Zero-emission vehicles, their batteries & subsidies/rebates for them.- No politics regarding the subsidies!

[rdenney]

Having spent my career in the way that I have, my conclusion is that the private sector is usually the most efficient way to get something done. But the private sector provides no assurance either of quality or equity. The government (and I include the military) also struggles with quality, but for different reasons. For the private sector, quality is limited by cost and the market's willingness to recognize and reward quality sufficiently to cover those costs, which usually points production to the lowest common denominator, not to excellence. Quality in government programs is limited--sometimes severely--by cost inefficiencies. But the government, while not be accountable routinely for efficiency, is usually accountable for equity in many things that it does, and that is primarily because of the representative political oversight. It is an imperfect system by any measure, but so is the private sector, especially when building public infrastructures.

Stated another way: Government is not usually the most efficient method to get something done, but it is occasionally the only method that will attain all the objectives, including but not limited to service to the parts of the population that for one reason or another cannot compete as customers in the market.

Rick "observed all levels of government and the private sector from the inside" Denney

 

[pseudoid]

spent my career in the way that I have

Yeah, that's what I meant!
The part that we are not allowed to talk about YET or one that we don't currently own up to is the (A)The Overlords, and (B)Surveillance Capitalists.
Both will be operating in the software and real-world levels.
~30,000 vehicular deaths per year due to mostly humanoids (rather than hw/sw) is about the best reason I can see the need for EVs but that is ONLY because our attention deficit is becoming even a bigger deficit, as we are pre-occupied with ditzy stuff.
So, along with an EV, you also get another free tracking device. Nice!
Oh yes, and the pizza you ordered on the way home and the speeding ticket you just got will be both waiting for you at your doorstep...

pseudo-don't wanna talk/walk like a duck-id

 

[Blumlein 88]

Yeah, that's what I meant!
The part that we are not allowed to talk about YET or one that we don't currently own up to is the (A)The Overlords, and (B)Surveillance Capitalists.
Both will be operating in the software and real-world levels.
~30,000 vehicular deaths per year due to mostly humanoids (rather than hw/sw) is about the best reason I can see the need for EVs but that is ONLY because our attention deficit is becoming even a bigger deficit, as we are pre-occupied with ditzy stuff.
So, along with an EV, you also get another free tracking device. Nice!
Oh yes, and the pizza you ordered on the way home and the speeding ticket you just got will be both waiting for you at your doorstep...

pseudo-don't wanna talk/walk like a duck-id

Don't look now, but traffic deaths have surged back to 40,000 per year. I quit riding motorcycles on the road, something I really love, because it just seems too dangerous with so many distracted drivers.

A friend who drives a vehicle like I did was hit by other people twice in the last 6 months. One was a bad accident he took awhile to get over. The next one probably has permanently messed up his shoulder. He decided like it or not he had to drive something large for protection. In the first accident someone running from police rear ended him while they were doing 110 mph. In the 2nd someone ran through a 4 way stop. I decided he was right and have been driving an SUV for the first time ever.

 

[rdenney]

Don't look now, but traffic deaths have surged back to 40,000 per year. I quit riding motorcycles on the road, something I really love, because it just seems too dangerous with so many distracted drivers.

A friend who drives a vehicle like I did was hit by other people twice in the last 6 months. One was a bad accident he took awhile to get over. The next one probably has permanently messed up his shoulder. He decided like it or not he had to drive something large for protection. In the first accident someone running from police rear ended him while they were doing 110 mph. In the 2nd someone ran through a 4 way stop. I decided he was right and have been driving an SUV for the first time ever.

Distraction is part of it, but not all of it. There is certainly a COVID effect or something like it happening with respect to driver behaviors, and it has been noticed by everyone who is charged with noticing such things.

Rick "which to some extent includes me" Denney

 

[Blumlein 88]

Distraction is part of it, but not all of it. There is certainly a COVID effect or something like it happening with respect to driver behaviors, and it has been noticed by everyone who is charged with noticing such things.

Rick "which to some extent includes me" Denney

It is mostly a black thing. Nearly all the increase is among black drivers.

I was referring to distraction becoming too much long prior to COVID.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Don't look now, but traffic deaths have surged back to 40,000 per year. I quit riding motorcycles on the road, something I really love, because it just seems too dangerous with so many distracted drivers.

