Zero-emission vehicles, their batteries & subsidies/rebates for them.- No politics regarding the subsidies!

[Ron Texas]

@samsa that's an interesting video. I wonder what it takes to run the heat and as he said, lithium batteries work best when they are warm.

The real problem is finding a fast level 3 charger in the middle of nowhere. That describes the US west of I-35 where except for a few major cities it's wide open spaces until one reaches the West Coast.

 

[Timcognito]

The real problem is finding a fast level 3 charger in the middle of nowhere. That describes the US west of I-35 where except for a few major cities it's wide open spaces until one reaches the West Coast.

For now, they will be coming in, as you don't have to be $20 billion vertically integrated oil company to put in an electric vending machine.

 

[samsa]

GM just raised prices on the Hummer EV by $6,000, around 6%. One problem I see is with a rush to get EV's on the road rapidly there might not be enough lithium and other raw materials to go around. Tesla had several price increases recently.

Everyone is raising their prices because they don't have the manufacturing capacity to meet current demand.

The Hummer EV is sold-out through sometime in 2024. The F-150 Lightning is sold-out for the rest of 2022, at least.

And, despite having started production in their Austin and Berlin factories (to complement the existing ones in Fremont CA and Shanghai — when fully ramped-up more than doubling their production capacity), Tesla is listing 6-12 month delivery times for all of their vehicles. (With one notable exception: as a Texas resident, you can order one of the new Standard-Range Model Ys with the new 4680 structural battery pack, which are being produced at Giga-Austin.)

@samsa that's an interesting video. I wonder what it takes to run the heat

Cold weather is more of a problem, in the sense that being in the cold already decreases the battery efficiency.
Still, if you were going to get stuck on I-95 in the dead of winter, it was better in an EV.

and as he said, lithium batteries work best when they are warm.

The real problem is finding a fast level 3 charger in the middle of nowhere. That describes the US west of I-35 where except for a few major cities it's wide open spaces until one reaches the West Coast.

I thought I posted a link to this map before. I agree it could be better. But play around a bit with A Better Route Planner and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how this works "in practice".

 

[Doodski]

There's a lot of lithium deposits even in the US, but developing the mines takes time. Do you know the time frame?

I googled for about a hour a timeline for opening these lithium mines (There are more than several in Ontario I read and dozens across Canada in the form of open pit, underground and brine.) and it's a big circle jerk of prospective information that reads all positive but no factual dates for product moving to refineries. I did find that a Windsor Ontario lithium battery giga-factory is to tentatively go into production sometime during the first quarter of 2024. So they best hurry the heck up and get to mining the lithium because the auto manufacturers are depending on it. I also found that Chinese lithium companies are trying to horn in on the action and buy entire lithium mining companies in Canada. Apparently one company has been purchased already.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

GM just raised prices on the Hummer EV by $6,000, around 6%. One problem I see is with a rush to get EV's on the road rapidly there might not be enough lithium and other raw materials to go around. Tesla had several price increases recently.

The Salton Sea in California is a potentially rich source of lithium. The nice thing is that the development money from such an endeavor can benefit this area which has been ravaged over the years from it's one time status of tourist destination.

 

[Ron Texas]

@MakeMineVinyl I am aware of the Salton Sea as a potential lithium source. It will be particularly difficult to permit as it is in California.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

@MakeMineVinyl I am aware of the Salton Sea as a potential lithium source. It will be particularly difficult to permit as it is in California.

I believe its already past that stage and there is already lithium production going on. The deposit is so rich, and the area already so devastated, that almost anything is an improvement on what's there now (the picture I posted is something I took a couple years ago).

 

[Blumlein 88]

I believe its already past that stage and there is already lithium production going on. The deposit is so rich, and the area already so devastated, that almost anything is an improvement on what's there now (the picture I posted is something I took a couple years ago).

Your weren't astro-turfing were you. Admit it you put the fish there to make the picture.

PS-did you take it with a smartphone????

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Your weren't astro-turfing were you. Admit it you put the fish there to make the picture.

PS-did you take it with a smartphone????

Nope - there's plenty of dead fish. I choose that image because it was one of the more artsy-fartsy of the bunch. More common is like the one below.

Photographed On Location At Salton Sea, California, using a Canon 5D MKII with Canon EF-15mm fisheye lens.

Ha Ha, did you see that? I made an untentional pun and lens choice. Fisheye. Get it? I crack myself up sometimes.

 

[antcollinet]

Sodium will replace lithium in the not too distant future. Probably before we phase out (in UK) IC cars planned for 2030.

 

[Colonel7]

Everyone is raising their prices because they don't have the manufacturing capacity to meet current demand.

The Hummer EV is sold-out through sometime in 2024. The F-150 Lightning is sold-out for the rest of 2022, at least.

