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Zero-emission vehicles, their batteries & subsidies/rebates for them.- No politics regarding the subsidies!

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Colonel7

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Not sure what you saying here but I'm on track for getting my money back in six and half years because I bought my system. Its returning $120 -$200/month with $2500 bundling discount (panels and backup battery) plus $4600 tax credit from US gov on a $19500 system cost. Its on target so far for what was calculated before I bought it.
That's a very good return and is probably better than any energy efficiency investment. There are states where rooftop solar is an 18-22 year payback which makes it more of a preference purchase. With the new law that was just passed and the federal + state incentives I bet there are a couple places where it can be ~5. I think it was North Carolina that was like this maybe 8 years or so ago. I used to have my graduate students do these calcs for different states and utilities. Retail net-metering was still a thing back then. And don't lease if you can buy!!!!
 

Timcognito

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That's a very good return and is probably better than any energy efficiency investment. There are states where rooftop solar is an 18-22 year payback which makes it more of a preference purchase. With the new law that was just passed and the federal + state incentives I bet there are a couple places where it can be ~5. I think it was North Carolina that was like this maybe 8 years or so ago. I used to have my graduate students due these calls for different states and utilities. Retail net-metering was still a thing back then. And don't lease if you can buy!!!!
Well a big reason I'm doing so well is I live 300 ft from the Pacific Ocean which is always 50-60 deg F heatsink so air temperatures are rarely above 80 deg or below 40 mostly 50s and 60s. Lots of fog though which cuts the sun out so panels are at half output. I would do better if wasn't an avid woodworker also. LED lighting helps a lot.
 

Colonel7

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Well a big reason I'm doing so well is I live 300 ft from the Pacific Ocean which is always 50-60 deg F heatsink so air temperatures are rarely above 80 deg or below 40 mostly 50s and 60s. Lots of fog though which cuts the sun out so panels are at half output. I would do better if wasn't an avid woodworker also. LED lighting helps a lot.
Amazing how many kWh a well-lit kitchen and open spaces used to chew up with all of the 65w incandescent overhead cans
 

RayDunzl

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Summary:

For years, researchers have tried to find efficient and cost-effective ways to harness the extreme reactivity of aluminum to generate clean hydrogen fuel. A new study shows that an easily produced composite of gallium and aluminum creates aluminum nanoparticles that react rapidly with water at room temperature to yield large amounts of hydrogen.

So, maybe you could fill the tank with water...

And run on an oxygen hydrogen mix...

And pipe the resulting water back to the tank...

Perpetual motion!
 

RayDunzl

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Timcognito

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Will the Utility pay less, the same, or more for the electricity they take back, than you paid taking it from them?
Its always less than you. Makes sense because they have all the overhead. In California there are Public Utility Commissions that regulate the rates.
 

blueone

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Spotted this article on Axios today:
EVs aren't straining the electric grid - and they just might save it
Article cites value of 2-way charging as means of bolstering grid's resiliancy, with limits determined by vehicle owners, a feature already found in Nissan's Leaf.
That article is a mostly a non-technical agenda piece. This is a more useful and fact-based article from the IEEE, albeit not the latest thinking (from 2017):

henderson-novosel-crow-electric-power-grid-modernization.pdf

How well local grids can handle two-way power is highly variable. Many local grids have very limited (if any) capabilities. It's best to check with your local electric utility than assume anything. They'll usually ask for your street address to give you an accurate answer. A lot depends, apparently, on what your neighbors have already done.

One consideration homeowners should ponder very carefully is the complexities of roof-mounted solar installations. Depending on the design and construction of your roof, the age of the roof should be considered before a solar installation. If your roof is 20 years old or older, step one might be a roof renovation before the solar panel installation. If you need extensive repairs after the panels are installed, step one may be removing them first. Our roof is large and flat and we live in a high elevation area with an average of 310 days of sunshine per year, perfect for solar panels, but the roof is 16 years old, and I wasn't in the mood for a ~$40K roofing job before the solar installation started. If you think you might have roofing issues in the future, it's best to budget for a solar de-install / re-install should serious problems happen. I've also been told to have a discussion about solar panel installations with my homeowner's insurance company, because I've heard from neighbors that some of these companies are not solar-friendly.

In the article you quoted, it talks about charging EVs at night, when community usage is lower, but that's becoming more and more out of date. Renewable power is usually at its peak generation during daylight hours, and base load plants (coal, nuclear, NG) are being decommissioned or, in the case of natural gas turbines, postponed. The notion that night charging is better looks like it will change over time, as renewable power becomes a greater percentage of total generation.

I like the notion of EVs a lot. They're just plain better technologically, IMO, but still early in the technology development process, especially regarding charging. I'm on the fence about investing for the time being.

Home solar installations are complex systems, and most homeowners I talk to don't really understand the future maintenance and repair issues, or the impact on marketability if the home has an older solar power system. I talk to quite a few people who are excited about what they've done, but I think I'll be a trailing adopter of home solar.
 
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Timcognito

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Home solar installations are complex systems, and most homeowners I talk to don't really understand the future maintenance and repair issues, or the impact on marketability if the home has an older solar power system. I talk to quite a few people who are excited about what they've done, but I think I'll be a trailing adopter of home solar.
70% of the people in my neighborhood have solar and only complaints are that some installations where done more attractively than others and everyone who rented wishes they bought to get more savings. Those with backup batteries are really happy right now here in California because of outages.
 

blueone

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70% of the people in my neighborhood have solar and only complaints are that some installations where done more attractively than others and everyone who rented wishes they bought to get more savings. Those with backup batteries are really happy right now here in California because of outages.
Yeah, everyone I talk to is happy for the first few years, except one. My concern is about several years out.
 

Timcognito

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Yeah, everyone I talk to is happy for the first few years, except one. My concern is about several years out.
My system has a ten year warranty and based on 2 years of data and current utility rates will pay my investment back in 6-1/2 years from install. I guess Tesla could go under.
 

Marc v E

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Very unlikely.
I agree. If you look at the data and financials of Tesla, the biggest chance is that they will become one of the richest if not by far the richest company in the world somewhere between 2025 and 2030. Anyway this is somewhat off topic.

On the solar installs imo it's a great investment for people who don't like risk and see little return on investment in their bank accounts. Another discovery I recently did was that a modern airco with heatpump is a much better investment than a full scale heatpump if you look at ROI.
 

Timcognito

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I agree. If you look at the data and financials of Tesla, the biggest chance is that they will become one of the richest if not by far the richest company in the world somewhere between 2025 and 2030. Anyway this is somewhat off topic.

On the solar installs imo it's a great investment for people who don't like risk and see little return on investment in their bank accounts. Another discovery I recently did was that a modern airco with heatpump is a much better investment than a full scale heatpump if you look at ROI.
Why not both the US and California are helping both tax rebates.
 

Marc v E

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Why not both the US and California are helping both tax rebates.
I'm not that aware of tax rebates in the US as I live in the EU. In my country a heatpump costs about 18000 euros and has a ROI of about 15 years.
Solar panels around 6 years although the rebates are said to end in 2024 or thereabouts.
 
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