Zero-emission vehicles, their batteries & subsidies/rebates for them.- No politics regarding the subsidies!

[voodooless]

Most countries I think.

Yeah, looks like it EU law as well. I never noticed it in my current car though


… and I thought the Koreans were the good ones:

Factory-Installed Fake Engine Sounds and Vibrations for EVs Are Almost Reality

Will you start up your EV just for the sake of the noises it makes? You might. Here’s what’s brewing in South Korea and how it might catch on

www.autoevolution.com

Please stop this…

 

[blueone]

Porsche have been selling expensive sport exhaust systems with sound enhancement designed in for decades. Not coming through the sound system but not that philosophically different IMHO.

Yeah, we have a Porsche like that, with the sport exhaust. It just came with the GTS trim level. I never use the loud setting, but I know my wife does. I hadn't thought about no-power-increase-just-noisier Porsche sport exhaust systems that way, but you're right.

 

[blueone]

I hate faux sounds but when I questioned why on earth anybody would like it on the Taycan forum a very large proportion, maybe even the majority, of owners said they liked it.
I was clearly not typical.

That makes two of us.

 

[blueone]

In some countries EVs are mandated to make some sound on the outside for low speeds. My Kia E-Niro also had some space sound at low speeds. It’s a bit goofy, but for pedestrians it’s safer.

I would prefer a loud voice saying "Get the hell out of my way!" Yeah, I'm in a special mood today.

 

[voodooless]

I would prefer a loud voice saying "Get the hell out of my way!" Yeah, I'm in a special mood today.

Isn’t that exactly what a V8 sound is supposed to accomplish

 

[Timcognito]

In some countries EVs are mandated to make some sound on the outside for low speeds. My Kia E-Niro also had some space sound at low speeds. It’s a bit goofy, but for pedestrians it’s safer.

I don't think many would oppose that, it's the fake engine noise that's nuts. Even as a marketing tool seems childish.

 

[Marc v E]

It’s not surprising at all, really. The Germans are quite resistant to EVs. They reluctantly agreed to new guidelines ending ICE cars in 2035, yet managed to add exceptions for e-fuels:

EU countries approve 2035 phaseout of CO2-emitting cars

European Union countries gave final approval on Tuesday to a landmark law to end sales of new CO2-emitting cars in 2035, after Germany won an exemption for cars running on e-fuels.

www.reuters.com

I agree. The reason behind them resisting change is the 'innovators dilemma'. They are too big, to comfy with the money they earn right now to want to take big risks.

 

[Doodski]

I agree. The reason behind them resisting change is the 'innovators dilemma'. They are too big, to comfy with the money they earn right now to want to take big risks.

ICE vehicles will still be required in the future for remote location operation, long distance travel and heavy duty equipment, shipping, trains etc. Or hydrogen fuel.

 

[Newman]

Yeah, looks like it EU law as well. I never noticed it in my current car though


… and I thought the Koreans were the good ones:

Factory-Installed Fake Engine Sounds and Vibrations for EVs Are Almost Reality

Will you start up your EV just for the sake of the noises it makes? You might. Here’s what’s brewing in South Korea and how it might catch on

www.autoevolution.com

Please stop this…

I vote for legislation to have someone walk in front of EVs waving a red flag and tooting a trumpet.

 

[TonyJZX]

a few words on fake engine sounds

for EVs on the outside, this is a safety issue... at low speeds no one cares about that... they make them sound like electric cars from Tron or some shit, that's fine... inoffensive

for EVs on the inside, this is more a motion sickness issue... famously Rolls Royce were able to make a 5,000lb $1 mil. usd limousine w/ a twin turbo V12 completely silent.... it made the occupants sick... they found out that some kind of velvet V12 exhaust note made things normal

for ICE cars... the reality is that to many people, modern ICE motors sounds terrible. If you have a turbo 2.0 four then its probably going to sound droney and 'farty'... so the companies can "fix" that to some degree by adding in tones with the speakers.

With the advent of crummy turbo 1.5 fours and 1.0 triples and other kinds of lame motors then expect companies to try to 'mask' these objectionable sounds with the cars internal speakers.

You will notice Ford is not doing this with the V8 Mustang... Porsche is not doing this on the 911, nor is Ferrari.

But if your motor has bad harmonics then expect them to fix it 'post production'... with DSP (literally) - even some V6s and inline sixes dont sound too nice.... eg. the BMW B58 inline six to my ear doesnt sound so nice.

 

[Marc v E]

ICE vehicles will still be required in the future for remote location operation, long distance travel and heavy duty equipment, shipping, trains etc. Or hydrogen fuel.

Really? I don't think so.
But maybe you can convince me.

What I know now, is that trains in Europe run on electricity. This is cheaper than Hydrogen and will always be, because making hydrogen requires electricity to break the H from the O2 in water. Then compressed or super chilled storing, transporting and finally reconverting back to electricity, losing about 75% energy in the process iirc.

What I gather is that batteries containing 450wh/kg are required for planes to be viable for longer distance. We just reached that milestone. Short distance is already viable and better still, costs a lot less to operate than current short distance planes. Existing plane operators will adept or will get seriously hammered by electric plane fleets that only fly short and medium distance. Still, in the end, planes are less than 10% of the problem iirc. Ships even less, 1 or 3% iirc.