A friend who drives a vehicle like I did was hit by other people twice in the last 6 months. One was a bad accident he took awhile to get over. The next one probably has permanently messed up his shoulder. He decided like it or not he had to drive something large for protection. In the first accident someone running from police rear ended him while they were doing 110 mph. In the 2nd someone ran through a 4 way stop. I decided he was right and have been driving an SUV for the first time ever.

I ceased motorcycles when cell phones proliferated. Worse than navigating around drunk drivers at midnight.

 

[Ron Texas]

It is mostly a black thing. Nearly all the increase is among black drivers.

I was referring to distraction becoming too much long prior to COVID.

Black drivers? You have to be kidding.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Black drivers? You have to be kidding.

Not according to the data.

Traffic deaths increased among Black people more than any other race during pandemic: Study

The fatalities increased the most during lockdown from March to December.

abcnews.go.com

Black people are more likely to die in traffic accidents. Covid made it worse.

More Black people died in traffic deaths in 2020 than any other racial group even though Americans drove less in the pandemic. Experts say this is not new.

www.nbcnews.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2021/06/22/black-traffic-deaths-pandemic/

Chicago Traffic Cameras Issue Most Tickets to Black and Latino Drivers

The city's controversial traffic camera program tickets Black and Latino motorists more than white drivers. Infrastructure may play a role in why.

www.planetizen.com

 

[EJ3]

In theory EV is cheaper to operate at the moment. How much of the savings will disappear once the road taxes - currently collected through gasoline tax - are applied to the electric vehicles?

Also when subsidies disappear. What about overland/off-road going vehicles that get a good bit of use not on the road. I have some vehicles that only drive on road to a place to leave the road & go off road for days (or weeks), camping, boating, etc. Also miles spent on a race track or off road course.

 

[EJ3]

I suppose the state tax was reduced from its ~50 cents a gallon a couple of years ago.

Don't forget that the Highway Trust Fund gets another 18.4 cents per gallon at the federal level.

The median state-level gasoline tax in the U.S. is about 30 cents a gallon, and it ranges from half that to twice that.

At present, the federal tax does not fully support the Highway Trust Fund, and it is supplemented from other sources. The new infrastructure law, for example, adds about $215B from the general fund through 2027. (The Highway Trust Fund provides somewhat less than $50B in highway funding to states each year, plus about 1% of that amount to fund the portion of the government that distributes those funds.)

As the fleet changes to not using gasoline or diesel fuel, this gap will increase--after 2027, federal fuel, freight, and tire excise taxes will fund less than half of expenditures.

Something's gotta give, especially if people expect their cars to do their driving for them, which will impose a much higher maintenance standard for roadway markings and pavement.

Like I said, expect mileage-based taxes.

You "heard it here" First

Totally unfair to people who spend time driving off-road, (as is the gas/diesel tax.

 

[fitero]

It is saddening to read that the higher mortality rate among blacks and hispanics is caused NOT due to their being drivers, but due to their being struck as pedestrians.

 

[MediumRare]

The transition to EVs has very little to do with environmental issues and everything to do with performance and economy. Even though the Prius had dramatically better fuel economy it had narrow appeal. Modern EVs have faster acceleration, lower maintenance costs, and lower operating costs. We’re nearly at the tipping point where commercial vehicles such as light-to-heavy trucks with day cabs and, of course, pickup trucks, are simply better as EVs instead of ICE vehicles. Busses too. So the transition of vehicles on the road will be driven by the benefit of going to an EV which will accelerate the removal of inefficient ICE vehicles. We see the same thing all the time with commercial aircraft which are retired or sent to poor countries because newer models are so much more efficient. It’s got nothing to do with politics or subsidies although those things are visible they are peripheral to the issue.

 

[andrewjohn007]

The transition to EVs has very little to do with environmental issues and everything to do with performance and economy. Even though the Prius had dramatically better fuel economy it had narrow appeal. Modern EVs have faster acceleration, lower maintenance costs, and lower operating costs. We’re nearly at the tipping point where commercial vehicles such as light-to-heavy trucks with day cabs and, of course, pickup trucks, are simply better as EVs instead of ICE vehicles. Busses too. So the transition of vehicles on the road will be driven by the benefit of going to an EV which will accelerate the removal of inefficient ICE vehicles. We see the same thing all the time with commercial aircraft which are retired or sent to poor countries because newer models are so much more efficient. It’s got nothing to do with politics or subsidies although those things are visible they are peripheral to the issue.

Nothing to do with politics? You're kidding right? Jenn, is that you?

