptions about a product's validity based on price vs performance ratio. If an educated and well researched argument cannot be had in your reply to a post, please refrain from engaging in dialogue.

Much of this behavior is endorsed by leaders of this forum, posts like @NDRQ 's above are being liked by Amir himself. This forum prides itself on being relatively uncensored, but simultaneously has become a haven for audiophiles who do not contribute anything but inflammatory rhetoric.

The "gotcha" nature of the reviews here I think is a contributing factor. There is a repeated pattern of behavior: a review is posted, followed by several pages of members saying some variation of "wow, this product is trash, what a con job" (even in a relatively positive review, like Caldera). Then the manufacturer feels their product has been misrepresented, and comes in swinging. The forum then faults them for their hostility, arguments ensue, and the circle of animosity continues.

Now of course, many of the products being reviewed here are being sent in by members, not manufacturers. Do manufacturers get a courtesy call / email from Amir stating that their product is being reviewed, and if they want to inform the review or make any commentary on the measurements before posting? At the very least, I think that would prevent some of the anger on the part of the manufacturer that they weren't given a fair shake in terms of the measurements. For instance, Zach could have informed the review in terms of pad / filter variations that adhere closer to the Harman target, which is highly valued by ASR.

 

[L0rdGwyn]

What other manufacturer makes those type of drivers ?

I don't have that information, and it seems you don't either, but that doesn't mean another OEM doesn't exist outside the knowledge of those who are not directly involved in the industry.

 

[solderdude]

For instance, Zach could have informed the review in terms of pad / filter variations that adhere closer to the Harman target, which is highly valued by ASR.

Amir did state the following.

For starters, you should clearly post measurements of all of these pads. Second, are you saying that with a different pad the bass response would jump up nearly 7 dB to comply with Harman's target??? Love to see that measurement.

If you want to send me the pad that does bring the headphone to compliance, I am happy to test it. I recall you joining the forum a while ago and offering to send me headphones for testing but nothing happened.

 

[L0rdGwyn]

Amir did state the following.

I can't comment on that, but seems to be a communication breakdown. I do know that being a small business owner is extremely demanding and ASR is one reviewer among many. Regardless, I think a simple email to a manufacturer before a review is posted would be a positive step toward more congenial dialog between ASR and industry members rather than the current game of finger pointing.

 

[_thelaughingman]

Much of this behavior is endorsed by leaders of this forum, posts like @NDRQ 's above are being liked by Amir himself. This forum prides itself on being relatively uncensored, but simultaneously has become a haven for audiophiles who do not contribute anything but inflammatory rhetoric.

The "gotcha" nature of the reviews here I think is a contributing factor. There is a repeated pattern of behavior: a review is posted, followed by several pages of members saying some variation of "wow, this product is trash, what a con job" (even in a relatively positive review, like Caldera). Then the manufacturer feels their product has been misrepresented, and comes in swinging. The forum then faults them for their hostility, arguments ensue, and the circle of animosity continues.

Yea that "gotcha" nature is detrimental because now every one makes an assumption without seeing a whole picture, lack of ownership or shared experience of the product. I used to be active in this forum but started to move away from participation because "keyboard warriors" come out in full force when they are emboldened by their assumptions.

 

[Chester]

I can't comment on that, but seems to be a communication breakdown. I do know that being a small business owner is extremely demanding and ASR is one reviewer among many. Regardless, I think a simple email to a manufacturer before a review is posted would be a positive step toward more congenial dialog between ASR and industry members rather than the current game of finger pointing.

Amir does do that I think, generally. (Engages manufacturers about testing he has done, sometimes prior to publishing)

 

[L0rdGwyn]

Amir does do that I think, generally. (Engages manufacturers about testing he has done, sometimes prior to publishing)

How this review has unfolded would seem to suggest that is not the case here. @amirm can confirm or deny that.

 

[solderdude]

Not many owners actually own headphones that are reviewed here or have first hand experience with them.
In every thread there are usually only but a handful and usually they like the reviewed product otherwise they would not have bought them in the first place.

There are always haters, for every product and they are vocal on every forum. Just not about the same product in general. Gear that reviews well is said to be trash on other sites and on those sites gear that did not do that well is often liked a lot or praised into audiophile heaven.

The tuning of the Caldera seems 'fine' to me and kind of reflects my preference in tuning. Build quality is high, some aspects are excellent.

