ZMF Atticus Review (Headphone)

[respice finem]

Lol no pad in the world can save this headphone.

This. And even if all pads in the world were the same, every head and every pair of ears is (anatomically) different, so any measurement is not guaranteed to exactly fit a given person. That aside, everybody's hearing is different to anybody else's, if only slightly.

I'm not trying to spread nihilism, but I'm afraid we have to live with some imperfections, including our own.

 

[Zensō]

This comes on the back of the last headphone measured using aftermarket pads too, it's far from ideal and shouldn't become a standard/common practice.

Yes, ASR has become sloppy the last 2 headphone reviews, especially in this current review when it wasn't even known if the pads were aftermarket or stock. I'm gonna leave it be for now till (if) we see other reviews with aftermarket pads.

Will you be buying new, off the shelf headphones to send in for review? If not, I think we’ll have to work with what we have, which in my opinion is a far bit better than nothing.

 

[Robbo99999]

Will you be buying new, off the shelf headphones to send in for review? If not, I think we’ll have to work with what we have, which in my opinion is a far bit better than nothing.

(I addressed that point with an earlier post of mine)

 

[pwjazz]

Lol no pad in the world can save this headphone.

Not commenting on this headphone specifically, but in general, pads can make a huge difference to frequency response. Here are some measurements from Dekoni of various pads on the Beyerdynamic DT 1990. You can see variations up to 6dB in the bass and 6 dB in the upper mids/lower treble. If you accept that frequency response has a major impact on the perceived sound quality, pads can in fact save (or doom) many a headphone.

 

[pozz]

Not commenting on this headphone specifically, but in general, pads can make a huge difference to frequency response. Here are some measurements from Dekoni of various pads on the Beyerdynamic DT 1990. You can see variations up to 6dB in the bass and 6 dB in the upper mids/lower treble. If you accept that frequency response has a major impact on the perceived sound quality, pads can in fact save (or doom) many a headphone.

View attachment 135824

It's too bad the effects can't be predicted in advance.

 

[the_brunx]

Not commenting on this headphone specifically, but in general, pads can make a huge difference to frequency response. Here are some measurements from Dekoni of various pads on the Beyerdynamic DT 1990. You can see variations up to 6dB in the bass and 6 dB in the upper mids/lower treble. If you accept that frequency response has a major impact on the perceived sound quality, pads can in fact save (or doom) many a headphone.

View attachment 135824

Yes pads make a difference but in this case you need a miracle.
And its not like the many owners of ZMF headphones are known to pad roll them because the stock pads are so perfect and they need this mess instead.

 

[amirm]

Not commenting on this headphone specifically, but in general, pads can make a huge difference to frequency response. Here are some measurements from Dekoni of various pads on the Beyerdynamic DT 1990.

I don't trust any of those measurements. Here is one of their comparisons from above:

This level of change is completely within the range of variations you get when you just reposition the headphone. And even left to right as you see in my measurements of Atticus:

There is 6 dB difference here in bass for example.

Unless a fixture is built to completely control the positioning of the headphone, I would not put any trust in such measurements especially since they are on a HATS where positioning is more critical.

We can only quantify effects that go beyond the accuracy of our measurements. Everything else is unreliable.

 

[pwjazz]

I don't trust any of those measurements. Here is one of their comparisons from above:

This level of change is completely within the range of variations you get when you just reposition the headphone. And even left to right as you see in my measurements of Atticus:

There is 6 dB difference here in bass for example.

Unless a fixture is built to completely control the positioning of the headphone, I would not put any trust in such measurements especially since they are on a HATS where positioning is more critical.

We can only quantify effects that go beyond the accuracy of our measurements. Everything else is unreliable.

You chose a pad that happens to measure close to stock to make your point. You could have chosen a pad that differs significantly, like this...

That level of difference is well beyond the margin of positioning error. What you see here is the effect of moving from relatively permeable and shallow cloth pads to deeper and tightly sealing pleather pads, turning a relatively balanced headphone into a bass cannon.

I see this sort of thing not just in Dekoni's measurements, but also in measurements from oratory1990 and our own @solderdude, as well as countless other less prolific measurers.

I've personally experimented with countless pads in designing my own headphones, and they have a profound impact on the measured and heard frequency response.

If you haven't had the opportunity to experience this for yourself, I'd be happy to send you a variety of pads as well as a pair of Hifiman mounting rings so that you can run your own experiments on your HE400i. Just let me know!

 

[Maki]

The pads are all ZMF brand, though I am not sure which specific ones they are. So they aren't just random noname pads from Amazon.

 

[Fernando]

This is a pad thread ???

 

[pwjazz]

This is a pad thread ???