 

[Martin]

I'm coming off a Volvo XC-90 lease in May. It's worth well over our purchase option price. I'm buying it and holding onto it as a trade in down the road. I have a $1,000 deposit down on this Rivian R1S.

I'm not an environmentalist by any stretch of the imagination; I'm just a nerd and like the tech. EV performance is a huge incentive for me. Looking at the Fisker Ocean, too, but I like the size of the R1S.

One thing I love about the town I live in is that all our garbage and recyclables go to a power plant that burns garbage. It is sorted and anything that cannot be recycled is burned for power. The resulting ash is trucked to the landfill. These types of power plants should be everywhere.

Martin

 

[MediumRare]

Nothing to do with politics? You're kidding right? Jenn, is that you?

Not sure if you are in the motor vehicle business, I am. Obviously government regulation penetrates every aspect of American business. EVs are no different from anything else. Can you name an area of business that is not shaped by government regulation?

 

[pseudoid]

I think the initial premise of the EV movement was to save the planet from an 'existential' calamity.
Polar-caps melting and sea-levels rising as a consequence.
I don't know what to make of this graph w/RE: such meltage:

Do such graphical trends NOT tell the whole truth or is there some distortion in the media (note my red annotations)?
Hmmmmmmmmmm...
On another note: Similar to the obesity epidemic, I am also noticing that there is a similar problem with EVs that have gotten plump at around/near 5,000lbs on the scales. Even the lowly Chevy Bolt weight is at around 3,800lbs.
Hmmmmm....

 

[Blumlein 88]

I think the initial premise of the EV movement was to save the planet from an 'existential' calamity.
Polar-caps melting and sea-levels rising as a consequence.
I don't know what to make of this graph w/RE: such meltage:
View attachment 187826
Do such graphical trends NOT tell the whole truth or is there some distortion in the media (note my red annotations)?
Hmmmmmmmmmm...
On another note: Similar to the obesity epidemic, I am also noticing that there is a similar problem with EVs that have gotten plump at around/near 5,000lbs on the scales. Even the lowly Chevy Bolt weight is at around 3,800lbs.
Hmmmmm....

The weight of EVs is easy, batteries are heavy. The weight for energy stored is much in favor of gasoline.

 

[MediumRare]

I think the initial premise of the EV movement was to save the planet from an 'existential' calamity.
Polar-caps melting and sea-levels rising as a consequence.
I don't know what to make of this graph w/RE: such meltage:
View attachment 187826
Do such graphical trends NOT tell the whole truth or is there some distortion in the media (note my red annotations)?
Hmmmmmmmmmm...
On another note: Similar to the obesity epidemic, I am also noticing that there is a similar problem with EVs that have gotten plump at around/near 5,000lbs on the scales. Even the lowly Chevy Bolt weight is at around 3,800lbs.
Hmmmmm....

Ice shelf loss is dependent on the rates of both melt and snowfall. If you Google that you will find extensive discussion. Part of climate change is an increase in precipitation in some parts of the world and a decrease in others. The dramatic increase in temperature in the polar region has resulted in higher humidity which in turn causes greater snowfall. There are projections that show that balance will cease and part of the increase in sea levels (which has been documented for decades) will increase in the future as the Greenland ice shelf melts.

 

[pseudoid]

Ice shelf loss is dependent on the rates of both melt and snowfall. If you Google that you will find extensive discussion. Part of climate change is an increase in precipitation in some parts of the world and a decrease in others. The dramatic increase in temperature in the polar region has resulted in higher humidity which in turn causes greater snowfall. There are projections that show that balance will cease and part of the increase in sea levels (which has been documented for decades) will increase in the future as the Greenland ice shelf melts.

Sorry!
I prefer simple graphs and historical trends.
Unless you are telling me that the decrease shown in my posted graph (<<from reputable sources) are flatulence by climate-deniers or wutevr!

 

[andrewjohn007]

Not sure if you are in the motor vehicle business, I am. Obviously government regulation penetrates every aspect of American business. EVs are no different from anything else. Can you name an area of business that is not shaped by government regulation?

No I can not...

You are doing a great job of undercutting your original premise BTW.

Government regulation is largely dictated by the Executive branch, via a consortium of Federal agencies, is it not?

Can we agree that In the last 12 months, government regulations on the whole have reversed course exclusively to the benefit of EVs and to the detriment to ICEs?

Which political party is in favor of expanding governmental regulations?

Which political party is in favor of reducing governmental regulations?

Can you name a single government agency that hasn't in some form espoused "environmental justice" as its superseding primary directive since January of last year?