Not enough emphasis was done on the pads and inserts which I am sure will make a world of difference.
This happens with nearly all products reviewed. Regardless if they are sent in by owners that want their copy measured/reviewed or by manufacturers.
When manufacturers do reach out they can have results discussed before Amir posts his findings. This has been mentioned by Amir in some reviews even.
These arrangements can be made with most reviewers b.t.w.
In this case it is an owner, there is no reason to believe the product is faulty and no inserts/pads were sent along (afaik).

Should Amir really contact all manufacturers of all devices that are sent in before posting findings ? And what if they don't agree or want it posted ?

I am sure that if Zach did have model(s) sent in by Zach himself to be reviewed, the communication would have been a lot different and possibly more pads/options would have been measured.
Zach seems to me as a really nice and helpful guy with a whole lot of experience which is not reflected in this thread. The way Zach entered in this thread did not do that reputation much good. Understandable as this was about one of his babies he worked on for years, still... some of his remarks could have been left out which surely would have been beneficial in the way some members now look at ZMF.

Of course, only manufacturers that have models that measure well (for headphones adhere to Harman) are likely to send headphones (or DACs/Amps) in.
When they are not confident their products will test well they might not be inclined to do so.

 

[Madlop26]

We will never get past this will we - equating an interest and a hobby down to price performance on a single metric. Reminds me of this game we used to play with car cards when I was a kid. No one liked the Ferrari F50 because it did not have fastest 0-100, highest top speed or the horse power. Well, if that is what is important to you, Amir recommended the $10 Sony MDR-ZX110 as an extremely accurate audiophile headphone - why don't you get yourself one of those instead of HD600 and save yourself the $290.

hmm, actually your argument about the Sony MDR-ZX110, seems not to help your point, that thing has 110,000 reviews in amazon with 75% being 5 starts, huge sample that supports the importance to have a good FR for a headphone to be like by most people, but that headphone can not handle any subbass at all, and I really like my subbass, so is a pass for me even at that price.

 

[L0rdGwyn]

Should Amir really contact all manufacturers of all devices that are sent in before posting findings ? And what if they don't agree or want it posted ?

Even better would to contact them before he does his measurements, a simple "FYI I have your product in house" since Amir seems to have a consistent backlog anyway. That would allow manufacturers the opportunity to provide pads / inserts, etc. if they feel those accessories would present their product in a light that aligns better with ASR's audience. It would also prevent the perception of being blindsided since they would know a review is forthcoming.

I am sure that if Zach did have model(s) sent in by Zach himself to be reviewed, the communication would have been a lot different and possibly more pads/options would have been measured.
Zach seems to me as a really nice and helpful guy with a whole lot of experience which is not reflected in this thread. The way Zach entered in this thread did not do that reputation much good. Understandable as this was about one of his babies he worked on for years, still... some of his remarks could have been left out which surely would have been beneficial in the way some members now look at ZMF.

Zach is one of the most well-liked guys in the headphone community. Again, a courtesy email / phone call would likely have prevented the flared tempers in this thread and allowed for a more amicable conversation.

 

[majingotan]

The "gotcha" nature of the reviews here I think is a contributing factor. There is a repeated pattern of behavior: a review is posted, followed by several pages of members saying some variation of "wow, this product is trash, what a con job" (even in a relatively positive review, like Caldera). Then the manufacturer feels their product has been misrepresented, and comes in swinging. The forum then faults them for their hostility, arguments ensue, and the circle of animosity continues.

Caldera's tonality does suck after demoing it many times though to my ears which is reflective of its FR measured by Amir. Hifiman Susvara, which I own, is the much more correct tonality to my HRTF and most measuring rigs out there. Sennheiser HE-1 also sounds tonally correct to my HRTF after demoing it a few times as well.

 

[L0rdGwyn]

Caldera's tonality does suck after demoing it many times though to my ears which is reflective of its FR measured by Amir. Hifiman Susvara, which I own, is the much more correct tonality to my HRTF and most measuring rigs out there. Sennheiser HE-1 also sounds tonally correct to my HRTF after demoing it a few times as well.

And that's fine. I and many others prefer Caldera to the Susvara. As has been said many times before, frequency response is only part of the puzzle. I like Susvara, but I find it's diffuse staging and spatial characteristics to feel unnatural. As an aside, it also has one of the worst stock cables I have ever used, which is impressive given its MSRP.