Someone suggested (without evidence) that different pads would not drastically alter the Atticus's sound. I was simply trying to point out that pads can in fact have a profound impact on the frequency response of headphones. I thought this was a fairly settled matter, but somehow it turned into a debate...

 

[L0rdGwyn]

I owned the ZMF Atticus at one time, I enjoyed it, certainly isn't broken as the measurements suggest. I downsized my headphone collection to just two, the ZMF Auteur and the HD650, so the Atticus was sold along with many others.

The stock pads are called Ori pads, shown below.



However, I felt the suede Eikon pads were a big improvement over the Ori, really opened up the soundstage, drastically different sound between them in terms of staging and imaging, perhaps not the frequency response however. I also felt the Ori pads made the headphone sound muffled and claustrophobic. If the Eikon suede pads were included, I would highly suggest trying them.

Also, the Auteur and Vérité models would likely impress more from both a objective and subjective standpoint.

 

[Tachyon88]

I thought pad rolling came with the whole ZMF experience though. Only one I would be interested in is the VC, but I think they are too expensive.

 

[Francis Vaughan]

The Delkoni curves really show two curves, and it isn’t a surprise. The velour, fenestrated and hybrid (which are fenestrated on the inside) are all really one curve with the other curve made up of those pads made with a non porous material.
This is going to make for a big difference in adsorption between the two. Enough that there is good reason to take tonal changes seriously if one goes to the non-porous material. But not otherwise.
Pads matter. That is clear. And they matter more than I would have hoped. I recently replaced the very old (over 15 years) pads on my HD650s with Delkoni hybrid. It did change the tonal balance, but whether it restored it to as new or something else, I have no idea. Nor do I really care. They sound good.

I do think there is value in a specific set of tests to evaluate the range of effects of various pads. New, old, a few after market, all on a well known headphone. Such as HD650. That might put to bed the various arguments.

 

[amirm]

That level of difference is well beyond the margin of positioning error.

Where is the data on positioning error? What is real, what is not in that comparison? Fact is that if you are going to complain my measurements are not accurate due to pad differences, then you better put forward measurements that are. And these are not.

 

[respice finem]

Speaking of pads, I had "ancient" MB closed-back studio headphones back in the 70s. Those had liquid-filled pads according to their data. Those pads were ahead of their time, so to speak, they aligned perfectly and didn't deteriorate at all for many years (until the plastic outer shell became porous). Maybe it would be worthwhile to make those again?

 

[amirm]

If you haven't had the opportunity to experience this for yourself, I'd be happy to send you a variety of pads as well as a pair of Hifiman mounting rings so that you can run your own experiments on your HE400i. Just let me know!

Thanks but I don't need it. I cannot represent any such measurements and subjective experience as reliable due to vagaries of headphone measurements and wearing them. There is no doubt some acoustic changes occur but none that I am in the business of quantifying. I have already post one review of a set of pads and had to put a disclaimer in there that I do not have confidence in the results.

On subjective front, every time I wear a headphone, it goes on a bit different. This would show up as clear response differences in measurements yet I do not hear or perceive them.

 

[pwjazz]

Where is the data on positioning error? What is real, what is not in that comparison? Fact is that if you are going to complain my measurements are not accurate due to pad differences, then you better put forward measurements that are. And these are not.

I'm not complaining about your measurements, where did I complain about your measurements? I'm responding to a member who asserted that these headphones are beyond the ability of pads to fix, which implies that pads can't significantly impact frequency response. I'm merely seeking to debunk that notion for the benefit of our fellow members.

I'm not sure why we're debating this(?). Is your position that pads don't have a measurable and audible impact on the frequency response of headphones?

 

[amirm]

I'm not sure why we're debating this(?). Is your position that pads don't have a measurable and audible impact on the frequency response of headphones?

This was a heated battle from last headphone reviewed carried into this one. As to my position, it is an unknown in my book. I cannot represent their differential correctly in measurements. Nor can perform any kind of controlled test to show audible difference. As you saw, it was easy to poke holes in the measurements you showed and I don't want to be the one having to defend them.

 

[Robbo99999]

I'm not complaining about your measurements, where did I complain about your measurements? I'm responding to a member who asserted that these headphones are beyond the ability of pads to fix, which implies that pads can't significantly impact frequency response. I'm merely seeking to debunk that notion for the benefit of our fellow members.

I'm not sure why we're debating this(?). Is your position that pads don't have a measurable and audible impact on the frequency response of headphones?

As you've shown, as I've shown, plenty of people have measured large significant differences between pads as well as users noticing the change when swapping pads....we know it's not a mystery, it's a fact, in my eyes there is no debate.