Focussing on trucks, suvs, cars in general and getting the electric grid close to 100% is more useful imo. Tesla semi proofs electric semi's are very much possible. No need for hydrogen there. The Ford F150 and Cybertruck seem capable of fulfilling the requirements of suv users.
Long distance travel is what Björn Nydahl does all the time in Norway when he tests evs in 1000 km trips. Not sure what is left, but looks like only edge cases to me. If you can get electricity to a place or a windmill/solar panels + battery you can pretty much survive under any circumstance.

Getting the grid to 100% green energy has its challenges, mainly in scaling up battery production but seems achievable.

 

[voodooless]

Really? I don't think so.
But maybe you can convince me.

What I know now, is that trains in Europe run on electricity. This is cheaper than Hydrogen and will always be, because making hydrogen requires electricity to break the H from the O2 in water. Then compressed or super chilled storing, transporting and finally reconverting back to electricity, losing about 75% energy in the process iirc.

What I gather is that batteries containing 450wh/kg are required for planes to be viable for longer distance. We just reached that milestone. Short distance is already viable and better still, costs a lot less to operate than current short distance planes. Existing plane operators will adept or will get seriously hammered by electric plane fleets that only fly short and medium distance. In the end, planes are less than 10% of the problem iirc. Ships even less, 1 or 3% iirc.

Focussing on trucks, suvs, cars in general and getting the electric grid close to 100% is more useful imo. Tesla semi proofs electric semi's are very much possible. No need for hydrogen there. The Ford F150 and Cybertruck seem capable of fulfilling the requirements of suv users.
Long distance travel is what Björn Nydahl does all the time in Norway when he tests evs in 1000 km trips. Not sure what is left, but looks like only edge cases to me. If you can get electricity to a place or a windmill/solar panels + battery you can pretty much survive under any circumstance.

Getting the grid to 100% green energy has its challenges, mainly in scaling up battery production but seems achievable.

You left out the shipping bit. If we can fix the massive cargo ships, then basically anything is fixable. I guess you could just run those on Hydrogen, Solar, Sail combinations

 

[Somafunk]

 

[Marc v E]

You left out the shipping bit. If we can fix the massive cargo ships, then basically anything is fixable. I guess you could just run those on Hydrogen, Solar, Sail combinations

A few months ago there was an interview with a Cambridge professor on this very subject. I will look it up to see what he had to say.

What I still remember is that ships are only 1-3% of the total picture and hard to convert because they use the cheapest sort of fuel, a sort of leftover from the refining process.

But that he thought it inconsequential, as its only 1-3% and would rather focus on the easier 97% first and foremost. Will update this post after I watched it again.

 

[Marc v E]

 

[TonyJZX]

i have a different view about long distance from our friends in Holland

i live in a polar opposite country... australia

and really, we will be relying on fossil fuels for quite a while

i dont doubt people in urban areas will majority move to EVs... when the Chinese begin making a $20,000 medium SUV EV w/ 600km range then its over

HOWEVER... if you live outside of urban areas them i'm thinking 600km isnt enough

this country is full of people who love medium to large SUVs or 4x4 light trucks that have long range diesel tanks that will go 2,000km or more with just internal fuel

AND we have huge road trains and of course large trucks that all run diesel

we have government services that all run diesel

we will get there... maybe by 2050 when we have some kind of new breakthru that allows 1,000-2,000km range on a cell and that can be used in large trucks... and military

btw. what happened to the Tesla semi truck? or the cybertruck for that matter?

 

[voodooless]

What I still remember is that ships are only 1-3% of the total picture and hard to convert because they use the cheapest sort of fuel, a sort of leftover from the refining process.

It will account for 17% of global CO2 output in 2050 if we don't do anything about it: https://www.transportenvironment.or...making-it-elephant-climate-negotiations-room/

 

[blueone]

Isn’t that exactly what a V8 sound is supposed to accomplish

Perhaps, but EV performance makes noisy engines so yesterday, while "Get the hell out of my way!" never goes out of style.

 

[Doodski]

What I know now, is that trains in Europe run on electricity. This is cheaper than Hydrogen and will always be, because making hydrogen requires electricity to break the H from the O2 in water. Then compressed or super chilled storing, transporting and finally reconverting back to electricity, losing about 75% energy in the process iirc.

What I gather is that batteries containing 450wh/kg are required for planes to be viable for longer distance. We just reached that milestone. Short distance is already viable and better still, costs a lot less to operate than current short distance planes. Existing plane operators will adept or will get seriously hammered by electric plane fleets that only fly short and medium distance. Still, in the end, planes are less than 10% of the problem iirc. Ships even less, 1 or 3% iirc.

I can't argue with those numbers. Thanks for those details. Big business and government are going ahead full steam with hydrogen extraction and refueling infrastructure where I live (Alberta Canada.) what the heck are they going to do with all this hydrogen? Any ideas?

 

[Timcognito]

what the heck are they going to do with all this hydrogen? Any ideas?

Aircraft and nighttime generation of electricity