And, despite having started production in their Austin and Berlin factories (to complement the existing ones in Fremont CA and Shanghai — when fully ramped-up more than doubling their production capacity), Tesla is listing 6-12 month delivery times for all of their vehicles. (With one notable exception: as a Texas resident, you can order one of the new Standard-Range Model Ys with the new 4680 structural battery pack, which are being produced at Giga-Austin.)



Cold weather is more of a problem, in the sense that being in the cold already decreases the battery efficiency.
Still, if you were going to get stuck on I-95 in the dead of winter, it was better in an EV.



I thought I posted a link to this map before. I agree it could be better. But play around a bit with A Better Route Planner and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how this works "in practice".

Does this qualify as nowhere? Very cool, bad pun intended

Arctic Road Rally

The Arctic Road Rally drives transportation innovation by demonstrating the possibilities of electric vehicle (EV) technology deployed in the Arctic.

www.arcticroadrally.com

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

Went looking for a new car today went to the Mazda dealer and they had a good looking EV in the showroom. Asked about its range the salesman said 124 miles. What’s the point in buying it?

 

[Inner Space]

Went looking for a new car today went to the Mazda dealer and they had a good looking EV in the showroom. Asked about its range the salesman said 124 miles. What’s the point in buying it?

I have been working in the UK for 5 months, and they gave me a Honda "E" to use, which has a range of about 90 - 100 miles. My daily round trip was 12 miles, and pubs and restaurants etc were between 3 and 7 miles of where I was renting. Perfect. I saved numerous cold starts and numerous uneconomical short trips. So surely the answer to your question is use case. The max range of 100 miles could have been 20 or 1,000,000 without making any practical difference to me.

 

[RayDunzl]

Electric Vehicle Price Guide

Are you looking for the best electric vehicle prices? Electrek has called around to find the best deals around the US to save you the hassle.

electrek.co

 

[JJB70]

Went looking for a new car today went to the Mazda dealer and they had a good looking EV in the showroom. Asked about its range the salesman said 124 miles. What’s the point in buying it?

There's a huge proportion of car owners for which that is perfectly sufficient. And if you are one of the majority whose daily mileage is around 30 miles then it is financially sensible and environmentally better to have a small battery. Hire a car for the once a year road trip.

 

[DudleyDuoflush]

Went looking for a new car today went to the Mazda dealer and they had a good looking EV in the showroom. Asked about its range the salesman said 124 miles. What’s the point in buying it?

Totally depends on what your needs are. For me a range of 124 miles would be a disaster but for my partner it would be absolutely ideal and cover 99% of her journeys. It would be pointless to spend £55k on a range of 300+ miles when 124 is more than sufficient. Saying that, I think widespread adoption won't happen until longer range is cheaper AND the non-Tesla charging network improves. Outside of supercharges it's a bunfight.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Totally depends on what your needs are. For me a range of 124 miles would be a disaster but for my partner it would be absolutely ideal and cover 99% of her journeys. It would be pointless to spend £55k on a range of 300+ miles when 124 is more than sufficient. Saying that, I think widespread adoption won't happen until longer range is cheaper AND the non-Tesla charging network improves. Outside of supercharges it's a bunfight.

Yeah, same here, actually 124 miles would be enough for me like 80% of the time and only a minor inconvenience another 10%, but I wouldn't be interested in one with that range. I do know people for whom it would be perfectly fine. I also agree about the pricing and charging infrastructure.

 

[samsa]

Totally depends on what your needs are. For me a range of 124 miles would be a disaster but for my partner it would be absolutely ideal and cover 99% of her journeys. It would be pointless to spend £55k on a range of 300+ miles when 124 is more than sufficient. Saying that, I think widespread adoption won't happen until longer range is cheaper AND the non-Tesla charging network improves. Outside of supercharges it's a bunfight.

Again, I absolutely don't understand the obsession with this one figure-of-merit (range), to the exclusion of everything else. The Mazda MX-30 EV is an absolute dog of a car. It has terrible reviews from everyone who's reviewed it. I'll link to Doug DeMuro, not because his review stands out in any way, but because he is amusing to watch.

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

Again, I absolutely don't understand the obsession with this one figure-of-merit (range), to the exclusion of everything else. The Mazda MX-30 EV is an absolute dog of a car. It has terrible reviews from everyone who's reviewed it. I'll link to Doug DeMuro, not because his review stands out in any way, but because he is amusing to watch.

Seems like Doug DeMuro shares my view on its limited range, it’s the first thing he goes on about. An EV costing well over $30,000 with a range of around 100 miles, limiting its appeal to extremely short journeys a marketing puzzle.

 

[DudleyDuoflush]

Again, I absolutely don't understand the obsession with this one figure-of-merit (range), to the exclusion of everything else. The Mazda MX-30 EV is an absolute dog of a car. It has terrible reviews from everyone who's reviewed it. I'll link to Doug DeMuro, not because his review stands out in any way, but because he is amusing to watch.

I'm certainly not suggesting just being an EV means it's a good car. Just like every other type of car - some will be good, some bad, most will be ok.